Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
healing
Wildflower:
Hey R,
Gosh, maybe I didn't need to put up my earlier post at the top of this page, but it seems like there's some useful explanation in there in case this still makes zero sense.
Simple, simple answer to why I got so upset in the first place:
If you had said, "I was ignoring you, but I'm sorry. I see now why I was ignoring you, but in the future I'll probably listen to you more." I could have handled it. Maybe you could have shared with me what prevented you from hearing me at that point, too, and I'd have been able to deal with it - maybe even adjust when posting to you.
I simply couldn't deal with the idea that it was my fault that you ignored me - and that everyone else might be, too. THAT'S why I got so upset, because I'm sorry R. It's not true. People don't ignore me. And even if they do, how can you know why? And I can't help how you read my posts anymore than you can know where another person's coming from.
Wildflower
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: Anonymous ---Hi guys,
Not wantin' to cut across/into/out any of these workin's between Wildflower and Rosencrantz, but it's had me thinkin' about how I've related to people and read, interpreted and reacted to things people have said to me over the decades. When I was younger I used to be so LOUD. A real 'in your face' type.
Hard to believe, isn't it. hahahahahahaahahahaahahaah
It kept people 'at bay' though. That's how I protected myself. Then I became more considered, cause I had to, and I read lot's of books about conflict resolution, communication skills, blaah blaaah blaah. I can still react 'LOUD' (believe it or not) hahahaahahahahaha when threatened or embarrassed or feeling challenged. But it's usually mixed up now with thoughts like " What I think I'm hearing this person saying may only be my wonky antennae again."
It's not so much self- doubt, or maybe it is. :shock: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.
Reminds me of the joke, " I never doubt myself, hmmm, at least I don't think I do." :?
But back in my gung-ho days, in public for example. I often have a razor quick wit, and tongue when strangers attempt to embarrass me. One day a couple of years ago, I was tired, had my period, just wanted to go to bed for the day. But I remember I had to go to the bank.
I parked the car, got out, kids in tow, and had to walk past some coucil guys doin' road works. The guys wolf-whistled at me and carried on like 2 bob watches. One guy yelled out, "Hey love, come over here and sit on my face?" I shouted back, didn't even think about what I was goin' to say, but loud-for-loud, out came "Okay, I'll be back in a min, and it's just the right time of the month too." The guy who shouted went bright red-faced and the others guys laughed and laughed so much at him. I just stuck my head up high and kept walkin'.
Then I had to walk back past them. I eyeballed them and laughed at them and said something even cruder about how he'd be even more red-faced when I got through with him. Yuuuuuk!!
That's sort of not relevant here because I didn't know those men, but that's what I used to be like. I had a smart-arsed answer for everybody. Now, I still think them, they pop into my head all the time, but more often than not, I don't say them as much.
I used to be so rough on people. Way too rough. But now I've gone the other way. It's not that I'm afraid to hurt people. Maybe that's a small part of it. I don't know yet clearly, but I do know it 's got a lot to do with this. That I want to be able to control what I say and to be the one in control of my responses to others.
I don't have a problem with the situation I quoted above, with the council workers and would probably still do the same today, cause he was bloody rude, that bloke. But I used to be like that most of the time, and inappropriately. Some here may say I still am. And I'd probably reply , "Can it Jacko, at least there's a cure for my problem. What the F**k are you gonna do???" :wink:
It was my technique for keeping people in line if they were getting too personal when I don't want them to, or I think they are hurting me. Cutting and embarrassing them the hell out of them.
Like one time in a pub I was working in, a regular (alcho) customer who was a retired cop and a real smart arse, was sitting at his usual table with all of his old mates called me back to the table. He said he had something he wanted to show me. I said "What?" He started makin' out like he was undoin' his pants. I casually said as I turned and walked away, "Oh you men, you're always kiddin' yourselves thinkin' you've got a big one. I've never met a woman who couldn't always take just that little bit more!" and laughed at him and walked away. His mates went into hysterics and he was sooooo embarrassed. They talked about it for ages and he never smart-arsed me again.
So I guess some of us have found our ways to communicate and protect ourselves in many ways. I've come from the point of being too brutal with humour, and try now to be more considerate and respectful. Rosencrantz, you seem to have come from the opposite world of being 'too considerate'.
Anyway, there's a real brief summary on my communication history with strangers. That's one reason why I've never suffered never bein' invited to parties and stuff. My friends wouldn't dream of having a party without me cause they see me as good entertainment value.
But with my friends and family I'm different. I get brain-freeze and then can spend hours and days tryin' to work out the under-lyin' meanin's to what ever was said that disturbed me. I often can't think of quick or even slow come back or response. I get so caught up in tryin' to make sure I'm on the right ground first, that I often don't get to have my say at all.
And then for days and weeks I'm sayin' to myself, "Why didn't I say this, or that" and I think of the appropriate sometimes even brilliant repsonse way too late :( damn!!!
I have laways used humour to deflect attention, stop people from getting to close. The class clown, popular as hell, even with the teachers. I think nobody ever dreamed to check on me to see if I was alright, cause I was always crackin' jokes and happy and makin' people laugh.
But I can see how a big part of my psyche self-defense is humour. It keeps people at a safe distance. I'm sort of the poor man's Billy Connelly. I love that guy. Hmmm, that'll do for now, I'm combing the recipe books to see what I'm gonna make for dinner on Satdy nite. Tossin' up on attemptin' the Chateaubriand that reads really easy to do in a totally cool 70's recipe book I got at an op-shop last week. I've cooked a couple of fantastic dishes out of it that surprised me how easy they were. The person who put this book together "Good Housekeeping Big Winter Cook-Book"" has made it all so fool-proof, so I'm game. But I think I'll buy the mustard hollandaise, I couldn't be bothered makin' that.
Thanks for letting me rave, oh yeah, ps, you know I can't be funny if I have to be. My husband had this gross habit of always telling people how funny I was, so they'd meet me and he'd say "Go on tell them about the time you did such and such." BALAAAAAAAH.
I couldn't make a funny if my life depended on it. I can't do it if I have to. A friend/business associate I had once asked to help out on some radio jingles. The guy wanted some humour in his radio ads. He thought I was the funniest person he'd ever met. (Probably 'cause he was always chasin' me round his office- building with a hard-on. Crackin' jokes was how I used to deflect him, it's pretty hard to keep a hard-on when you're laughin' your head off.) But I couldn't come up with one funny line in the meetings. Yet back in the car or at lunch with him they were flying out of my mouth like I was blowin' raspberries. I ended up sayin' to him, you'll just have to follw me around with a cassette player, and keep sexually harrassin' me, then we'll get these f**kin' ads done, and then I'm outta here. Aaaaaargh. :wink:
(((HIG)))
CG
--- End quote ---
Hey Portia, what syndrome do you reckon I have??? Has it got a name???
I thought maybe 'Jester Syndrome' sounds good.
Portia:
hang on....I've got loads to catch up on here...got a bit way-laid :wink: ...by the Stats thread...back soon..P
rosencrantz:
Hi again Wildflower - I'm really sorry you are hurting!
--- Quote ---bewildered by how you can’t see why I might have gotten so upset after all my attempts to explain myself,
--- End quote ---
Thanks for that - I hadn't seen that's what had been going on for you. The answer is...convoluted! The answer is because I believed I didn't say what you heard and so I was preoccupied with the fact you weren't able to hear what I really said rather than trying to deal with the hurt which had arisen in response to what you thought I'd said. If I could have just made you hear what I really said, I believed you wouldn't be feeling hurt so 'obviously' (to me) the 'hurt' was an irrelevance! (Panic! I've got to make her hear me so she won't hurt and won't blame me for hurting her and my father won't blame me and I won't get into trouble! And, anyway, I'm only 2 years old!!!)
--- Quote ---If you had said, "I was ignoring you...
--- End quote ---
I couldn't have said that cos that's not what I meant, it's not what I was talking about.
--- Quote ---I simply couldn't deal with the idea that it was my fault
--- End quote ---
That's not what I was saying either.
--- Quote ---People don't ignore me. And even if they do, how can you know why?
--- End quote ---
Again, that's not where I was 'coming from' or what I was saying. But I hear a lot of hurt in that sentence and wonder where the hurt is coming from. And then my brain goes : But your mother did. Your mother ignored you and that's where all this hurt comes from.
--- Quote ---Your mother smothered you and didn’t give you a minute to have your own emotions or anything. I wondered if feeling ignored might be a welcome relief for you – not your worst fear and most powerful demon.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that's right. I want to get on and do my work here and not be brought to the attention of the world by some idiot statistician!!! :wink: I see you and Portia having suffered in a similar way to each other - different yet similar but the opposite of my experience.
But what's the same for all of us is that whatever we 'got' in our childhood, we set up to 'get' in our lives here and now. Even tho we hated our experience as a child and we didn't have an experience that was good for us, we INTERPRET things in the way we interpreted them back then. And these are the bubbles worth bursting.
I didn't 'ignore' you in those old posts after RG shut things down. I was protecting my supporters from getting in the cross-fire between me and some other shitface. (:shock: language! perlease!). I intended to come back but felt I'd be bringing up negative stuff after it was, to all intents and purposes, all done and dusted. I'd have been pedantic and a pain in the bum if I'd have done that. I also hadn't realised what your pm meant but I was in far too bad a place to even begin to look after other people's feelings at that time.
But perhaps also there are conflicting values at play here in terms of being softly softly and being upfront. Not sure.
Try Eric Berne's Games People Play - it's a wonderful book. It's decades old but still wonderful. It isn't about 'bad' games, about manipulation or anything like that - it's about life 'scripts', how we set ourselves up. In my initial reactions to how you experienced what I said, a page or so back, I, too, was still, as ever, acting out my own life script. I couldn't 'hear' YOU because I was making too much noise myself :shock: When I started to re-read it, I noticed something, I realised something. I wasn't sure what exactly - just that I was a 'twit'!!! :wink: And the bubble burst. I'm free of creating some terrible scenario in my head and my heart that stops me from calmly 'righting' my world and handling whatever comes up.
And yesterday - totally different circumstances, but same 'me'! - I calmly told someone (work-related) what they had just 'done' to me and what they had been doing to me for years, and I told them I wanted it to stop. And I was only able to do that because of what happened here.
And it was probably the most powerful statement I have ever made in my life.
Because I'm not 2 years old any more.
R
Portia:
Wow R, what did you say? (Sorry to butt in here) Can you say, or dress it up/down, change it if it’s personal?
--- Quote ---And it was probably the most powerful statement I have ever made in my life.
--- End quote ---
:!: Wow! P
PS. If we can get this thread to run to 13 pages....it'll be the longest thread on the whole board! Bwah ha ha ha ha ! And yes, dipso here paged through 10 pages to see that...I could've been working on loo roll, I know.... :roll:
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