Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
healing
Wildflower:
Hi R,
I’m glad you came back and posted this. I was a bit worried about you. I’m sorry that I’ve been the cause of pain for you, but I’m so relieved that there’s a silver lining for you (bubble popping).
--- Quote ---But I just felt so AWFUL that you were thinking that's what I intended to say. And it felt like every time I tried to tell you that's not what I was saying, somehow you heard something EVEN WORSE! I felt absolute DESPAIR!!! As well as panic and all the rest.
--- End quote ---
Me, too, R. I felt awfult that I was causing you so much distress. And every attempt I made to clarify myself just backfired. I'm hoping this time will be different?
--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---I now feel as though you think I'm just a child who doesn't get it, and the real reason you didn't listen to me is that you didn't think I had anything of value to add to our discussions
--- End quote ---
Gosh, what painful honestly. You said that you heard me say that this had 'changed'. But I never said that or implied that at all, in the first place or ever. So it couldn't have changed. That just wasn't what I was trying to say. It's so completely 'not' what I was saying. I can't emphasise enough that it's not what I was saying.
--- End quote ---
I believe you, R. Maybe sometime when things have cooled down I can explain how I got here (if it even matters by then). But for now, I believe you.
--- Quote ---But I can't know where you're coming from
--- End quote ---
On my way home tonight, a bit bewildered by how you can’t see why I might have gotten so upset after all my attempts to explain myself, it dawned on me that perhaps it’s because we come from two very different flavors of N households. Your mother smothered you and didn’t give you a minute to have your own emotions or anything. I wondered if feeling ignored might be a welcome relief for you – not your worst fear and most powerful demon. But in my house, I was ignored. I watched Amelie again on Monday night and in the beginning, Amelie is a child being given a check-up by her father who’s a doctor of some sort. Amelie is so deprived of attention from her father and longs so much for any human contact with him, that whenever he listens to her heart, it’s racing with excitement. So her father thinks she has a heart condition!!
Well, that’s just about how desperate for attention I was growing up. Mom picked me up when she needed me, and then threw me back in the corner with the rest of her toys when she didn’t. Whenever she was giving me attention, I tried so hard to be my best, but she couldn’t see me. Not at all. She saw many people (many she hated), but not me. She misunderstood me completely – and not just in that misunderstood teenager way. She completely misunderstood me from the time I was born. She recently told me that I had always been strong and determined - even when I was a baby. (I am, but it’s because I’ve had to be in order to survive – and this “strength” has even led to panic attacks and other stress-related problems.) She told me that she used to watch me in my crib getting so frustrated when I couldn’t lift my head but she could “tell” that I was determined to find a way to do it. Did it occur to her that maybe that look on my face was frustration as a result of having no help? That I needed help because I hadn’t yet developed the muscles I needed to be able to lift my head? Uh, no.
Actually, mom has all kinds of ‘definitions’ of me that are based on who I was forced to be in order to survive. I’ve been shedding them like crazy lately, but every now and then, I slip back. But I digress...
--- Quote ---something I said tripped a wire, pressed an unexpected button. And now I wonder if you'll ever 'hear' me, who I am, because I got the impression somewhere somehow that you'd actually felt these things for some time and it had all suddenly burst forth.
--- End quote ---
Maybe if I explain what happened from where I sit? Maybe it’ll make sense? Maybe we can compare notes? Before I set out on this path, though, please know that I have every hope that once we can find some common understanding here. So…
Back when you were upset after RG shut down the threads, I reached out to you because I sensed that you were used to being the helper, but not used to being helped. I sensed it because I identify with it. Or rather, that used to be a big problem for me. I really don’t think I have a problem with people helping me anymore (you may see differently, but let me hint that I have a problem with being talked down to, not being helped. But I’ll get to that later if you're interested).
Anyway, when I reached out to you at that time, I got no reply, and you started new threads. I considered the idea that what I was saying might be upsetting you, but what made me finally back off was the idea that I was preventing you from reaching your own answers by blocking off paths for you (putting up barriers at the end of your threads). Now, I realized that this might be way off, so I sent you a pm saying I felt I was chasing you around and not being very helpful, so I was going to back off – so you would understand why I wasn’t responding anymore.
Then I noticed that you were responding (well) to CG and Portia. So I thought, hey. Cool. She’s got support. Doesn’t happen to be me, but that’s not why I’m here, is it? So I went on my way, responding occasionally but all the while knowing that CG and Portia made more sense to you. I felt a bit excluded when you listed the members of your elite support group, but again, this isn’t a place for cliques – or getting feathers ruffled over them. Nevertheless, I was relieved and happy to find out you did consider me to be among those who gave you support – in whatever way I had.
So, I kept all this in mind when you were upset on the anniversary of your father’s death. I offered what support I had knowing that you would take it or leave it (most likely leave it), and some of what I said was even picked up and rephrased by CG and Portia. Cool. I did feel a bit ignored, to be sure, but I’ve learned to explain away that feeling because I know I’m sensitive to it and can't really expect anyone to reassure me all the time. So when you said,
--- Quote ---Dear Wildflower. If I say there's nothing you could say that could hurt me, does it mean to you that I'm not listening? I'm listening.
--- End quote ---
I thought, wow, am I sending out those signals and she’s picking up on them? Well, I hope not, but in any case, it’s nice of her to think of me – and reassure me – without me having to ask. :D I even felt good about NOT letting my weakness about feeling ignored get the best of me.
So when you said to me on Monday that you HAD been ignoring me (OUCH) :shock: , and not only that but it was because of something I was doing (as opposed to how you were perceiving me) (YIKES) :shock: , and not only that but hinted at the idea that EVERYONE might feel this way :shock: :shock: :shock: , it hurt big time. As you, yourself put it:
--- Quote ---I 'naturally' take responsibility for everything that goes wrong and have to be quite 'sharp' in being aware that I'm not!!!
--- End quote ---
This is exactly what I was trying to relate in my delegation story – in an effort to explain how easily (as an ACON, my responsibility, but still) I was thrown into self-doubt when it was suggested that being ignored was my fault.
And of course I was forced into a new (and painful – I was being ignored after all!!) understanding of why you hadn’t been responding to my posts. :cry: :cry: :cry:
There’s no way you could have known all this about me R, because I’m the only one sitting in my skin. And I’m not angry with you anymore because I know you never meant to upset me. But on a voicelessness forum, can you see why being told that you're being ignored might be very painful?
So, may I?
--- Quote ---something I said tripped a wire, pressed an unexpected button.
But I can't know where you're coming from
--- End quote ---
This is why I am careful with people I don’t know - because I don’t know what their worst fears are. I don’t know whether what I have to say is helpful or actually very hurtful. That’s why I feel I can say that I have gotten to the bottom of my irrational fear of hurting people, all while continuing to be very careful with people. Yes, I reach out. But speaking my mind isn’t always a top priority to me. Making sure I’m not saying something that, from someone else’s point of view, is destructive – often is. This is different from protecting people from reality, which I try not to do - carefully.
Furthermore, this is all part of my desire to understand people – in a way I never was. And it's something I’ve had to reclaim, because for so long I was lashing out and too defensive (and in too much pain) to ‘see’ or ‘hear’ people. Now, there may be problems with this desire to understand people, but right now, it’s not hurting me. It actually helps me in many ways, but I'll save that for another time, if the subject happens to come up. Can you take my word for it though?
--- Quote ---And now I wonder if you'll ever 'hear' me, who I am
--- End quote ---
So, in answer to this, I want to hear/understand you. I may not now, but I want to. We're very different, R. I feel like we certainly share some questions and answers and experiences, but we're coming from different places. And I hope by telling you all this here, you can hear me a little more clearly, even if you don't agree with me.
All my best,
Wildflower
Anonymous:
Hi guys,
Not wantin' to cut across/into/out any of these workin's between Wildflower and Rosencrantz, but it's had me thinkin' about how I've related to people and read, interpreted and reacted to things people have said to me over the decades. When I was younger I used to be so LOUD. A real 'in your face' type.
Hard to believe, isn't it. hahahahahahaahahahaahahaah
It kept people 'at bay' though. That's how I protected myself. Then I became more considered, cause I had to, and I read lot's of books about conflict resolution, communication skills, blaah blaaah blaah. I can still react 'LOUD' (believe it or not) hahahaahahahahaha when threatened or embarrassed or feeling challenged. But it's usually mixed up now with thoughts like " What I think I'm hearing this person saying may only be my wonky antennae again."
It's not so much self- doubt, or maybe it is. :shock: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.
Reminds me of the joke, " I never doubt myself, hmmm, at least I don't think I do." :?
But back in my gung-ho days, in public for example. I often have a razor quick wit, and tongue when strangers attempt to embarrass me. One day a couple of years ago, I was tired, had my period, just wanted to go to bed for the day. But I remember I had to go to the bank.
I parked the car, got out, kids in tow, and had to walk past some coucil guys doin' road works. The guys wolf-whistled at me and carried on like 2 bob watches. One guy yelled out, "Hey love, come over here and sit on my face?" I shouted back, didn't even think about what I was goin' to say, but loud-for-loud, out came "Okay, I'll be back in a min, and it's just the right time of the month too." The guy who shouted went bright red-faced and the others guys laughed and laughed so much at him. I just stuck my head up high and kept walkin'.
Then I had to walk back past them. I eyeballed them and laughed at them and said something even cruder about how he'd be even more red-faced when I got through with him. Yuuuuuk!!
That's sort of not relevant here because I didn't know those men, but that's what I used to be like. I had a smart-arsed answer for everybody. Now, I still think them, they pop into my head all the time, but more often than not, I don't say them as much.
I used to be so rough on people. Way too rough. But now I've gone the other way. It's not that I'm afraid to hurt people. Maybe that's a small part of it. I don't know yet clearly, but I do know it 's got a lot to do with this. That I want to be able to control what I say and to be the one in control of my responses to others.
I don't have a problem with the situation I quoted above, with the council workers and would probably still do the same today, cause he was bloody rude, that bloke. But I used to be like that most of the time, and inappropriately. Some here may say I still am. And I'd probably reply , "Can it Jacko, at least there's a cure for my problem. What the F**k are you gonna do???" :wink:
It was my technique for keeping people in line if they were getting too personal when I don't want them to, or I think they are hurting me. Cutting and embarrassing them the hell out of them.
Like one time in a pub I was working in, a regular (alcho) customer who was a retired cop and a real smart arse, was sitting at his usual table with all of his old mates called me back to the table. He said he had something he wanted to show me. I said "What?" He started makin' out like he was undoin' his pants. I casually said as I turned and walked away, "Oh you men, you're always kiddin' yourselves thinkin' you've got a big one. I've never met a woman who couldn't always take just that little bit more!" and laughed at him and walked away. His mates went into hysterics and he was sooooo embarrassed. They talked about it for ages and he never smart-arsed me again.
So I guess some of us have found our ways to communicate and protect ourselves in many ways. I've come from the point of being too brutal with humour, and try now to be more considerate and respectful. Rosencrantz, you seem to have come from the opposite world of being 'too considerate'.
Anyway, there's a real brief summary on my communication history with strangers. That's one reason why I've never suffered never bein' invited to parties and stuff. My friends wouldn't dream of having a party without me cause they see me as good entertainment value.
But with my friends and family I'm different. I get brain-freeze and then can spend hours and days tryin' to work out the under-lyin' meanin's to what ever was said that disturbed me. I often can't think of quick or even slow come back or response. I get so caught up in tryin' to make sure I'm on the right ground first, that I often don't get to have my say at all.
And then for days and weeks I'm sayin' to myself, "Why didn't I say this, or that" and I think of the appropriate sometimes even brilliant repsonse way too late :( damn!!!
I have laways used humour to deflect attention, stop people from getting to close. The class clown, popular as hell, even with the teachers. I think nobody ever dreamed to check on me to see if I was alright, cause I was always crackin' jokes and happy and makin' people laugh.
But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance. I'm sort of the poor man's Billy Connelly. I love that guy. Hmmm, that'll do for now, I'm combing the recipe books to see what I'm gonna make for dinner on Satdy nite. Tossin' up on attemptin' the Chateaubriand that reads really easy to do in a totally cool 70's recipe book I got at an op-shop last week. I've cooked a couple of fantastic dishes out of it that surprised me how easy they were. The person who put this book together "Good Housekeeping Big Winter Cook-Book"" has made it all so fool-proof, so I'm game. But I think I'll buy the mustard hollandaise, I couldn't be bothered makin' that.
Thanks for letting me rave, oh yeah, ps, you know I can't be funny if I have to be. My husband had this gross habit of always telling people how funny I was, so they'd meet me and he'd say "Go on tell them about the time you did such and such." BALAAAAAAAH.
I couldn't make a funny if my life depended on it. I can't do it if I have to. A friend/business associate I had once asked to help out on some radio jingles. The guy wanted some humour in his radio ads. He thought I was the funniest person he'd ever met. (Probably 'cause he was always chasin' me round his office- building with a hard-on. Crackin' jokes was how I used to deflect him, it's pretty hard to keep a hard-on when you're laughin' your head off.) But I couldn't come up with one funny line in the meetings. Yet back in the car or at lunch with him they were flying out of my mouth like I was blowin' raspberries. I ended up sayin' to him, you'll just have to follw me around with a cassette player, and keep sexually harrassin' me, then we'll get these f**kin' ads done, and then I'm outta here. Aaaaaargh. :wink:
(((HIG)))
CG
Wildflower:
Heh. And as a PS. I'm so frickin' earnest when I'm tryin to make a point. Sheesh. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ahhhhh, but you haven't seen the mischievous side of me. Bwahahahaha.....
Can I say, CG, that you remind me so much of a friend I had in high school? She was always so much cooler than me, but she still kept me in tow anyhows... :D We used to get kicked outta class all the time, and boy did she have a blast pestering the uptight boys. :D
(((HIGS)))
Wildflower
Anonymous:
Hey, Wildflower, Portia and Rosencrantz, not wanting to deviate from your new post Wildflower, but did you see the 'statistics' post. hahahahahahahaha. Gee I laughed. I found myself wasting my time initially wondering what the poster's point was. :?
You know, of course I immediately went all suspicious and defensive thinkin' stuff like "What is she or he trying to say here. :x ?" "Is this a cheap guilt trip?"
But then I knew what it was for :idea: and so I printed it out, and YES, I found it really useful. :D Not to heavy, not to light, just right. Firm and not too harsh. Perfect, it was just what I needed, cause I'd run out of loo paper and had been holdin' off on havin' that big crap I just had :D :D
(((HIG)))
PS, thank goodness I didn't have the thick glossy KODAK photo quality paper in my printer, or it would have slid halfway up my back and cost me 2 bucks a wipe. hahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahaha.
CG
Wildflower:
--- Quote ---But then I knew what it was for and so I printed it out, and YES, I found it really useful. Not to heavy, not to light, just right. Firm and not too harsh. Perfect, it was just what I needed, cause I'd run out of loo paper and had been holdin' off on havin' that big crap I just had
--- End quote ---
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahaha
Wildflower
P.S. - That's ANOTHER post, CG. Better keep up. :lol:
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