Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
who is the real N?
rosencrantz:
I don't think you've ever said anything to alert my 'N' antenna :-)
And if you're feeling confused right now, you can't possibly be an 'N'. Ns don't 'do' confusion!!!
When somebody else 'defines' you and it doesn't 'fit' your reality, you get confused if you try to make it fit.
Define yourself and then stick with your appraisal of who you are, what you intend and where you are going. And then repeat ad infinitum.
Don't seek different ways of saying it on the basis that 'perhaps' the other person hasn't understood (or to avoid conflict). Say it, know it and be it.
But in doing so, be aware that you are shaking their definition of who you are and they'll fight you and look for cracks in your armour. Give an inch and they take a mile.
It's a tough one if you decide to stay in the relationship. I can't stay intact around an N unless I get really tough on the outside to keep them out and keep reminding them of who I 'really' am - that is exhausting and you'll get worn down sooner or later.
How can anyone survive constant contact with an N??! Impossible. Will they change? Unlikely. The appearance of change is used to manipulate you into thinking its safe to relax your guard. Then, Zap! The pain and confusion cycle starts all over again.
R
Gingerpeach:
Dear Sjkravill,
Yes, I can identify with your story. You are not an N. An N would never ask for help on this board, nor would an N be concerned and worried that he might be an N. Partners of Ns often think that they are Ns because having lived with them, we start to act like them and think like them in order to survive.
You said,
"I read that keeping feelings and thoughts from a spouse is a form of abuse."
Yes, this can be abuse if you are keeping things from him in order to hurt him, trick him, or keep him confused. The fact is, you are doing this in order to protect yourself because when you do reveal yourself,
you said, " I didn't feel emotionally safe in sharing them with him…. when I told him everything, I always felt disrespected."
This is typical N behavior. They will take what you say in confidence and with all sincerity and then use it against you later….somehow….even if it sounds like love and concern. You have seen this happen, and so, you have learned to protect yourself by not revealing.
I am struck by how many times you used the word "power in describing these latest interactions. Good for you that you recognize this!!! So much of what occurs with Ns has to do with power and control. And believe me, it has nothing to do with you having any of it!! His accusing you of controlling him is pure projection, which is one of N's favorite mechanisms. Whenever he accuses you of anything, it means that HE is doing it to YOU.
When you said, "The conversation became so taxing and confusing, I felt exhausted and began to cry. I was sorry for having said anything at all,"
I wanted to wrap you up in a nice soft blanket and take you away to a safe place. I have been through this many times. It is very, very painful and is never resolved.
This is another way that Ns operate. They try to confuse you. They do something that is called "word salad" which is slightly changing the order of words or slightly changing the shades of the meaning of the words in order to confuse you or make them appear more right or make you appear ignorant or stupid or wrong. Non-Ns spend much time and energy trying to figure this out. What EXACTLY was it that I said, he said….? And you never will, because it is designed only to throw you off balance, not for honest communication. When you are off balance or confused or exhausted and crying, then the N has the control…..get it?
In some of your previous posts you expressed doubt that your husband is an N because he was so nice so much of the time. I understand that very well. My NH was extremely nice much of the time. They will go to great lengths to keep you there. Remember, they do not want to lose you. They want to control you. If they can get away with being mean or careless, they will behave that way. If you will not put up with that, then they will be nicer. When you are about to walk out the door, they will be sweeter than sickening and I believe you mentioned that too. And you didn't trust that either.
"What a delicate balance of power, " you said.
Yes….it will always be like that. Push. Pull. That is what it is like with an N. Always. There is always some sort of power game afoot. It is exhausting. It is debilitating. It is unhealthy.
And…..guess what? The rest of the world is not like that!! There are actually people out there that do not do that. People that really just want to share, to enjoy being with you, that do not want to control or capture you.
It is just a matter of recognizing that you are not willing to stay in a life that depletes you, that hurts you.
" I don't want to pour myself empty into a container with holes in it, " you said.
I used to say the same sort of thing……"he's a bottomless well…..it is never enough." And it never was, nor will it ever be.
You said that you were waiting for some books to arrive. In the meantime, here is a URL for an article on "Dealing With Manipulative People." It was a real eye-opener for me. My NH used to use ALL of these "techniques." As I wouldn't always fall for all of them all of the time, he used to go from one to the other, like going down a checklist until he found the one that worked.
It was actually scary reading that article because I almost wondered if he had read it and memorized it years ago. A sort of "Narcissist 'How To' Guide." Now, when I have to deal with him, I sometimes keep that article handy so I can pinpoint exactly what he is doing that is making me feel so uncomfortable. Here is the website:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html
Sjkravill, trust yourself. If you are feeling like something is not right…..it isn't right. It has been a year since I left my NH. Just now am I starting to feel like I am back in my body again. I am feeling free of the "fog." Trust how YOU feel.
Anonymous:
*deep sigh* thank you all so much for be reflecting with me, for validating my experience, for giving me your wisdom. ..
my H just took me in his arms, stroked my hair and told me how much he loves me, how wonderful I am... how when we drive to Atlanta next weekend for the Cubs game, we should get a room with a jacuzzi tub....
I felt my stomach tighten. I was feeling uncomfortable with his perfectly loving touch. I thought, "if he tries to unhook my braw I will jump out of my skin." Then,"he is not going to do that, he knows I don't want that, why am I so anxious?" The last thing on earth I want is a room with a jacuzzi tub so that I can feel guilty for resisting while the reformed sinner tries to rekindle the sexual relationship. Or worse, I'll give in.
I started to feel so guilty for feeling so repulsed, so on edge. I felt guilty, thinking "I may never feel comfortable with my husband again, no matter what he does to win me back." I thought this marriage is going to come undone, and it's going to be my fault.
Then... I said I had to do some work. I came out and read your posts (and the VERY helpful URL on manipulation). What a mixture of sickness and relief. Relief that I am not going INSANE or becoming an N.... for that I am SO greatful! And sickness, because well, this kind of truth really will make one sick. No matter what, I will be the one to blame, I am irrational, crazy, mean spirited, you name it.... He will be the one who loves me so dearly and just wants ME to be happy (puke!) You all know the story so well. This is so insidious, so subtle. Thank you for helping me so many times already, thank you! thank you! thank you! I can never express how much your stories help me. They all resonated so deeply.
I decoded another one of his lies today... The other night he told me that I am the only person who has "made him want to be a better man." As I thought about that, I remembered several stories he had told me from his growing up where he'd had a "touch stone" sort of moment with his insensitivity and promised himself that he would change. The odd thing with him is that he innoculates me with a tiny bit of truth so that I believe his lies. I believe he is self aware and until much later when I realize his good intentions are all in his mind. Alas, he is not in touch with his selfish intentions.
He has questioned me about having an affair twice... Some people have suggested that he is projecting. I dare not ask... It can't be true.
Sometimes I feel like I am dying inside, being crushed, but I can't point to why. I still have plenty of moments when I think "this is somehow all in my head" I am really not being emotionally abused.... I am so awful for thinking that it's true. Am I going completely insane?! He has stopped playing the obviously sadistic games at my request.... maybe he has moved to less obvious games.
I wonder if he would be abusive to a stronger person... maybe I am just not strong enough to be his wife. I will have more time to think about it in about 3 weeks when the semester is over.
sjkravill:
ahh! I forgot to log in... that was me (sjkravill) incase it doesn't appear.
Wildflower:
--- Quote ---I wonder if he would be abusive to a stronger person... maybe I am just not strong enough to be his wife. I will have more time to think about it in about 3 weeks when the semester is over.
--- End quote ---
The short answer is no, it really doesn't matter how strong you are. It simply doesn't matter WHO you are.
I was telling one of my closest friends about my recent 'discoveries' about my mother treating me like her N mother. I was so, so paranoid and felt so guilty - like I might as well be wearing a red sign on my head that said "I'm the messed up one torturing my poor parents with crazy accusations and theories." All this stuff really is so unbelievable, insidious and sickening sometimes. :( But he surprised me. :D Someone who's not completely immersed in N literature was able to see how, by being strong for my mother (and in my own life), she might be confusing me with her mother - who was strong in a different way: strong and powerful - too powerful to resist being crushed. She couldn't tell the difference, and he saw this immediately. :) I didn't :wink: :roll:
What I'm trying to say is that if you were strong, you'd be beaten down in a different way. So don't even think about worrying that you don't have the right personality to deal with this situation. :wink: There just isn't one.
Wildflower
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