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who is the real N?

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write:
I wonder if he would be abusive to a stronger person... maybe I am just not strong enough to be his wife.

I don't think strength comes into it. In fact it was probably your strong capable qualities which attracted him. A narcissist is generally looking for someone who'll take care of anything and everything they might need!

No doubt he was charming and trying hard to please before you were married.

Part of you is probably reeling at the realisation of who he really is, and the loss of that dream.

With a narcissist you're damned if you do or if you don't- he wants someone to accept him but the very fact you do devalues you in his eyes because he knows himself as worthless, so you must be flawed...he wants someone who is important and talented but your every achievement will be an insult and a wound to him so he must constantly devalue it...and on and on, it's a continual projection to support his false self and avoid at all costs confronting his real self.

If you met one ideal he'd just shift ground to something else.

I see now with my h that he has transference, and many of the acting out episodes with me he was really engaged with his ( deceased ) mother. The rage and pain was about her not me.
i used to wonder what i had done to trigger such outbursts.

It's him who has the major problems, not you.
I like this quote: you didn't break him, you can't fix him.

Start looking after yourself.

pandora:
Hi Sjkravill,

How are you doing?  

I also went through a panic about "maybe I am the N!".  Sometimes it's easier to believe that the problem is US, rather than really see that we are being abused.  

Of course you aren't going to be emotionally open if you don't feel safe.  And if your H is really abusive, even if it is very subtle, it just adds to the abuse for him to expect this!   The question is WHY you don't feel safe - is it because of him and the way he treats you, or is it
due to other issues that have more to do with you?  

However, even if you do have issues with trust, etc. - and who doesn't - it is no excuse for his being abusive.  My H tried to tell me that my reactions to his behavior were all due to my own "unresolved family issues" - and I'm sure I have a few - but the truth is that the main thing I was reacting to was his crappy treatment.  So don't let your H gaslight you this way!

I found that reading books on verbal/emotional abuse and talking to other people, who were observers of my marriage, helped me see the truth.  It was truly devastating to realize that someone who had promised to love me was in fact beating me down.  I came pretty quickly to an intellectual understanding of what was happening, but dealing with it emotionally - well, that will take a lot longer.  

It sounds like you are right in the middle of this draining and painful
struggle.  I am so sorry that you have to go through this.  

After your semester ends, can you get away - visit a friend on your own, etc. - for a few days?  You may find that being apart from your H will give you clarity.  

Hang in there!  It can be very painful, but the truth really will set you free!

Pandora

Gingerpeach:
Hi Sjkravill,

I am hearing all of your pain as you describe how frightened you are of thinking that you are going insane and thinking that this is all in your head.

I am sorry for your pain but, this is a perfectly normal response to living with an N.  This is the healthy, sane part of you speaking out. Ns try to convince us, by means subtle and otherwise, that they are right no matter what they do and if you disagree with that, then YOU are wrong or are sick in the head.  The fact that you are in such turmoil means that the healthy part is fighting back very hard !  It's painful, but it's OKAY !  It means that you are alive in there, that the N has not "won," that you still DO have your sanity.

Look at it this way, if you actually bought whatever it is that the N is trying to sell you, you wouldn't mind so much, it would all be okay.  You wouldn't think you are crazy because you would agree with all of it.  It would feel normal.  Since it doesn't feel normal.....you are NOTcrazy !!

When I first started investigating Narcissism, I read that and although I understood what they were saying, it took nearly two years for me to internalize it, to really believe it and then to act upon it.  

When someone that you love and trust completely has you convinced that they mean well and love you too and wouldn't hurt you for the world, it's very difficult to believe otherwise. And since they are nice and loving half the time, it's just not obvious that they are hurting you.  And, on some level, I question whether Ns really INTEND harm, even though they inflict massive quantities of it.

I think that to a great extent, well, for some Ns anyway, they just CAN'T behave any other way.  The reasons they behave the way they do are rooted so primitively,  they would have to learn to eat and breathe differently too.  This is why it is so difficult, if not impossible,  for them to change.  

And, this is also where accepting that it is impossible for them to change, is so hard for non-Ns.  For me, I had to get all those physical symptoms, nearly to the point of non-function, before I could realize that it was poisonous, truly toxic for me to remain, and if I stayed, I was just committing a slow form of suicide.  I decided that I would rather live.

So, when you  

"wonder if he would be abusive to a stronger person... maybe I am just not strong enough to be his wife,"  

that's just not true.  Think how strong you must be that your self is fighting this so hard, so constantly.   A weak person woud have accepted all of it without question.  It is precisely your strength that is causing you this anguish.  Your strong, healthy self is fighting tooth and nail to stay alive and not be run over by the N bulldozer.

Like some of the others were saying, Ns just don't bother with weak people.  The reward isn't big enough for them.  They want validation from someone who "counts," someone powerful, someone smart.  And, unfortunately for Ns, if their significant other is strong enough and smart enough, they eventually will leave them.  It's a Catch 22 of sorts, which is why there never seems to be a win-win in any of these relationships.  Someone always loses. When I decided that it wasn't going to be me, was the day I decided to leave.

I smiled when I read of your "decoding one of his lies."  My NH told me the same thing....that I made him want to be a better person.  Same exact words !!  Now I know that THAT is a BIG RED FLAG !!  Hmmmm...... if that's true, then what kind of person ARE YOU NOW .....?

So Sjkravill, I send you positive thoughts and lots of concentration to get through the end of the semester.  I know that you will do fine because you are really very strong and very smart.  Would you be questioning any of this if you were not?  And I will chime in with the others and ask if you have somewhere to go for a breather (by yourself) when school is over?  All of this N battling is very tiring, among other things that is.....

kelly8893:
Take everyones advice!!! I know it is alot to take in but they are all right !!! Being with an N 24-7 is horribly taxing on a healthy or someone trying to be normal persons. They are really really really good at getting your defenses down and then they start the whole cycle over again. They can't help themselves and they never if ever, rarely change and if they do you would know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I wish I had more hope but that is just the way it is with an N.

Get out and mingle with other friends and take time for yourself, you will find that you are a great person and other people want to be with you and get to know you!! I was in a relationship with an N for 8 years and I am finding out that their world is not the same as our world. I like our world much better than theirs. :wink: Have a great weekend and get out and enjoy life!!
Kelly

Anonymous:
Again, I write tonight with immense gratitude for your compassionate, insightful posts.  

Indeed, I understand this behavior pattern intellectually, but I have SUCH a difficult time believing it with my heart, or really understanding the implications.  I don't know what or how long that will take. I still slip into and out of denile.

Last night he was on the topic of sex and intimacy, and asking what we should do to "fix" our relationship.  It felt like a trap (because I have answered his questions SO many times) This time I was able to be completely honest in suggesting a temporary separation.  I desparately need a safe space in which to heal, gather strength and insight.  It seems that I just cannot process things clearly when I am near him so much of the time. I explained that I have a deeply emotional/contemplative spirit, and it was important for me to have time and space to process the events of my life.

He said that he would not handle a separation well.  He said this would make him physically and emotionally sick...  It was out of the question. He said If I wanted a temporary separation, I might as well just leave him for good.  Besides we are not at a point where we need to be considering separation. There is so much else we can try, he said (he said that same thing when I begged him to go to counseling with me a year ago). Then he requested that I never mention separation again. (I guess now I know that he would not use the time to be introspective!)
This was followed by professions of his love for me, and promises to do ANYTHING to make things better between us... (apparently not separate temporarily even if it is for the sake of my/our health, and apparently not call a marriage counselor which he offered to do weeks ago when he suggested it... apparently not read and discuss any of the marriage books laying around the house...) Then there were his accusations of my expectations being too high, and questions about how much I really love him, and the expectation things are not going to be perfect and that not having sex only makes them worse.  Then came the disclaimer that his accusations were not really meant to be accusations, but instead just an expression of his feelings.

All of this was done very sweetly, and very sincerely by him.  I used as much reflective listening/accountability as I could muster.  This time I noticed the lack of evidence in his promises... I noticed him pushing his adgenda, without truly respecting my needs, even though he claimed to do just that.  Thanks in part to your help.  My coping skills come and go with this.  He seems to get to me late at night, when I am not thinking clearly anyway, when I have other work to do, when he knows I am too exhausted to deal with him.  I am not sure if this is intentional.  I tell him that I am exhausted, but he keeps pursuing his adgenda, and I feel obligated to put issues of marriage first.  

So, now I have no garuntee of enough safe space to contemplate, because I am not ready to leave the relationship completely.  I am going to try to get home with my family and friends for a couple of weeks this summer.  I am taking the summer off school/work.  So, maybe I will travel around and catch up with long distance friendships.  I have also been looking on-line at the possibility of taking a couple of days at a retreat center of some sort in the mean time.  I do have a therapist, but I think she may be getting tierd of telling me I am in an abusive relationship.

Thank you all... ever so much.  I really can't tell you how much your support, and the sharing of your experiences have given me encouragement, wisdom and strength.

Peace, sjkravill

(drats! I forgot to log in again!!!)

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