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Normal N behavior?

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Wildflower:
Hi el,

Glad you're finding the posts helpful!!  :)


--- Quote ---But for whatever reason, the reasoning of a N still is just beyond my grasp.
--- End quote ---


Don’t feel bad if it takes you a while to really feel like you’re starting to get your head around the thinking of an N because there's some difficult stuff to grapple with here.  So take your time and go easy on yourself (leave the N’s to do the beating up).  Many people here seem to have an instinctive sense that something is/was wrong, but aren’t able to really put a finger on the source of the problem because:

- N behavior is often impossible to believe

- N’s are very good at ‘tricking’ people (they have to be in order to keep people in their supply spheres)

- it’s painful to realize that you are nothing to an N, especially one you have tried to love or from whom you needed love

- these ideas are offensive to people who are able to care for others

- victim’s of N’s often feel a deep sense of shame for having failed the N, for having been taken advantage of by the N…I know there are others, but the power of shame is a new topic for me

These are just a few reasons I’m aware of, and maybe others have more to offer.  This isn't meant to be discouraging, by the way - just offering short cuts if I can. :wink:

On the subject of taking time, though, you may want to give your H some time, too, because he may be facing some of the same difficulties coming to terms with and finding better ways of dealing with his N family (sorry if someone else has already said that on the My Story thread).  Maybe you guys could even work on them together. :)


--- Quote ---Are you saying that a N is compelled to hurt people? Or is it just to extract supply? Are all N's sadistic?
--- End quote ---


I think Jacmac made a lot of valuable points in answer to this question, to which I just want to add this: They simply can’t see outside themselves.  Period.  They can’t ‘know’ anyone else except in relation to their own needs.  

To give a funny and straight-forward example, my grandmother used to tell me what my favorite foods were, and oddly enough, they were always what she happened to be serving that night.  I distinctly remember the night I learned that peas were my favorite food. :shock:   When I politely suggested that they weren’t, thinking maybe she’d gotten me confused with someone else (another big N thing), she helped me realize that I just didn’t remember that peas were my favorite.  :roll:  :lol:

Substitute peas with emotions and you’ve got a pretty scary dynamic – especially when it comes to children who are dependent on N’s.

Hope this helps.

Stay strong  :) ,
Wildflower

el123:
Jacmac,

Wow.  So much to think about. I really appreciate your post.  It explained what had been confusing to me about N's yesterday.  

" I think if an N really, really feels a high degree of self-loathing, s/he will not believe in anyway that a person can truly love him (her) so they will believe that you are lying (that you are acting, as they are). They will view all your motivations as suspect, which actually in their mind, justifies some of their behavior towards you."

It's sad.  Maybe this is one of the reason we put up with them in love situations.  We instinctively feel that they are hurting.  That's how I felt about my mother, at least.   I knew that she comes from a place of  deep pain and always as a child thought that I could love the pain away.  But it's been over thirty years and I'm still dealing with her abuse!  I've finally gotten to the point of accepting that she will not change.

"The more they hate their inner selves, the more sadistic they will be in an attempt to keep anyone from finding out, which is really ironic, because it is their capacity to hurt others without remorse which really gives them away"

Reading this gave me the creeps.  It's so scary to know that this is how they are.

"I remember telling an N I was involved, with who was complaining that I actually was hurting him by bringing up how he hurt me: "
"But that is how a human being is supposed to feel. Most human beings who hurt others feel bad when they do."

My MIL does this all the time!  She can do whatever she wants to people but God forbid if someone brings it up!  Thanks so much for your reply.
 
Wildflower, Thanks for your reply.  It's very comforting to know that there are others in the same situation as I am, that I'm not alone.  Not that I would want it for anyone, of course but it's hard when noone else seemed to get it.  I couldn't even get it.  That's why I am so glad that I found this site.  I can't stop reading the posts.  

"victim’s of N’s often feel a deep sense of shame for having failed the N, for having been taken advantage of by the N"

This is me.  I've always felt that there was something wrong with me.  That I wasn't good enough (although I never got into any trouble), smart enough (even though I was practically a straight A student), pretty enough (people tell me I'm attractive), etc.  It's so liberating to finally feel like maybe it was never about me to begin with.  Then that quickly changes to sadness "hey, it never was about me…"  I'm going through some deep emotions now.  

"On the subject of taking time, though, you may want to give your H some time, too, because he may be facing some of the same difficulties coming to terms with and finding better ways of dealing with his N family"  

 Yes, that's what I'm doing now.  I have much more compassion for his past behaviours now.  I know how insidious the grasp of a N can be.  And both his brother and mother are full blown classic N's.  He's working on boundary issues.  He's really trying so I have to hand it to him.  Two days ago he told his N mother that he needed a break from talking to her for a while as he was attempting to piece back his marriage.  She went through the same "I sacrificed my life for you" deal and then hung up on him.  He was very civil to her on the phone (I was standing next to him).  She had no reason to hang up.  Then yesterday, she called him (this is the DAY after he told her not to call, as he needed a break from her) at work.  He didn't pick up the phone when he saw that it was her number.  She left a message trying to make him feel bad about what he said the other day.  The fact that he did not call her back was a big step for him.  He's sticking to his boundaries with her!

" I distinctly remember the night I learned that peas were my favorite food.  When I politely suggested that they weren’t, thinking maybe she’d gotten me confused with someone else (another big N thing), she helped me realize that I just didn’t remember that peas were my favorite. "

Sounds like you are describing my mother!  Take care, -E.

rosencrantz:

--- Quote ---Then yesterday, she called him (this is the DAY after he told her not to call, as he needed a break from her) at work
--- End quote ---


Boy, have I been there!!!  She'll fight and spite him for it, so he needs to be prepared.  Mine had herself committed to hospital after a suicide threat in exactly those circumstances.  But she showed her true colours to the world in the process.  And it was the start of my freedom!!!  :shock:
R

seeker:
Hi El,

I must applaud you and your H on the progress you are making.   :D  Go, nonNs, go!  

The phone calls reminded me of my situation with N and husband.  I had approached N's H before, wanting to work it out, talk about why the relationship between our families was evaporating at the hands of his N wife.  He couldn't hear it.  Not until other members of our family all took giant steps backward, leaving him alone to deal with N by himself.  

Then he came to talk.  Boy, what a disappointment.  He still didn't care about how I might be feeling.  How all this was affecting everyone.  His agenda was to get people back on their "side".  Then, it was strange.  It was as though he started taking playing cards out of his pocket to see which line would "work" on me.  Almost like a guy going down the barstools with pickup lines to see which one would make him "lucky".  :roll:  

He started with Poor me.  And I would respond "yes, poor you.  hope things get better [without me]".  Okay, that didn't work.  Next line: Poor her.  "Yes, poor her.  I don't understand.  She needs to 'win'. OK, she wins."  Hmm.  Big bad parents. "That is between you and them.  Good luck."  OK, big sigh, the final card. Our poor children. "I like your kids.  They are not the issue.  N's behavior is. I wish them the best [without me]."

So I guess my point is, the more your husband can see that his mother and brother are simply playing games to rope him in to do their bidding, he can think objectively about it and not feel so bad.  It really is cause and effect.  Say no, expect static.  Remember to reward his efforts (nice dinner, perhaps?).  It isn't easy.  

Way to go, and good luck keeping the drawbridge up!  :wink: Seeker

el123:
Rosencrantz,  I cannot believe that your MIL committed herself to a hospital after a suicide threat!  Actually, on second thought, I can believe it!  My MIL has been threatening suicide for as long as my H can remember (and never attempted even once).  She uses it as a power tool.  It's really twisted.  It seems like we have similar MIL's.  Thanks for the reply.

Seeker,  I'm inspired by your ability to set and keep boundaries with your N's husband.  I am starting out on the road to keep boundaries with my MIL, brother and mother (all N's!!!).  It's hard for me but I'm doing it.

So I guess my point is, the more your husband can see that his mother and brother are simply playing games to rope him in to do their bidding, he can think objectively about it and not feel so bad. It really is cause and effect. Say no, expect static. Remember to reward his efforts (nice dinner, perhaps?). It isn't easy."  

Yes, I'm glad you said that instead of what a $%#@ my H is (and how I was thinking before I found this board and info on N's).  I've been very proud of him for what he's doing.   A nice dinner is a good idea actually (He loves when I cook just for him and not "family friendly" stuff).  Thanks for the reply!   -El

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