Author Topic: How do know if someone is narsistic?  (Read 33001 times)

hope

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How do know if someone is narsistic?
« on: May 19, 2007, 08:45:38 PM »
I am not sure if my husband has something wrong with him, or if I do, or if I am the horrible person he discribes me to be. I feel like ONE of us is crazy. People who have spent substantial time around us in our home make comments about how he treats one of my sons and how insensitive or rude he is to me. However, they don't see the worst of it. He says the most horrible things about me behind my back to people. He doesn't seem to have much positive to say about my oldest son either (age 6). Even when I inform him of something great that our son accomplished, he seems to struggle just to get the words..."good". or "really, hmmm". He repeats how he wants our marriage to be "fixed" but "has no idea how to do that. He claims he has "tried every" but, he hasn't even done the simpliest things (like saying goodbye when leaving in the morning, saying hello when arriving home, etc. I could give many examples of what I feel is emotional cruelity, but that probably isn't neccessary.

I was just wondering if there is something that will give me an idea of whether or not he has a problem. Whether that problem is "treatable", whether I should "stick it out" and support him in his treatment if he does find out that he needs it or what? I am confused. I can say, when he is not around for while, it feels like I have "walked out of the darkness" and my children begin to behave much better (to the point that friends, family and teachers and church members start complimenting me on the "drastic" behavior change.

I would appreciate any comments.

Thanks
Hope

hope

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 09:09:11 PM »
Thank you Ami. Tears of relief just uncontrollably ran down my face. To think that someone understands, feels like I have been given some validation. My husband is very intelligent. He has most people (our friends...or I should say...his friends, my former friends) believing that I am a nut. One person even went as far as to tell him that I was probably boardline personality disorder or a closet alcholic. None of which is even remotely true. I am not a drinker, I have an ocassional glass of wine or two every other month or so. And I have had a pchsycologist (whom I went to because my husband had me thinking "I" was mentally unstable. I have been told that I am not, that I have the typical symptoms of a victum of domestic violence) verify that I do not have any tye of personality disorder certainly not BPD.

I still struggle about what to do. But, will take your advice, thank you.

Hope

debkor

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 10:13:13 PM »
Hiya Hope

Welcome

Read all the post and everything you can on Narcissist.  Have you seen a therapist together with your husband?  That may be a great start for you. If your H does not want to go then go for yourself.

Your not crazy Hope.  Your feelings are real and not unlike many of ours here on this board.  One of the things that happened to us all is we became confused to what was really going on until we questioned and felt just like you are feeling now.

You will find lots of support on here.  Talk away,ask, suggest, Rant anything you want to say feel comfortable to say it.
We are listening and supporting.

Love
Deb

Hopalong

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 11:56:40 PM »
Welcome, Hope...

I am so sorry that your marriage has been so awful for you.

I am hoping, truly, that you willl find the strength to take your life back.

It does not belong to him. It is not his to ruin.

Glad you're here.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

hope

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 01:00:04 AM »
Deb,

I have been going to a pychologist for months. My husband would not go. I start taking my son because of behavior problems. I wanted to take him a year earlier but my husband was against it. I finally started taking him anyway. That was feb a year ago.

My husband has been ordered to go to "counseling", however, it is at some free clinic thing and I would think a dr. with a great reputation would be more helpful. My husband IS emotionally abusive. i am not sure why, but I would like to know whether it is deliberate or not; whether it is "fixable" or not. Or whether in order to "save" my self and my kids, I need to plan my own life and forget about him. I feel sorry for him a lot, yet he is horribly cruel to me. There are reasons people act the way they do. If his is that he is a mean spirited person, then I need to run. Intuitively, I believe that there is something wrong and that he is torn up inside. I think he doesn't want anyone to know. So, he says those horrible things about me so that he looks "pale in comparison". On the other hand, while I may be willing to put up with a lot as far as his actions towards me. I can not deal with the way he treats my son. It is so sad to watch his little face when his father says some mean hateful thing to him.

Anyway, thank you.

Thanks to Hops also

michael

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 03:36:59 AM »
hi hope ..a newbie...
here is some stuff about narcissists that i think might be helpful
first some new theory that i have started a thread of post on here.....
proposed new theory on understanding narcissists
« on: May 16, 2007, 06:51:24 AM »
We propose a dynamic self-regulatory processing model of narcissism and review supporting evidence. The model casts narcissism in terms of motivated self-construction, in that the narcissist's self is shaped by the dynamic interaction of cognitive and affective intrapersonal processes and interpersonal self-regulatory strategies that are played out in the social arena. A grandiose yet vulnerable self-concept appears to underlie the chronic goal of obtaining continuous external self-affirmation. Because narcissists are insensitive to others' concerns and social constraints and view others as inferior, their self-regulatory efforts often are counterproductive and ultimately prevent the positive feedback that they seek-thus undermining the self they are trying to create and maintain. We draw connections between this model and other processing models in personality and employ these models to further elucidate the construct of narcissism. Reconceptualizing narcissism as a self-regulatory processing system promises to resolve many of its apparent paradoxes, because by understanding how narcissistic cognition, affect, and motivation interrelate, their internal subjective logic and coherence come into focus
I AM NOT ONE OF THE WE  in the  WE PROPOSE:)

some other stuff is at this url link
http://www.apsu.edu/oconnort/3420/3420lect04.htm
here is some of what is said there on narcissism
Narcissism is a less severe form of psychopathic disorder. It manifests aggressive, paranoid, and borderline characteristics, but more commonly appears in the form of envy, greed, power lust, an extensively rationalized sense of entitlement, and a pathological grandiose self. Unlike psychopaths, narcissists can experience loyalty and guilt; but like psychopaths, narcissists lack empathy or caring for others, viewing people as "playthings" to be used. Female narcissists tend to be the kind that "sleep" their way to the top; male narcissists tend to get ahead by becoming involved in massive power struggles. Psychologists suspect that the cause of narcissism is severe mental or physical pain in childhood at the hands of a powerful, idealized mother-father figure.  Inconsistent parental attitudes on aggression and self-assertion as well as childhood experiences of being valued for specific, precocious talents seem to be the prime determinants. They never learned who to identify with -- the aggressor or victim, and they developed a pragmatic philosophy of siding with winners, regardless of who was in the right or wrong. In fact, they believe that the "good" is usually changeable and fickle while "bad" is stable and predictable. They live life by idealizing those who satisfy their narcissistic needs and systematically devaluing and denigrating those who do not. Underneath their superficial charm, they feel they have a right to control, manipulate, exploit, and be cruel to others.

Narcissism is a relative newcomer to the list of mental disorders. It was not fully defined until the late 80s. There's not much research proving narcissists are more prone to violence than any other group, and no one has a clue as to how widespread this particular personality disorder is - estimates range between 3 and 15% of the population, with 5-7% being a fair estimate. Being a narcissist is close to being an alcoholic but MUCH more so. Alcoholism is impulsive behavior. Narcissists have this plus hundreds of other problems. Narcissists frequently have uncontrollable behaviors, like rage which is an outcome of their grandiosity. Narcissists can rarely be cured, but side effects, associated disorders (such as OCD), pathological lying, and the paranoiac dimensions CAN be modified.

A full-blown narcissistic disorder would be inconsistent with sustainable leadership, so effective leaders can only be expected to have a touch or hint of it.  Some of the more "minor" psychological characteristics associated with a touch of narcissism include the mechanisms of externalization and splitting.  Externalization is reliance on finding an outside enemy to blame; e.g., "It's not us; it's them....They are the cause of our problems."  Splitting is the process that a damaged self-concept engages in when they are particularly ashamed of something in their background; e.g., coming from a broken home, having had a good deal go wrong in their lives.  A personality who engages in splitting tends to see other people as all good or as all bad.  Such individuals will have a hard time exiting the groups they join, and likewise, in ever forgiving their enemies. 




poetprose

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2007, 07:05:48 AM »
>>A personality who engages in splitting tends to see other people as all good or as all bad.  <<<<

So does a person with N disorder view all things all the time through this good or bad view? or is it only sometimes they see it like that, I guess what I am wondering is if it is episodic or constantly seeing it like that ?

axa

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2007, 07:30:30 AM »
Hope,

Welcome here, glad you are seeing someone.  Keep posting and reading...... there is a wealth of knowledge here.

axa

michael

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2007, 08:59:02 AM »
>>A personality who engages in splitting tends to see other people as all good or as all bad.  <<<<

So does a person with N disorder view all things all the time through this good or bad view? or is it only sometimes they see it like that, I guess what I am wondering is if it is episodic or constantly seeing it like that ?

the splitting of good or bad that a borderline does i think could be one of the prime distinctions from the way a narcissist does it...
the narcissist has a better organized agenda for doing the splitting
the borderline is more impulsive and volatile

debkor

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2007, 10:43:45 AM »
Hope,

I'm so sorry you and your children are going through this. It's hard and very very confusing.  It's good you and your son are going for therapy.

As far as your husband maybe having  traits or being a Narcissist?  I don't know? Have you spoken to your therapist or has he said anything about it? To me it sounds very much so like he could possibly be.

Are they fixable? Personally I would say no.  My T tended to think they can get better (but) think about how many years they have been this way is about how many years it would take for them to get better (if they could or would even want to).  I would not invest anymore time then I already had (I was drained and starved of emotion) I ran.   One thing I can tell you is (you) cannot fix them. You will get broken in the long run so will your children.  Save yourself and your kids and yes if you are not ready to leave him still have a plan if and when you decide to do so, if you do.  There is nothing wrong with that or thinking that way.  Your a protector of your children. Thank God for you.

I had found this list on another web site and posted it before.  It is done very simply. 
Does anything on here sound like what your H does?

Quote
20 Traits of Malignant Narcissism

1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skillfully deceptive and very convincing. Avoids accountability by diverting topics, dodging questions, and making up new lies, bluffs or threats when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements. Constant chaos and diverting from reality is their chosen environment.
Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Do not reveal anything about yourself - he'll use it against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies.

2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim.
Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard any agreement. Have Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally.

3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successfully plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to have iron-fisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer leaves them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom.
Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies

4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support.
Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own.

5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. Blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection.
Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. He made the mess let him clean it up.

6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST is a wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others.
Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters.

7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skillful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing.
Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out.

8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise.
Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No.

9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He fakes integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. He will very much enjoy the double-dipping attention he gets by cheating. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy.
Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator.

10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can,

11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie.
Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder.

12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so.
Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible.

13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak.
Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them.

14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark.
Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No.

15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment.
Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence.

16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home.
Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems.

17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable.
Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals.

18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals.
Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you.

19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning.
Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others.

20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives.
Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Journal past abusive behavior to remind yourself. Join a support group
Quote

Love
Deb


michael

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Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2007, 11:00:23 AM »
Hope,

I'm so sorry you and your children are going through this. It's hard and very very confusing.  It's good you and your son are going for therapy.

As far as your husband maybe having  traits or being a Narcissist?  I don't know? Have you spoken to your therapist or has he said anything about it? To me it sounds very much so like he could possibly be.

Are they fixable? Personally I would say no.  My T tended to think they can get better (but) think about how many years they have been this way is about how many years it would take for them to get better (if they could or would even want to).  I would not invest anymore time then I already had (I was drained and starved of emotion) I ran.   One thing I can tell you is (you) cannot fix them. You will get broken in the long run so will your children.  Save yourself and your kids and yes if you are not ready to leave him still have a plan if and when you decide to do so, if you do.  There is nothing wrong with that or thinking that way.  Your a protector of your children. Thank God for you.

I had found this list on another web site and posted it before.  It is done very simply. 
Does anything on here sound like what your H does?

Quote
20 Traits of Malignant Narcissism

1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skillfully deceptive and very convincing. Avoids accountability by diverting topics, dodging questions, and making up new lies, bluffs or threats when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements. Constant chaos and diverting from reality is their chosen environment.
Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Do not reveal anything about yourself - he'll use it against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies.

2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim.
Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard any agreement. Have Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally.

3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successfully plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to have iron-fisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer leaves them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom.
Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies

4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support.
Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own.

5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. Blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection.
Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. He made the mess let him clean it up.

6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST is a wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others.
Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters.

7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skillful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing.
Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out.

8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise.
Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No.

9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He fakes integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. He will very much enjoy the double-dipping attention he gets by cheating. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy.
Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator.

10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can,

11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie.
Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder.

12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so.
Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible.

13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak.
Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them.

14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark.
Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No.

15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment.
Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence.

16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home.
Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems.

17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable.
Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals.

18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals.
Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you.

19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning.
Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others.

20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives.
Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Journal past abusive behavior to remind yourself. Join a support group
Quote

Love
Deb



INTERESTING TYPES OF PERSONALITY DISORDERS AND WARNINGS AND ADVICE
BUT I AM NOT SO SURE TECHNICALLY THEY ARE ALL NARCISSISTS OR PSYCHOPATHS
BUT WITH SOME TRAITS THEREOF AND PROBABLY MANY FIT BETTER UNDER OTHER TYPES OF DISORDERS

michael

  • Guest
Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2007, 11:42:43 AM »
Hope,

I'm so sorry you and your children are going through this. It's hard and very very confusing.  It's good you and your son are going for therapy.

As far as your husband maybe having  traits or being a Narcissist?  I don't know? Have you spoken to your therapist or has he said anything about it? To me it sounds very much so like he could possibly be.

Are they fixable? Personally I would say no.  My T tended to think they can get better (but) think about how many years they have been this way is about how many years it would take for them to get better (if they could or would even want to).  I would not invest anymore time then I already had (I was drained and starved of emotion) I ran.   One thing I can tell you is (you) cannot fix them. You will get broken in the long run so will your children.  Save yourself and your kids and yes if you are not ready to leave him still have a plan if and when you decide to do so, if you do.  There is nothing wrong with that or thinking that way.  Your a protector of your children. Thank God for you.

I had found this list on another web site and posted it before.  It is done very simply. 
Does anything on here sound like what your H does?

Quote
20 Traits of Malignant Narcissism

1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skillfully deceptive and very convincing. Avoids accountability by diverting topics, dodging questions, and making up new lies, bluffs or threats when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements. Constant chaos and diverting from reality is their chosen environment.
Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Do not reveal anything about yourself - he'll use it against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies.

2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim.
Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard any agreement. Have Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally.

3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successfully plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to have iron-fisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer leaves them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom.
Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies

4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support.
Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own.

5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. Blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection.
Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. He made the mess let him clean it up.

6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST is a wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others.
Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters.

7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skillful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing.
Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out.

8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise.
Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No.

9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He fakes integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. He will very much enjoy the double-dipping attention he gets by cheating. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy.
Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator.

10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can,

11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie.
Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder.

12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so.
Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible.

13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak.
Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them.

14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark.
Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No.

15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment.
Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence.

16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home.
Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems.

17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable.
Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals.

18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals.
Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you.

19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning.
Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others.

20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives.
Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Journal past abusive behavior to remind yourself. Join a support group
Quote

Love
Deb



WHAT MIGHT BE SAID IS THAT THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE AND ITS FALLEN NATURE HAS A CONNECTION WITH NARCISSISM
WHERE THE FAULTS OF SELF ARE DENIED OR EXCUSED OR NOT DEALT WITH AS FULLY AS THEY SHOULD BE...
for some it does not reach the degree of being a personality disorder...
but still there remains a self ambivalence about success and self doubt...
what makes the narcissist or psychopath is some aspects of their method of avoiding self doubt
and playing others self doubt that determines whether it is of that type of disorder
or better considered under another type of disorder

Portia

  • Guest
Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2007, 07:39:01 AM »
Hope, hello.

You said

Quote
My husband IS emotionally abusive. i am not sure why, but I would like to know whether it is deliberate or not; whether it is "fixable" or not. 


Whether it is fixable or not, only he can decide to address it. You can't do it for him, or to him. Like alcoholics - it has to come from them. It's not your job or responsibility to fix him Hope, it's your responsibility to look at that statement - he is emotionally abusive - and keep that in your mind. What would you advise a close friend to do, if they said that to you?

Quote
I can not deal with the way he treats my son. It is so sad to watch his little face when his father says some mean hateful thing to him.

Again, if a close friend said this, how would you feel?

Glad you posted Hope.

camper

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 09:31:24 AM »
Hi Hope!  Welcome!!  I also went to a T because I thought I needed to get fixed as I was making my H miserable with my dysfunction.  I was also told it wasn't me.  As it turns out, my H is an "N".  He projects his dysfunction onto me.  Everything is my fault.  His dad never affirmed him.  He needs affirmation from me...like you would do with a child.  No matter how much I give him, it would never be enough.  His need becomes my failure and dysfunction.  His entitlements become my being rebelliousnous. 

Hope, you are doing the right thing by trying to protect your son.  He needs your love and protection.  The people on this forum are wonderful friends!  You will learn so much from them.  So glad to have you here! :D

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: How do know if someone is narsistic?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 11:46:57 AM »
Quote
How do know if someone is narsistic?

This ones pretty easy. Go down to your local psychiatric hospital supply store and go to the men's clothing section. They have these white suits with extra long sleeves that wrap around back and buckle in the front. Have it gift wrapped and give it to him after a nice romantic dinner.
Now if he's the typical man he'll put it on with great pleasure thinking you've got some weird bedroom game in mind.
If he's an N he'll jump up on the chandelier and start screaming that not only are you crazy the whole world is and he's the only sane person left.

mud