Do you defend your NC decision to others?

[NewMe]

Dear Friends,

I've been NC with my Nmom since Christmas . . . in a nutshell,  I tentatively started to set boundaries so she wouldn't dominate me any more with her demands on my time, attention and money. And true to form, she reacted with violent outrage and anger, and "cancelled" Christmas . . . she would not see my children (her only grandchildren), would not exchange gifts with me, etc. Since then, I have stuck to my guns--I will not be treated like a dog by my own mother.

But here's one of the problems I'm facing . . . Mom has launched a smear campaign about me all over town, accusing my gentle, loving husband of controlling and abusing me, saying I'm an alcoholic and I drink too much coffee (I have maybe three glasses of wine a week . . . but the coffee part is true *g*) . . . and she's throwing all sorts of lies around to make ME look like an evil, ungrateful daughter.  My husband and children and I are going to move as soon as we can.  HOWEVER . . .

two of my aunts (her sisters) have called me and left messages asking for my side of the story. And a very good friend (who actually happens to be my parents' lawyer) has asked me for my side of the story.

I feel exhasuted at the thought of trying to explain narcissism to these women, and I am certain in my heart that they'll want to argue and tell me "deep down your Mom really loves you" . . . it is clear to me that they would like to act as negotiators or mediators in what they see as a relationship problem.  I also feel angry at the thought that I have to defend myself . . . I have the feeling of being regarded as guilty until I can prove myself innocent.

So I'm not sure what to tell them. I've wasted so much of my life thinking about my mother, trying to please her, worrying about her, fearing her . . . I don't want to convince anyone of anything.

Have any of you faced this sort of situation, in which people want you to explain yourself, but you know it won't do any good?

[camper]

Don't label her.  You just did a great job telling us how you feel about what your mom does and how you needed to set boundaries.  Tell them the same thing leaving out the term "N".  If some of these people said to your mom that you said she was an "N", that would make things really bad. 

Bravo to those who want to hear your side of the story!  It shows they just aren't buying her accusations. 

[Stormchild]

Fantastic input from all above.

People recoil from 'labels' until they've experienced the legitimate need for them in their own lives... which is usually too late to do you much good.

As all above have suggested, describe the behaviors, assert your right to behave like a sensible adult [without putting it in those terms, since that's labeling yourself!] and let them draw their own conclusions.

The fact that these people are checking in with you suggests that they're capable of detached consideration of the facts. This is phenomenal, since most Ns surround themselves with yes-people and eNablers and effectively lead little N gangs. Perhaps, it's truer to say that they ultimately drive off anyone who isn't an enabler... but the end result is the same.

Be cautious with the lawyer, and say nothing that isn't a simple summation of fact. Truth is the ultimate defense against accusations of defamation, so don't interpret anything to him, or anyone else. Let them draw their own conclusions. The lawyer may have been asked to revise an existing will - he may be trying to avoid being used to help an N abuse you from the grave. If you speak only facts, you'll help him immensely. And, if he's really good, really ethical, and in a strong position with regard to your parents, he may well be able to point out to your mother that SHE is defaming YOU, and this could have unpleasant legal consequences for HER. But don't go there. Leave that up to him, and God. It will be a beneficial side effect, if it occurs at all.

Speaking for myself: I don't defend, I explain. The facts usually provide all the defense I need.

Hope this helps,

[Stormchild]

Oh, Ami.

Stuck with an N therapist mother from hell.

Who knows all the buzzwords and all the credible poses, and all the ways to pathologize you with her own projections.

I'm so sorry.

((((((((((Ami))))))))))

Knowledge is power, and it's also a pretty good shield, once you have enough of it. Be encouraged - you're not alone!

[debkor]

Oh Ami, Ami, Ami,


You are so very smart.  You have a handle on everything. You know exactly what is going on. Now it's the pain of going through it but you are so wise and strong.

Thought I would just let you know that.  Vulnerable Ami is not so vulnerable eh!  Mom was Not right and Ami is saying No again just like with the hitching story. 

They don't look so scary anymore do they when you find out just how weak they really are?  You were just a kid when they could mind control and shape you in to what they thought they could make you be/feel. 

So mom cannot always be right cause look at you go Ami, 

Cheering you on in your healing.

Love
Deb

[NewMe]

Thank you, dear friends, for all these wonderful responses! I'm at work right now so I can't read as carefully as I'd like, but I'm going to share these with my husband later tonight at home.

Dearest Ami . . . love to you, and I will pray that the times you feel good will become longer and more frequent as you (we) get through these situations!!!

[JanetLG]

Hi NewMe and Ami in particular...

I have 'lurked' on this forum before, but felt the need to come back today, after what happened the past week, and this thread caught my eye.

I started No Contact with my NMum 13 years ago, and, despite her (and my NClone sister) trying hard  to get me to 'admit how awful I've been' and 'make up' etc, etc, I've stuck to my guns, with help from my wonderful husband.

Lately, though, my mum's latest 'boyfriend' (in his seventies, as she is, now - I'm 44) has taken it upon himself to keep contacting me by letter, enclosing childhood photos of me in 'happier times' as he puts it (!), a genealogy chart (to 'prove' what I'm losing by 'cutting myself off'), etc.

After having NC for so long, I was gradually getting myself back together, after having a horrendous childhood where I had anorexia for 12 years, with my weight being 5 1/2 stone most of the time.

This bloke's contact is bringing it all up again, though. BUT - do I explain it all to him, or tell him to ****** off? Me and my husband tried the first way, and we got a letter back saying he was 'shocked' by our tone, and that he'd 'decided never to speak to us again'. Great, we thought. But, as with all enablers, he's as bad as her, and doesn't stick to his word, so he's at it again. After all these years, it still makes me tearful to have to explain to strangers exactly what it is that made me make such a serious decision. That's the bit that gets me. Can't they see that NO-ONE makes that kind of decision lightly, so it MUST be something serious that caused it to get to that point? My family seem to be telling him that the only reason I'm continuing 'thif farce' is that I'm crazy and stubborn, and that EVENTUALLY I'll come round to agreeing to see them again.

What my hausband has trouble understanding, though, is that if they think I'm so awful, why do they still want me back? Just to carry on as before I suppose. But I'm not prepared to be a punchbag any more, and none of you should be, either.

I agree that using the term Narcissistic doesn't help at all with anyone connected with them - N's have an abhorrence of any mental illness, and would just refute completely the idea that THEY might have a mental illness themselves!

The only advice I can give to others, I think, is that even if other people don't understand your reasons for doing it, given time, it DOES get a lot better once you cut off contact fom the N. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone else if you don't want to, just because they've asked for an explanation. Parent or not, they don't have the right to treat you so badly, and you have every right to a happy life.  If that means one without them, then fine, so be it. It was their behavious that caused it, not yours.

Sorry this post has gone on a bit... it's been one of thse weeks!

Love to all survivors on here,

Janet

[Margo]

Dear Friends,

I've been NC with my Nmom since Christmas . . . in a nutshell,  I tentatively started to set boundaries so she wouldn't dominate me any more with her demands on my time, attention and money. And true to form, she reacted with violent outrage and anger, and "cancelled" Christmas . . . she would not see my children (her only grandchildren), would not exchange gifts with me, etc. Since then, I have stuck to my guns--I will not be treated like a dog by my own mother.

But here's one of the problems I'm facing . . . Mom has launched a smear campaign about me all over town, accusing my gentle, loving husband of controlling and abusing me, saying I'm an alcoholic and I drink too much coffee (I have maybe three glasses of wine a week . . . but the coffee part is true *g*) . . . and she's throwing all sorts of lies around to make ME look like an evil, ungrateful daughter.  My husband and children and I are going to move as soon as we can.  HOWEVER . . .

two of my aunts (her sisters) have called me and left messages asking for my side of the story. And a very good friend (who actually happens to be my parents' lawyer) has asked me for my side of the story.

I feel exhasuted at the thought of trying to explain narcissism to these women, and I am certain in my heart that they'll want to argue and tell me "deep down your Mom really loves you" . . . it is clear to me that they would like to act as negotiators or mediators in what they see as a relationship problem.  I also feel angry at the thought that I have to defend myself . . . I have the feeling of being regarded as guilty until I can prove myself innocent.

So I'm not sure what to tell them. I've wasted so much of my life thinking about my mother, trying to please her, worrying about her, fearing her . . . I don't want to convince anyone of anything.

Have any of you faced this sort of situation, in which people want you to explain yourself, but you know it won't do any good?

Back when I was thinking more clearly.... I would have given you the advice NOT to try to explain the situation to outsiders.  They'll only tell you how much your Nmother cares and try to get you to see things her way.

If you're going to move anyway...... just sidestep them and don't waste your time engaging in that frustration.  Margo

[JanetLG]

Bean,

Thanks for saying my post was eloquent - but, having read it over just now, I think it might have been better without the spelling mistakes (I was typing too fast, I think).

I think it really is very rude of people to ask why anyone doesn't speak to/ever see/visit someone else. It's just none of their business. The main thing is, just because they've asked, you don't have to answer them. When I was talking to my husband about this tonight, he reckoned one response would be to say to the enquirer 'And how many times have you had sex in the past month?' If they object to telling you something that is *that* private, then you could say 'Well, there you are then - you have things you don't want to discuss, and so have I.'

Might not work every time, but it might make them think twice!

I haven't got any children, and when I first meet people, (especially women), one of the first questions is often 'how many children have you got?'. To some people, saying 'none' stumps them, and they reply with 'why not?', which I find as personal to have to reply to as this topic - it's just none of their business, but they have no idea that it might be really miserable for me to have to talk about something that is just between me and my husband, really.

You have to practice some stock answers, I think, until you are comfortable just reeling them out when you get asked why you're not 'best buddies' with your N. It might not be the *actual* truth, but it will end the conversation quicker.

Bean, I think your comment about finding out more about psychology is a good one. That's the sort of thing I meant by a 'stock answer'. A statement, rather than a defensive explanation, is what I think we have to aim at memorising! Have you read the book 'The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defence' by Suzette Haden Elgin? It's out of print, now, I think (came out in the eighties), but it's a brilliant book, aimed at women who've been in abusive relationships, and teaches you new ways of responding to verbally abusive people without getting caught up in futile arguments.

Does that make sense? Hope so!

[towrite]

What I wouldn't have given for even one person who asked me for my side of the story!  Esp. when my NFather had marshalled all his legal resources to have me grabbed by the sheriff and locked in the state hospital.

I do understand your exhaustion.

towrite

[axa]

Janet,

I know at this stage if I got any post/contact from XN I would not even read it just throw it in the bin unopened.  I do not need anyone invading my space with Nstuff any more........... do you recognise the writing on the envelopes, my guess is that you don't need to read this rubbish.

axa

[JanetLG]

axa,

No, I didn't recognise the writing on the envelope this time, although before when this man has written, he's used a printer with a strange fault that skews some of the letters, so I'm aware that it's him before I open them. I run a mail order business, so I get lots of post, addressed to me by my name, as that's also my business name, so it's difficult to separate business from personal mail. It's such a shock to be first opening letters that say 'please send me a catalogue' and then the next one that says 'you are making your mother very ill by refusing to see her'. It's just such a pain to have to deal with all this, SO LONG (13 years now) after I started NC with her.  I do get *less* upset than I did when I receive things in the post now, but I so wish that I could feel *nothing*.

My husband has offered to 'vet' all my post, but that seems excessive, especially as it can go several weeks or months, even, between letters, and we get complacent, I suppose.