something on my hard drive --who wrote it?

[DivineSunshine]

Izzy,


HA!

Pay????? 

I pay, and pay , and pay....for ALL  his ridiculous crap!

Very, very funny---love it!

Thanks again for the advice.  Would LOVE to access his hard drives.  i think I could probably bury him with it.  I'll let ya know what I find out when I do.  it should prove to be interesting at the very least.  he has not tried the theatrics yet with me too much.  (He does enough stuff to "keep me in line" though.)  Covert is his style with manipulation and threats.  But he still thinks I am his little purring kitten right now, so.....I guess I am safe for a bit.  So much the poker face it is sickening most of the time!  For me. 

Bless you,

Sunny

[cats paw]

HI*
I've already sent this to Dr. Grossman to see if he wrote it.

What do you think? it has the word 'voicelessness' in the body of it!

The last line really got to me!

Love Izzy
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some people have walls that block them from being truly intimate or present in another's life. When those walls are encountered by the other person, and there is no desire or inclination, on their part. to understand it's cause or origin, the only choice is to close communication.

It is how one can effectively and callously render another voiceless.   

When there is no desire to try to understand because the quest is too uncomfortable, those who are closed off have a tendency to lash out or push the other person away.  Sometimes, sadly, permanently.

What has happened is that the person requesting "entry" has brushed up against an old scar, one that is still sensitive and the tragedy is that the choice is to protect the scar by inflicting wounds on the other person, rendering the other effectively silenced.

Incredibly hurtful, callous and careless behavior.

It takes immense courage to open yourself up, however small, to be honest about feelings.

To be rebuffed or silenced, rebuked, cast aside - now that is voicelessness.   

How horrible and terrible!  To say "ouch" and not be heard.  To be accused of pushing and wanting more than is available when the truth is the other is not able to give and unwilling to try.
 
Forcing someone who is not an N or abusive, who is trying to communicate to end communication by demand and giving that person no choice to accept it is ABUSIVE in and of itself.
 
I would add that you cannot relate to someone who cannot hear you when you are in pain.  It's actually a gift if they run away from you.

[cats paw]

Hey Izzy,

   Wanted to quote this but I hit send before I typed, but I can easily refer back because it's now right under where I'll be typing.  You said you wanted opinions first, and I told you I'd come back to this, so here I am.

   I can only really talk about this as it applies to myself and my mother.  I have a very hard time with this one, because I try to put myself in my shoes and in her shoes, and this one is hard because I started emotionally running away from my mother at a very early age.  Way back, when she habitually tried to tell me that our relationship was like it was because of me, and wanted to know what I was thinking, I thought she really wanted to hear me, and I tried to tell her how I had always felt so burdened by her emotionally for as long as I could remember.  She became rather haughty, and said that I never was responsible for her.  I would have liked to have heard even an impersonal apology- as in the pat- I'm sorry that you feel that way.

   Now, as I have struggled to set limits once again with her overwhelming needs, I feel like I'm the one running away from her when she "needs" me.  I'm an adult now, so I feel like I should (yeah- everyone I know- shoulding on myself) be able to find it in myself to try to meet some of her "needs" since she is end stage.

    But back to the last line that you said really got to you-  I'm not sure Izzy- am I giving my mother a gift?  Am I just too N myself  to just grow up already and try to be more giving?

    When my mother pulled a really good one on me for the last time ( it was approx 2 years after her bypass surgery) and I let myself get sucked in again by the same old thing that our relationship problems were due to me because I never confided in her, all I wanted to talk about was the weather, etc. etc. I confided in her, and she turned around and used it as a way to harm me.

     She could not believe that the havoc she caused came to light because she thought she could keep it under cover.  But she did give me a gift, however unintentional, because I realized shortly after the situation was exposed- that the relationship problems were not all my fault because it was not my doing that I could not trust her.

      I have forgiven her as in the sense of I seek no recompense.  But I want to try to make sure I am not unconsciously being sadistic by setting limits. The only way I know how to try to accomplish that is to try to stay self-aware.

      Izzy, I don't know if this helps you at all, but I know you have your own reasons that the whole piece, especially the last line , got to you, as you said.


cats paw

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi, Izzy--

I didn't write it.  It could be Jacmac's--she wrote some great stuff!

Best,

Richard

[isittoolate]

Thanks for responding, Richard,

and CP

I guessed you would be back!

I am going in circles with that last line

I would add that you cannot relate to someone who cannot hear you when you are in pain.  It's actually a gift if they run away from you.

I couldn’t see how hurt my daughter was, so she ran away!—with an N

So if I have been 'without feelings' all these years, my daughter could have read those signals back in her adolescence and teens, feeling unloved, becoming ripe for an N---and that was that.

My daughter couldn’t see how hurt I was, so I ran away---with an N

So if my daughter couldn't see how hurt I was, in spite of myself, I became ripe for an N--and that was that.

Ok Will leave that one circle for comments, should they appear.

Thanks
xx
Izzy

[DivineSunshine]

Izzy,

I am estranged from my mother recently and have never been able to see it this way---but for me---you hit some stuff that runs deep in our relationship.  I know a lot of the reason I ran from her (to an N) was because of her lack of feeling....and in some ways I have considered it my gift to her.  Now, to haave No Contact.  Weird, I have always felt guilty for feeling that way, but there's also some N damage from my NH that I did not want her to suffer any more.

Also, I have to spend so much of my time and energy dealing with the N I married (and the children), i have nothing left to give to that relationship anymore.  She is such that she would not hear me anway, though.  And so the cirle goes.  Voicelessness.  On both sides.  Sad, but so true.

Thanks for the new insight and sorry to hijack the thread earlier, this is an important topic and you have some really good thoughts here!

Take care,

Sunny