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healing
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---FEAR OF DEPENDENCY - Unsure of his autonomy & afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs - usually by trying to control you.
So I’d stay out late with her, and when I got home, mom would be sniffling on the couch: Are you having fun out there? I just miss you so much. You used to be so little. What happened to that girl who used to be so little?
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Guilt Guilt Guilt! Instead of being free to grow up, and socialise unencumbered, here you were having to lug around mom's needs and dependency. If you if ignore them, you're a selfish little bitch. It's a no-win situation. Why wasn't she enjoying the free-time herself, maybe finishing one of her half-finished hobbies? Answer, cause she wasn't in control. While you were wasting your time looking for the phone book to get the phone number for the pizza joint she was happily in control of you, and you were taking care of something she should have got off her arse and done (dependency?).
Subtle control, but still control.
Subtle dependency, but still dependency.
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--- Quote ---quote]OBSTRUCTIONISM - Just tell a p/a man what you want, no matter how small, and he may promise to get it for you. But he won't say when, and he"ll do it deliberately slowly just to frustrate you. Maybe he won't comply at all. He blocks any real progress he sees to your getting your way.
FOSTERING CHAOS - The p/a man prefers to leave the puzzle incomplete, the job undone.
FEELING VICTIMIZED - The p/a man protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds. To remain above reporach, he sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.
MAKING EXCUSES & LYING - The p/a man reaches as far as he can to fabricate excuses for not fulfilling promises. As a way of withholding information, affirmation or love - to have power over you - the p/a man may choose to make up a story rather than give you a straight answer.
PROCRASTINATION - The p/a man has an odd sense of time - he believes that deadlines don't exist for him.
CHRONIC LATENESS & FORGETFULNESS - One of the most infuriating & inconsiderate of all p/a traits is his inability to arrive on time. By keeping you waiting, he sets the ground rules of the relationship. And his selective forgetting - used only when he wants to avoid an obligation.
AMBIGUITY - He is master of mixed messages and sitting on fences. When he tells you something, you may still walk away wondering if he actually said yes or no.
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--- Quote ---Ican think of a million examples of these traits. It was just life.
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Me too, both with mother and ex. :x
--- Quote ---Mom and I scrambled. To her credit, she used up her savings to keep me in college. Not that I didn’t hear about it over and over again after that. How my dad had ruined her life by taking all her savings. Savings she’d worked all her life to save up. How she'd lost all her security. She fell into a severe depression and lost her job (the real beginning of the current spiral downward, I think). Did it make me feel like I’d stolen her money? Did I feel her depression was my fault? Absolutely.
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Now, this is the juicy bit. This is where P/A gets us if we never deal with it. We end up always as the 'victim' in some-one else's melodrama. We end up as supporting cast in someone else's life, instead of being "leading lady' in our own. :D :D :D :D Which is the real reason we are here. Doesn't everybody want/need a supporting cast?? No they don't.
She lost her security and her savings that she'd worked all her life for. That is tragic, but she was responsible. Somewhere along the line she gave over control, played 'dependent ' once too often and was taken advantage of. This wasn't your fault. And yes, to her credit she spent the last on your education. But remember, that was her agreed responsibility as your parent, and your father's. Not yours. If college was what they'd planned and promised and wanted for you, then they were under an obligation. And you ended up having to work and chip in. They were responsible for any distractions you may had along the lines of feelings of fear and embarrasment and anxiety throughout that whole time.
When your mind should have been free to focus on study and career and new relationships, you had all this other shit going on in 'centre stage'. What difference do you think it would have made if they had of met their responsibilities squarely in the face, say dad had of sold the 3rd floor he built, to help you out? hahahah If they had grown-up and made it possible for you go off to college mentally unimpeded by their crap for the first time?
--- Quote ---Other mothers’ pleas to help their children. Other mothers’ paperwork. Other families struggling. Nothing from my mom.
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Her own guilt and shame and denying reality. Probably was buying lottery tickets every week, and living in fanasy world that a fairy god-mother was gonna bail you out.
--- Quote ---That’s when I had my first major panic attack – trying to be strong and keep up my studies. Trying to comfort my dad by telling him I understood about the money and this wouldn’t affect our relationship that we’d fought hard for
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I can't say here what I wish you had of said to him, :x , but you sure let him off the hook 'big-time". And of course I would probably have done the same. But shit, it's exactly at these junctures we need to learn to turn the heat on them, not turn it down. :x :x The sooner we learn to distinguish this, the better. Once again, start becoming 'leading-lady' in our life, not 'supporting role' in some-one elses.
Here he was, skewering you and letting you down big-time, both as father and supporter, probably for the 1000th time, and he turns it around, till in the end, "YOU'RE" offering "him" unconditional love and support.
:shock: :shock: How f*cking twisted is that. :shock: :shock:
SPEW, WHERE'S THE BUCKET.
The squeeky wheel gets the grease!!! You shoulda made the bastard squirm and not let him off the hook TILL HE COUGHED UP SOME DOUGH. Kept the heat up, gone over there, :D with forms for a personal loan for him to fill out AND SIGN.
Skewered his SELFISH ass to the bloody wall. Maybe it wouldn't have achieved anything, Maybe it would. But you'd have a least made him have to face himself. Hope he was enjoying the extra floor on his house, What was it, a pool rooom? Somewhere to relax after a hard day of doing his daughter in. Somewhere to entertain his friends while his daughter was almost on the verge of a nervous breakdown. F*CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--- Quote ---That was fall term. When I went home that winter break, that’s when mom told me I didn’t contribute a #@$% thing to the household. Irony?
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Fall term, fall term. yeah, that's for damn sure. I wouldn't contribute a sheet of toilet paper to some people now, without getting a decent thankyou of appreciation FIRST.
Thanks for the feedback and stories Wildflower. I've probably still got a long way to go myself, but just in this post of yours alone I see so much of me in all of these things you've wriiten. Different characters, and situations, but same dynamics. Thankyou, and I think :idea: the fog is clearing. :D I hope it's the same for you.
((((HIGS from a happy free-floating HIGAPIGASAURURUS))))
And long may youn Vent!!!!
CG
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Wildflower:
Okay another long one, but before I start ... feeling a little…narcissistic here, what with all this talk of myself. :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops: So I wanted to say that I used to keep journals several years ago. I used to write profusely – trying to figure stuff out. But I got stuck all the time. Big circles. Writing the same pages over and over and over. And who was I writing to? I didn’t even know who I was. I stopped writing in journals because it wasn’t getting me anywhere and I was just thinking about myself all the time. But talking with you guys? Thinking about all of us being in this together? Thinking about others instead of my own stupid problems all the time? Reading your responses and thinking about how things might appear to you? So unbelievably helpful. :D :D :D And yes, the fog is clearing. Big time. :D Thank you guys. :D :D And with that said...no need at all to parse through/read/respond to this post unless you want to. I'm just talking out loud... :D
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That’s when I had my first major panic attack – trying to be strong and keep up my studies. Trying to comfort my dad by telling him I understood about the money and this wouldn’t affect our relationship that we’d fought hard for
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I can't say here what I wish you had of said to him, , but you sure let him off the hook 'big-time". And of course I would probably have done the same. But shit, it's exactly at these junctures we need to learn to turn the heat on them, not turn it down. The sooner we learn to distinguish this, the better.
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You’re so right about how I should have skewered Dad when that was happening, CG. I guess I was too confused and used to making excuses for my parents, huh? BARF. SPEW. PSEW. Maybe I should PSEW him for emotional damage. :lol:
--- Quote ---I know you're doing the exact opposite to my husband, you've been working on it for years, and recently to the point that you felt that your work was suffering and spoke to your boss about it. But his observation isn't to be ignored. "Tired of being super-human" is an interesting comment. Is he being ambiguous? Is he saying something much more there?
Is he hinting at perfectionism?
Reluctance to delegate?
Lack of trust in others abilities & competencies?
Fear of failure?
Emotional Fatigue?
Ignore this if yoou want to, they are just questions coming from my own personal history and experience. How that comment would have caused knee-jerk reacions in me.
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That bit about being super human? Honest? I’m not entirely sure what my boss means, because I haven’t done any work for the past two months. Okay, maybe a tenth of the work I normally do. :wink: Seriously. I’ve delegated everything except this one piece that we don’t even need. And I’m in charge of bringing everyone’s work together, but that’s it. So what have I been doing? Managing ha ha ha. I’ve been the perfect manager in the sense that everyone else does the work while I sit on my ass (wiping the tears off my face - okay, not managerial :roll: ). So, I can’t imagine that my boss is telling me I’m STILL working too hard. Really. That would be nuts. :?
It’s true that I was a perfectionist, and I used to give too much of myself to my job. But I’ve been much more relaxed over the past couple of years. For one thing, I’ve been going back to school in hopes of changing careers – because my heart’s never really been in my current one. Ever since I started going back to school last summer, I’ve been more than happy to delegate. :D To let this go. If I ever put my heart in my career it was to gain financial stability. To never have to worry about money the way I have in the past. To never let it control me and my happiness the way it has in the past (Yes, Portia, I’m 100% independent financially – I depend on no one). It was pure survival. It was purely drive to get into a position where I could count on stable income. It was never for status. In fact, I’d have been happy staying where I am – but I’ve gotten lots of pressure to promote up. I don't even want to make more money because I'm afraid it'll go to my head and I’ll end up just as irresponsible as my dad. To work less would put me in a precarious position like Mom’s.
When my boss first asked me to delegate, I simply didn’t know how – and yes, part of it was because I didn’t trust others to do the work (can you imagine why? :roll:). But it was also because I simply didn’t know how to break the work down, to reorganize it, shift priorities, identify the balls in the air in such a way that more people could be doing more work – more efficiently. But I’m getting better, I think thanks to my boss's help and advice.
And the project I've been working on for two years? The client is a raging N hahahahahah. I’m not kidding. She’s hilariously insane – hilarious because I rarely have to deal with her in person. You should see the people who do, though. I’m sure you can imagine how crazy they feel. :roll: She can’t make decisions about the project because she has to figure out whether she should have bar soap or liquid soap in the bathroom – or what kinds of snacks and soft drinks she’ll allow (does it make sense to have caffeine-free Diet Coke AND Diet Coke?). :roll: She doesn’t want this project to end because then she won't have all these people catering to her wacky needs. Ever seen Groundhog Day with Bill Murray? That is this project. I’m not kidding. So the team has LOADS of time to make mistakes. :lol: :lol:
So I let people learn - and make mistakes in their own time – because I see this as a learning project. Like school. I ask questions now instead of giving answers. I think about how to break a problem down so that junior members of the team can be more effective. I have a pretty good idea of the strengths of the members on the team. Some of them are just as good as I am if not better (I write software, so it’s fairly easy to be objective about skill levels on the team – even when it comes to different styles). For whatever reason, though, I’ve been singled out to be the leader.
So…here I am … giving all my work away and asking questions and learning how to enable others to do their work. I feel kinda useless in some ways, but super human? No way. I can see how he could have said that six months ago, but not now.
So, I think he may have been saying, in a weird way, welcome to the human world where the rest of us live. With our sloppy work and messy lives and imperfections. Hmm.
--- Quote ---Where are those average people then? Just to be normal eh? Scratch anybody's surface and 99.9% of the (western) human race are loons of some sort. (Half my neighbours are. Just discovered one went to top himself a coupla years ago (he didn't) but he's a manic/dep. I had no idea and I see him all the time. 'bout time I started looking at other people a little more closely I think.)
You don't have to pay for your parents' f*ck ups. You don't have to earn anything. You ARE part of normal life.
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Funny, all this ties into the bit about me having a tantrum about being embarrassed about my parents. I’ve felt that away about my family since I was around ten but I've never voiced it before. I remember when it started. I remember envying my friend who lived a couple doors down – whose dad was a Boy Scout leader. Whose mom took care of me more than once when my mom was sleeping and I’d gotten in trouble or hurt. They had lots of toys and regular meals. So...I was embarrassed that my family wasn't like this. I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't hide all the problems when I was at home (weight, failing grades, troubled relationships) so I hid. But yeah, I see it now. I have been compensating ever since I left home. I’ve been trying to hide the fact that I come from a messed up family. I’ve been trying to learn to be ultra normal so no one will ever be able to tell by knowing me that I come from a messed up family.
But I DO come from a messed up family. And I survived. That’s something to be proud of isn’t it? To look my past in the face and say “You stay there in the past, okay? We’re done here.” I’ve started telling my closest friend (my ex, the one who showed me how unproductive and hurtful it was to stay all bottled up) about my family. I’d kept it from him until now – afraid he would leave me. Well, he’s still here. He still cares about me. And he had no idea my family was so messed up. Okay, he knew about my dad, but he’s having trouble absorbing all my stories about mom. He keeps saying he had no idea (it wasn't obvious :shock: ?).
That’s what I wanted, wasn’t it? So how could my friends know what I’ve done if I’m all busy hiding and compensating? If I’m sitting on the sidelines of life struggling to be perfect so I can go out and play with the others. But maybe there comes a point where we’re just scared to go out there and take life by the horns – and there’s nothing really holding us back anymore. After that last hook has been removed.
Watching the Nick Drake documentary last Friday, I realized that some people don’t survive. For whatever reason, they don’t survive. No matter how others try to reach out to them. That may be my mom (though I doubt it now – she was just having a tantrum), but it’s not me. I’ve always been a survivor. Time to strut my stuff and be that leading lady in my life. Thanks for that image, CG. :D :D :D :D
(((((((BIG HIGS AND ((CG Portia)) TONS OF LOVE))))))))
Wildflower
Anonymous:
Hi Wildflower,
as you move into and embrace that 'leading lady' role with all the accolades are a very normal part of it, just remember All those 'normal' people out there are so often just like us. If you met me in a work related endeavour you'd probably think I was from a very normal, well-adjusted, happy, positive and stable environment. And you know something, I'd never let on otherwise. So you just never can tell. You're just as together as the rest of them, probably more in a lot of ways, because of what you've come through. You've built some muscles along the way, that just might see you over the top. :D
So glad and happy that you opened up to your friend. Bet he feels privileged. :D
And once again, long may you vent, 'til it's all out!!
(((HIGS)))
CG
CG
Dawning:
**Hi Wildflower. Guess CG and P are out and about today/this evening (time difference and all that.)
--- Quote ---But I DO come from a messed up family. And I survived. That’s something to be proud of isn’t it?
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Yup Yup, YUP. And I am glad that your ex is listening to you.
--- Quote ---That may be my mom (though I doubt it now – she was just having a tantrum), but it’s not me. I’ve always been a survivor. Time to strut my stuff and be that leading lady in my life.
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:D Survive and Thrive.
**To CG: your explanation of their intentions to simply *win* was so spot-on. After letting it sink in, it felt like another step up the ladder to awareness. Closer to the light. Are you at a coffee shop now. :?: :wink: Hey, I am going to go tomorrow and have a moca.
Wildflower:
Hi CG :D
--- Quote ---If you met me in a work related endeavour you'd probably think I was from a very normal, well-adjusted, happy, positive and stable environment. And you know something, I'd never let on otherwise. So you just never can tell.
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Are you kidding me? I'd know your humor in a heart-beat :D :D No, no. I get your point. And ... never letting on. I need to think about that. I'm reading Don't Lets Go to the Dogs Tonight right now, and it's the memoirs of a woman who grew up in Africa. It seems as though she accepts her life - good and bad, real bad. I don't want to go around advertising ... but I'm not sure I want to ... reject who I've been in the past. Not anymore. Can I accept who I am and never let on at the same time? Ponder ponder splash ponder.
--- Quote ---Here he was, skewering you and letting you down big-time, both as father and supporter, probably for the 1000th time, and he turns it around, till in the end, "YOU'RE" offering "him" unconditional love and support.
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Oh, and wow on the unconditional love reversal. I so didn't see that :shock:.
Hi Dawning :D
--- Quote ---:D Survive and Thrive.
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Nice. I've got a new motto. Thanks :D.
(((HIGS)))
Wildflower
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