Author Topic: Ns being nice  (Read 3272 times)

gratitude28

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Ns being nice
« on: May 31, 2007, 09:36:11 PM »
I was reading Kelly's post and I realized this has been a big topic for me... and part of the reason I get so confused with this disorder. It does seem Ns do nice things at times and that they are almost not on an agenda.
When my mother started on anti depressants, for a while she would talk to me and say she loved me and she was proud of me. And it sounded like she meant it.
Once in a while she writes a nice letter or says a kind thing.
I almost wish she wouldn't do these things, because it just makes me more upset. I start to feel like I make it up... and then we get back to normal behavior. And, the truth is, I don't want her to be nice because I really just want to flat-out dislike her.
What is your take on this?????? Why do they do this sometimes?????
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Stormchild

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 09:52:15 PM »
*****CYNICISM***** *****CYNICISM***** *****CYNICISM***** READ WITH CAUTION

it's part of gaslighting and fostering dependence. it keeps you off balance and gets you to doubt your own judgment. it creates false hope.

yes, i do think it's possible for an N to change. but: the indicator of true change in an N is that they realize they've been N, and they're absolutely appalled, horrified, mortified by what they have been and done, and THEY ARE WILLING TO FACE THAT AND BEAR IT. If they've reached this point, then their niceness can be regarded as the making of amends, because there is less likely to be an ulterior motive behind it.

Nicey-nice from an N, without that moment of truth and the willingness to face themselves for what they are, is nothing more than bait.

*****CYNICISM***** *****CYNICISM***** *****CYNICISM***** READ WITH CAUTION
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Overcomer

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 10:07:22 PM »
I wish I understood what gas lighting means-can you explain it?  You are right about being off balance-I do not know what to think.  She has been known to throw me a crumb-but this is a big crumb-it could be a way for her to get me to stop looking for jobs-that would make sense.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Stormchild

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 10:08:15 PM »
OMG KELLY THAT'S IT THAT'S IT!

She's trying to get you to quit looking for another job! That's it!!!!!!!!!!
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

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Stormchild

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 10:14:56 PM »
Kelly, here is a link to a super post by Dazed1. When you get this post on screen, do a search for the word 'gaslighting' on the page. Excellent description of exactly what it is...

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3876.msg62027#msg62027
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Hopalong

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 10:52:42 PM »
CB, you are a drink of cool water for the fevered brain.

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God gets the credit and he also gets to figure out the other person's character.  All I do is say "thanks".

You have SO much grace and maturity, for a person who is so recently out of the NNNNNuclear crucible.

My admiration deepens and I'm piling it on with a shovel for REAL.

Hops
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Confounded

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 12:17:35 AM »
This is an interesting topic.  Why are they nice?  I find myself thinking about HOW they are nice.  In my experience, they tend to perform acts of service.  They DO things.  I think that they do this in order to try to keep things on an even keel, and feel good about themselves.  I realize that each person is different, and even each N is different.

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Some people are not N'ish unless they are backed into a particular corner that triggers them--and then they go for the throat.  The fact that they only do it occasionally doesn't make them less dangerous.

My H is diagnosed with N tendencies, not full-blown NPD.  He does all sorts of things for me.  Brings me OJ and coffee often in the mornings.  Makes meals lots of the time.  Cleans up.  Does lots of things around the house and yard.  So his actions are very kind, much of the time.

But his words...  Horrible.  He will actually DO all these things for me, or us (the house and yard items), and then COMPLAIN about it and try to make me feel bad.  I have told him this makes no sense.  I say that if he does all these things, and then complains endlessly, it's as if he did nothing.  The pleasure of having his help is negated by the unpleasantness of his griping.  It's a wash.  Just as if he had done nothing.  I don't think that he is able to stop himself from complaining.

You all are really helping me.  I don't mix it up with him anymore.  In an argument, he becomes irrational to the point where I have ask him if he's being serious or joking.    I have lived most of my life around lawyers, and arguments are not a reason to get all worked up, IMO.  You just present your best case, and in the end somebody stands corrected, or else you have to agree to disagree.  But if you get all furious and stupid, make absurd generalizations, etc., you forfeit.  Loser.  Say that to my H, and you can make him super-angry.  It's like pushing a button and watching him dance.  But I have stopped doing that.  I have stopped arguing with him.  Thank you.

It's very weird because, as noted elsewhere, they really want respect.  But their tactics are so bizare that over a period of time they lose the respect that they had.  They inadvertently work against their own objectives.  I think they're nice to try to do something to gain back some ground, having lost so much in ways that they really can't figure out.  It must be so strange, living in a total of such total denial.  I watched our T listen to H talk the other day.  The T's mouth was hanging open in astonishment, and he's one of those super-T's that are hard to get in to see.  He has that kind of background where they understand really odd motivations, like the pros on TV crime dramas that can tell you all about the criminal who would do a certain crime.  H was astounding our super-T.  But H would say it didn't happen that way.  He'd say that's just the way I'm spinning it.  Funny about denial.  It is the ultimate defense, because nothing else matters.

I do feel sorry for H.  Anyway, I'm trying to just appreciate the things he does that are nice, not argue with him, treat him as well as I can, and work on my own personal growth.

gratitude28

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 12:46:33 AM »
CB, I grabbed a shovel too! I agree 100% with Hops!!!!!!!!!

Confounded,
You brought up SO MANY good points here, but I am too beat and scatterbrained to address them all. Yes... they do seem to work against themselves... and they are puzzled when they do something wrong. They just DON'T GET IT and they never will, I fear. If they do something nice, they tell everyone about it for ages (I can assure you an N didn't come up with Random Acts of Kindness)... And, like you pointed out... they complain so much about anything they do that it is not worth asking them to do anything. I am not sure when I realized I did this (long ago, maybe at 20), but I used to do things and then bitch about it. (Green, this goes back to N traits...). Someone pointed out to me (and I am so grateful they did and I HEARD what they said) that if you do something for someone, that's it. You do it, you did it, it's done. I never complain anymore. If I offered, that's that.

Thanks again for the posts (((((((((((((((((my good friends)))))))))))))))))
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McGirl

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 12:55:45 AM »
Hi all,

I've had a different experience with N Niceness. Like almost martyrdom. Doing it as a victim, and not complaining per se,but getting grumpy and making everybody wish they hadn't asked for you to help. Almost as if to say, "see I never complain. I'm so above it all", but meanwhile you will never ask for their help again because you felt a palpable bad air in the room.

McGirl


axa

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 04:36:35 AM »
Well, I know what I experienced and what I experienced was that when XN was "nice" to me it was part of the grooming to set me up for another fall.  Everything about them is in their own interest.  The "niceness" causes confusion and they one starts doubting oneself...maybe they are not so bad.... maybe I misread something.... maybe I am too demanding.  BULL, there is always a motive and it is always about themselves.  THEY WANT SOMETHING FROM YOU.

BEWARE THE N'S NICENESS.


Axa

lighter

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 06:49:20 AM »
I agree.  It's easier to have the truth than to be gaslighted into doubting your feelings and reality. 

I'd much rather be in full blown war, and know it, than be stabbed in the back by the one hand and soothed by the other hand of my N.

But that's the genius of gaslighting.  Keeping nice people nice while they wage an underhanded war designed to tear us apart from the inside out. 

And they don't give it a second thought.  I don't know whether to truly pity them or be more horrified, if it's possible to be.

As long as they feel good and are getting what they like.  As long as they feel they're not at risk for losing any small control. 


Green

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 11:55:15 AM »
This thread is so interesting. It seems to me there is a big (but subtle) difference between:

1) a real N who is resentful and makes you wish you had never asked the N for help; they try to make it seem like they are doing you a huge favor with strings attached, martyrdom, creating bad air, etc.

and

2) someone with Nspots or some learned dysfunctional behavior (including yours truly here) who also stomp around resentful just because they were too weak/scared/voiceless to say, "you know what, I really just don't want to wash the dishes right now.  I'm tired and need to take care of me right now."

#1 will likely never change, while #2 can learn  if the light bulb of understanding goes off.  It can be very hard to tell #1 and #2 apart without a lot of work.

Just my 2cents

Green

SilverLining

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 01:36:19 PM »
I was reading Kelly's post and I realized this has been a big topic for me... and part of the reason I get so confused with this disorder. It does seem Ns do nice things at times and that they are almost not on an agenda.


This reminds me of saying I heard somewhere: Even Hitler reached down and petted a dog once in awhile.  :)

I'm glad you brought this up because it's definitely been an issue for me.  I have come to realize my dealings with my father consist of 100's of minor negative interactions,  with an occasional positive gesture, such as a material gift.  It's as if he's trying to make up for being an a-hole most of the time.  My place in the game (along with the other members of the FOO) is to focus on the positive gestures and forget about the daily round of insults and abuses.   It has been hard to see through the game, because most of the incidents with my father are minor.   The problem is the sheer volume of small negative interactions and subtle abuses.

It may happen because all but the most dysfunctional people  have some consciousness of what is going on.    I suspect my father understands that the outcomes of his way of relating do not work, but he just doesn't quite see why, and for whatever reason can't control his day to day behavior.   

Hopalong

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 03:33:53 PM »
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(I can assure you an N didn't come up with Random Acts of Kindness)

 :lol: :lol:

Beth. You are a stitch!

thanks,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Sally

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Re: Ns being nice
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 03:58:58 PM »
This is such a relevant topic and I think it goes to the heart of having a relationship with an N (whether the N is your parent/love/spouse).

When they are nice, we get really confused and start wondering "what's going on?"  "what's the N's motivation?".  This is so sad:  We can't just accept someone being nice or kind  to us without feeling suspicious.  Perhaps this suspicion is why I have such difficulties in my personal relationships:  Why can't I just say "thank you" and not feel guilty or suspect that payback is due?  My suspicion and guilt feelings are huge distractions and detriments to having a "normal" relationship.

But, maybe I'm being naieve?  Isn't there always a payback?  Am I asking for something for nothing?

Love,
Sally