Forgiveness

[micheal]

Michael, that is an interesting viewpoint.  I have heard about the speculation that John and Elijah are one in the same but scholars are still speculating on that one.  Not sure I would call it "reincarnation". 

As for Heaven, have you read the book of Revelation?  If you have, is the bible the inspired Word of God for you?  In Rev., John is on the island of Patmos, he receives a revelation from Jesus Christ.  Jesus asks John to write down everthing he sees.  In Chapter 4, it starts out...Then as I looked, I saw a door standing oen in HEAVEN.   Then in Chapter 5 John sees a scroll in the right hand of the one who was sitting on the throne.  Then we jump to Chapter 7 where the JW's understand that only 144,000 will get into heaven.  This chapter is when the 6th seal was opened.  this is where the seal of God gets placed on the foreheads of the 144,00.  Verse 9-17 says, After this I saw a vast crowd, to great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and ganguage, standing in fromt of the throne and before the Lamb.  Then v. 13, Then one of the 24 elders asked me, "who are these who are clothed in white?  Where did they come from?"  And I said to him, "Sir, you are the one who knows.  Then he said to me, These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. 

That is why they stand in front of God's Throne
and serve him day and night in his Temple and he who sits on the throne
will give them shelter, they will never again be hungry or thirsty;
they will never be scorched by the heat of the sun.
for the Lamb on the throne will be their Shepherd.
He will lead them to springs of life-giving water.
And God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Now in Chapter 8, the seventh seal is broken.  I am going to jump past where God's people ascended up to God to the part that would describe hell during the end times.  Verse 7, The first angel blew his trumpet, and heail and fire mixed with blood were thrown down on the earth.  One-third of the earth was set on fire....The second angel blew his trumpet and a great mountain of fire was thrown into the sea...Then the third angel blew his trumpet and a great star fell from the sky, burning like a torch....the name of the start was Bitterness.  Then the fourth angel blew his trumpet, and one-third of the sun was struck, and one-third of the moon, and one-third of the stars, and they became dark....   then Ch. 12 V. 12 says Therefore, rewjoice, O heavens!  And you who live in the heavens, rejoice!  But terror will come on the earth and the sea, for the devil has come down to you in great anger, knowing that he has little time.  chapter 16  lists God's wrath.Those that worshiped idols  got horrible sores.  Those that didn't repent were burned by a blast of heat, those that followed the devil (the kingdom of the throne of the best) were plunged into darkness. 

I could go on and on but in the end...Chapter 20, v 15, And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the second death.  You die in this world and are put in a grave.  the grave then gives up its dead (second death).  Verse 14.  How does reincarnation fit into this?  We only die once until God sends us to heaven or hell.  Ch. 21, v 8 says, But coward, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars-their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  this is the second death

There is a hell!  I would want to be sure that my name was in the Book of Life!  I for one am not going to take a chance by listening to someone tell me there is no hell. 

Hope that helps you understand where I am coming from.  Christianity is pure and simple....follow the bible.  You can only follow the bible after you have salvation and receive the Holy Spirit.  It is only with the Holy Spirit that you can understand the bible.  You need the Holy Spirit!

elsewhere on damnation not being eternal..i have mentioned the site tentmaker.org

and in terms of the book of revelation
i suggest this book
Commentary on the Revelation: A Commentary Based on a Study of Twenty-Four Psychic Discourses  more books like this
by Edgar Cayce

later hopefully i will get more into detail on these matters here in this thread...

[WRITE]

hopefully i will get more into detail on these matters here  in this thread...

or you could start a thread?

It is only with the Holy Spirit that you can understand the bible.  You need the Holy Spirit!

no, I think we can interpret the Bible as with anything else variously, and what Christians call the holy spirit is G_d and present in more than just the Bible and more than just Christianity.

What religions need is forgiveness that life is not absolute.

As I've gotten older I've noticed some of the things that used to make the least sense to me have turned out to be the most profoundly true.

true to me
or true to you-
no guarantee
of 'this is true'....

I have believed for a long time now that we are each called variously because it is the balance of G_d. We are not meant to see just the church, the religion, the ritual, the symbols....but the spirit behind them.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

if we believe in G_d then it all must be 'fulfil'.

Matthew 5 ends

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

perfect is 'teleios'- wanting nothing to be completed; heaven is 'ouranos' or Uranus....the limit of knowledge at that time.

[Hopalong]

thanks for that translation, Write.

I like to think of "Be ye perfect" as "Be ye complete"

Hops