healing

[Wildflower]

You know...I was obsessed as a child with fixing things with my mother and that kept me from doing what I needed to do - which was to be out in the world, yes, recharging my batteries.  So weird to think about it that way, but it makes sense now.  And I see now how frustrated I was with failing so much with people and not having any support for figuring out how to be a better friend, a better person in society, a better me.

Now I'm obsessing about people I hurt in my past.  And I'm paranoid about hurting people in the present and future.  But I see people here being resilient in the face of what's been going on in the past few days.  And I feel how self-important it might be to think I could have such a big impact on the great survivors on this board.  Those people I hurt in the past are fine and doing well in life, I bet.  They were some good solid folks - what drew me to them in the first place.  And people forgive.  And they really just aren't as delicate (as much of a victim) as my mother is/was.

I made mistakes.  I was frustrated that I couldn't be a better person around my friends.  And there's one person in particular who haunts me.  I cherished him.  I hurt him pretty badly once, and while we were able to remain friends for a few years after that, we were never that close again.  I missed out on him like I missed out on my childhood.   But it's time to let him go.

Thanks again to everyone on this board who by being there with all your many voices have helped me make so many leaps in such a short time.

Wildflower

[Anonymous]

And, well, because this thread took me to a new place last night, and I’m still kinda reeling.  In a good way, but reeling.  Am I a nutbag, or what?  Pushing myself like this.  

These personality issues can be so overwhelming, though.  And bottomless…shifty ground…hard to stand on.  And you shoulda seen me when I was immersed in Continental philosophy!   Oooo boy.  Talk about thinking too much!!!  And I do mean immersed.      

Music can be very concrete (I love Tom Petty) but it can also be very telling (I love how free and down to earth and unpretentious and raw and knowing and unassuming he is).  So I’ve been amassing a silly little superficial list in my head of “who I am.”  I like Brussels Sprouts (not as much peas, incidentally).  Who likes Brussels Sprouts?   Me.  That’s who.  I love purple with a passion, and spring colors tempt me spend insane amounts of money (I don’t, though).  But…I used to wear black all the time??  Hunh.  Guess I never knew.   Maybe these things will change over time, but I know they're me now.  They're not a reaction to anyone else, and they're not imposed by anyone else.

So when I asked you about a book of Rosencrantz, I guess in a way I was asking you to list the bits of you that have been cropping up when pressed.  A little list to go back to for these times of vertigo.  There’s a you in there – don’t doubt it.     We’re physical beings and that, at the very least, means there’s something that makes us unique (MY body - not YOURS to wreak havoc with, stamp stamp stamp).  Even if it’s about who eats broccoli with peanut butter (not me, I swear).

Well, I guess that's a little more than a few thoughts, but once I get going...

With love and compassion,
Wildflower

No Wildflower, you're definitely not nuts, you're wonderful. I've come back to the dialogue between you and Rosencrantz. It has spirited me along to a place I've been trying to find. The quest for my signature and syle. Who I really am.

Am I game to be who I secretly suspect I am? I get glimpses of the real me at times. I hear my real voice sometimes, and then something or someone in the world frightens me and I hide the real me behind a shield and armour. It's a magnificent and intimidating suit and that's the me that the world sees. I'm invincible in battle!

But it's not the real me, it's my protective shell, my survival facade that I made as a kid and it's impenetrable and it's alive. I had to make it to hide behind or I'd have died from all the fighting, screaming, bashings and expectations. And now I've been wearing it for so long, it's become tight, uncomfortable, infact, it's beginning to constrict me. It's such a tough call because without it on I feel so naked and vulnerable.

I know in this suit I'm safe, that no-one can know me or touch me, and I can't know or touch anyone else. And that also makes me feel very lonely. I don't want to be seperated and hidden from the world forever. I think the time is coming soon when I'm going to have to take this suit off and pack it away. I'm so sad about this in some ways, because it's become so much a part of me and saved me so many times.  But if I keep hiding in it I'm afraid I'll never be able to get it off.


Thank you so much Wildflower and Rosencrantz,
this has been so encouraging and revealing for me.

PS. Wildflower, now who's the nutbag?

[Anonymous]

You were darn right about that 'closure' business tho'.  I did feel desperately humilliated.  More - it was a terrible shock to wake up (literally!) to the fact that I was no longer in control. (I wasn't anyway, but still!). I think the ensuing guilt unhinged me slightly.  Maybe it was like having the door slammed shut between me (aged 2) and my mother!!! That'll teach me to behave myself.  Challenge her and you lose big time!!!  

And I think two people got lumbered with anger of mine that should have been directed towards RG - cos they got in between him and you and inadvertently got in between me and him!  The point of the story was to get us to post appropriately again - from the heart - I can't imagine for a minute that his aim was for us to start looking after his feelings!!  

Oh, and someone said to me that my experience of the inexperienced therapist put her off 'talking therapy'.  Be careful out there but there are good guys around - my first was caring and careful and dealt with a completely voiceless person in a helpful way.  He sowed seeds and helped me make the transition from my mother - without him the consequences would have been dire.  And I see no reason not to trust RG.  


R

This is such good stuff, and the way you can knit things together.   The analysis and associations here go deep, huh? That story about the door being closed between you and your mother is so heartbreaking, but also gets some anger happening? I don't understand at all. All I know is it affects me somewhere deep. And the way you have and are making sense of all the above is so amazing to me.

Gosh memories are painful sometimes. But boy, the most freeing times I've had, and where I've learned the most, is when I've put in the effort. When I've refused to let myself off the hook, or let myself be too afraid to look at the past, or in the mirror. When I admit to what I see and open it up to scrutiny, (at the right time and in the right environment) so often the picture or memory changes for the better. Sometimes even taking on whole new reality and meaning. And then I'm set free.

Thanks Rosencrantz for showing me how to do that.

Guest

[rosencrantz]

Thanks Rosencrantz for showing me how to do that.

Boy, are YOU welcome!!!!!

Quite often I start a sentence and have no idea where it's leading but it has its own ending.   Subject, verb - kerpow! It leads somewhere amazing!!! But it must sound as tho I knew where I'm going when I started it.

WILDFLOWER - I've not been keeping up with you.  But you keep on going - you're doing great processing, too!!!!!  Thanks for explaining the R book - you're right.  I'll start today!!

You made me laugh so much when you described your mother on the other end of the phone.  I think your mother and Portia's mother should be put on the end of the same phone line.  I think they'd be happy for days just talking away.    (OK on that, Portia?!)

I did start writing to you last night as you'd posted while I was still writing to CG but I had to give in to the exhaustion of the day. So this relates to what you wrote earlier - tho I think you've moved on quite a bit since then!!!

But you know, I see you suffering a lot and it puts me back into context.  
 
My stuff is about understanding what's 'out there'. And how people 'decide' who I am and how I can change what they decide.  I lack words for it all - I have only my N/F to experience it with.  I know deep down what I know and what I believe.  I'm just not very resilient if someone disputes the nose on my face!!! (as in 'it's as plain as...').  Everything comes cascading down in a welter of shame. And I have some other stuff about 'whose feelings am I feeling' simply because I connect so strongly with people and it's not something that is valued or even recognised in our everyday conversations!!
 
But I see you struggling with your very identity.  I don't know if it's different to what I'm doing but it feels different.  In my book we really can only discern by contrast.  Find some polar opposites in your life and rub up against them.  You'll find out who you are soon enough.  You sound like a little girl so lost.  And so down on yourself.  Go through it by all means, but sometimes you just have to chuck out the duff stuff and believe in yourself.  I believe in you.  You sound beautiful not ugly.    Resilient and strong.  And caring.  Not patronising.  

Watch out for the rescuing, tho - my mother trained me to be a rescuer like her (I am her, she is me) but I think yours trained you to take responsibility because she is irresponsible    So let go of the guilt.  Really!  You have nothing to make reparation for.  Your existence does not damage others!!! Really!!!  ESPECIALLY not your mother!!!  (I'll just repeat all that to myself here!      )  (In the context of everything that has happened recently I want to apologise to you in case I've 'got you' all wrong but somehow I feel that insults our previous discussions so, with fingers crossed, I won't   )

[Just read your more recent post : ach - your mother isn't delicate.  She is NOT delicate.  She's irresponsible.  (mea culpa - it's only my opinion) Oh bother humility.  She's irresponsible FGS!!!!!  And I don't believe I'm hurting you if I say that!!  I'm hurting you far more if I don't!!! Irr-esp-ons-ible!]

I don't know how I managed to cause all that furore, all that damage,  all that pain, recently, when I spend all my time pussyfooting around worrying about hurting other people's feelings.  But then, I've got a suit, too.  Once hauled up I go crashing around like T Rex and it takes a long time to come down again.  (?)  Meanwhile there's a small, guilty child crying with shame behind it. Definitely a spiral of shame begetting shame.  

My H says we're like sweets/candy : I'm tough on the inside with a soft centre - he's soft on the outside but a really hard core.  If you push him too hard, he'll make you into a white spot.  Wow!  You disappear!  I wasn't allowed to do anything that 'mean' and self-respecting!!!!!  There are lots of things he'll do that my upbringing is horrified about but he's got far more self-respect than I have so I know who I'll listen to!!!  (Not everything, tho! We are each more grown up than the other in some ways and less well honed in others - so we keep learning from each other)

R

[Portia]

...

[rosencrantz]

Nooo - white spot means you don't exist.  Nowhere on the horizon.  Maybe somewhere about the height of a worm.  But not in his line of vision.  No way.  Gone.  Pouf!    
R

[Portia]

Wow! I could never do that to anyone! I'm not capable of that. Now that is self-belief. Respect to the H! P

[rosencrantz]

Yeah!  He's a lot more Emotionally Intelligent than I am - but he's a T so he keeps his brain in gear!!!!!  A willow that always bends to my oak that never bends.  The oil vs the grit that keep the wheels turning.  He's shown me a lot but I just can't bend and I just have to provide the grit for everyone to rub up against!!!  Sigh!  I'm really not going to change, am I!!!  Yes I am!    I'm going to respect what makes ME different!  And ENJOY it!????!
R

[Wildflower]

Hi Guest,

I'm so glad you found the conversations between R and me helpful.   That really means a lot to me.

But it's not the real me, it's my protective shell, my survival facade that I made as a kid and it's impenetrable and it's alive. I had to make it to hide behind or I'd have died from all the fighting, screaming, bashings and expectations. And now I've been wearing it for so long, it's become tight, uncomfortable, infact, it's beginning to constrict me. It's such a tough call because without it on I feel so naked and vulnerable.

I know in this suit I'm safe, that no-one can know me or touch me, and I can't know or touch anyone else. And that also makes me feel very lonely. I don't want to be seperated and hidden from the world forever. I think the time is coming soon when I'm going to have to take this suit off and pack it away. I'm so sad about this in some ways, because it's become so much a part of me and saved me so many times. But if I keep hiding in it I'm afraid I'll never be able to get it off.

I can really relate to this on so many levels.  Two things you said resonated really deeply with me, too.  Your 'suit' was alive, and since it was such a part of you and stuck up for you for so many years, you're sad to put it away and move on.  Is it possible that your suit is a person instead of cold armour?  I know mine is.  She worked so hard and sacrificed so much to get me here.  I want to hug her until she stops hurting and can relax and become a part of me.  Whole.  Together.

Do I suffer from multiple personality disorder?  Perhaps.    But at least those personalities are finally working together .

Am I game to be who I secretly suspect I am? I get glimpses of the real me at times. I hear my real voice sometimes

Believe, trust, and follow that voice whenever you can.  I have no doubt it will lead you to happiness.

Wildflower

[Wildflower]

I think your mother and Portia's mother should be put on the end of the same phone line. I think they'd be happy for days just talking away.  (OK on that, Portia?!)

Wildflower, you want to give your mother the phone number for mine? Any time. Though the calls will be expensive! Good idea R.  

OMG that's such a good idea!!!        Maybe they could even set some kind of world record, too.    

And to both of you, thanks for the bit about my mom being plain and simple IRRESPONSIBLE!  She so is.  And you know what?  After all the defense mechanisms she's built up dealing with her mother and avoiding reality, how does it work that I'm able to get through to her and hurt her?  Huh?  That makes ZERO sense.  

Ahhhh.  You live and learn (soooooooooo much on this board).

Wildflower

[Wildflower]

But I see you struggling with your very identity.

I just wanted to take a minute and say, yes, this is true.  But it’s more like I’m struggling to allow my identity to form, because I remember who I was before the world as I knew it came to an end.  I'm the little girl who lined people up on the playground to go through a 'tickle machine'.  I'm the little girl who said it was time to play ‘girls chase boys’ instead of ‘boys chase girls’ because it wasn’t fair that boys got to do all the chasing.   I'm the little girl who would have no problem whatsoever giving you a long lecture about treating people equally.  I could go on, but the point is that there are so many things I love about this little girl.   But for a long time, I just couldn’t hear her through the pain and the lies.
 
And she’s been growing up over the years – because I’ve been letting her be a child.  I really don’t get how this works without involving people chasing me down the street with a straight jacket , but for her, I’ve been able to be the parent I couldn’t be for my mother.  And that my mother couldn’t be for me.  And watching this girl grow up has been so full of surprises.  Would you believe there was actually a cheerleader phase?!?    In spite of all the feminism and cultured upbringing and whatnot (shaking my head emoticon).  Cheerleading!!!    Of course, there weren’t many squads that wanted someone my age , so it was more of a fun exercise in making my friends wonder whether or not I was really being serious.  But it was fun!

All my best,
Wildflower

[Anonymous]

I really don’t get how this works without involving people chasing me down the street with a straight jacket

Would you believe there was actually a cheerleader phase?!?    In spite of all the feminism and cultured upbringing and whatnot (shaking my head emoticon).  Cheerleading!!!    Of course, there weren’t many squads that wanted someone my age , so it was more of a fun exercise in making my friends wonder whether or not I was really being serious.  But it was fun!

All my best,
Wildflower

That line about the straight jacket is so funny, but it's so true. I tend to fantasise a lot about the past. I think memory and imagination are very similar. So when I think about the past I'm never 100% if it all did actually happen the way I think it did. I try so very hard to stick with the facts when I'm writing them down, but sometimes I'm so unsure.

At the moment I'm working on a story about a psychic I met, and as a result a string of experiences that actually happened to me 2 years ago.

In doing that, I've realised how much memory can be affected and influenced by our values. And how values drive our imagination.  When I read you sharing your stories, I also see you recognise that your imagination is a vital part of the healing process. I think this is such a brave thing to do. Especially in light of the straightjacket imagery. That is hilarious really. I've kept many thoughts and stories secret for fear of the same thing. I guess fiction could be could therapy for that.

And the cheerleading thing, priceless. I've done similar things with and to  my family, gone through so many stages in my search for me. Once I went mad and renovated and decorated, with this theme, everything in the house had to be white. And I mean everything. It was all so, so white! And so bloody hard to find anything. When the morning sun blasted into the loungeroom and kitchen from about 6am till 9am , the glare bouncing off everything was unimaginabley cruel. It would cause permanent retina damage if you weren't prepared. We all had to get around in sunglasses first thing or with our hands up like someone shielding their face from a blast.

And I get such a laugh now when I think of that. Thanks Wildflower for opening up and showing me how it's done, and that really it's not as bad as my imagination would have me believe.


Guest.

[Wildflower]

Hi Guest,

I should be sleeping now but I read your reply and you got me laughing so hard again.        I LOVE this.  

Once I went mad and renovated and decorated, with this theme, everything in the house had to be white. And I mean everything. It was all so, so white! And so bloody hard to find anything. When the morning sun blasted into the loungeroom and kitchen from about 6am till 9am , the glare bouncing off everything was unimaginabley cruel. It would cause permanent retina damage if you weren't prepared. We all had to get around in sunglasses first thing or with our hands up like someone shielding their face from a blast.

I can’t quite put my finger on what’s so wonderful about your style of humor, but it’s great.  I had a friend in college who I adored for so many reasons but there are two that really stand out.  He was a year older and I was living in the room he’d had the year before, and one day I pulled down one of the blinds we’d never used before and there was this fantastic stylized cat on the blind.  It was such a treat to find.  And his manner of speech was so wonderfully fresh – I really never knew what he was going to say next, but everything he said made me look at the world a little differently.  I tried to tell him how much I adored these qualities in him by saying “you’re so RANDOM”.  He wasn’t pleased.     So, I don’t want to risk doing that to you here, but thank you thank you thank you for sharing that!

And thanks for understanding where I was coming from instead of calling the funny farm on me.

Wildflower

[Portia]

Now I’m enjoying reading Wildflower and Guest. More please! I agree Wildflower, Guest’s sense of humour makes me laugh out loud (I love the chicken house story on the other what helps? Board, the image of chickens falling off their perches in shock, love it!).

You keep showing more of yourself Wildflower and I’m being amazed by your huge and varied personality. Blossoming on the board (that wasn’t meant as a pun). Really! Don’t mean to be patronising or flattering…(text deleted here about IQ, EQ and society’s view of crazy, sparked by your straightjacket comment but decided not to go there, ok?)

I think memory and imagination are very similar. So when I think about the past I'm never 100% if it all did actually happen the way I think it did. I try so very hard to stick with the facts when I'm writing them down, but sometimes I'm so unsure

Ah Guest, did it really happen or did it happen in a dream? Sometimes I have no idea. And the facts! I guess things like dates, legal stuff, births and deaths are facts but not much else.
As R was saying abut introverts elsewhere, I need external validation, I do not trust the values I have placed on memories any more. That’s why talking on this board is tricky in terms of drawing conclusions – it’s my take, my values, my memories.

how much memory can be affected and influenced by our values. And how values drive our imagination

Yes, like I remember that event, I did that. Why did I do that? Ahh, because I wanted to get away, I was unhappy (No, because you wanted to rebel and have fun). Not sure.

People used to listen to me talk (teens, early 20s), smile and say “you’re crazy!” I guess meaning ‘what odd thoughts’ but I can say now, it was both flattering to my mind and I also wanted to punch those people for making me wonder if it was true. Crowds, lynch mobs, lunch mobs in the workplace. Sorry, darkness, back to you quick! P

PS. Here’s weird one on facts/experience/immediate memory. Going to bed the other night, OH puts radio on and there’s some silly song being sung on some comedy prog. I hear him sing along a line. I go into the bedroom and after a pause he says “so you know that song too?”. “Eh?” I say. He says “Weren’t you just singing it?” Me: “No, that was you singing!” Both of us: “Yikes!” (I think he had a conversation with me in his mind and took it as real – bit like thinking you’ve woken up, got out of bed, brushed your teeth…and then you wake up.) Odd chap, the brain.

Was it here or elsewhere? “You’re just jealous because the voices aren’t talking to you!”

[Anonymous]

But I see you struggling with your very identity.

I just wanted to take a minute and say, yes, this is true.  But it’s more like I’m struggling to allow my identity to form, because I remember who I was before the world as I knew it came to an end
All my best,
Wildflower

Hi Wildflower, when the world as you knew it came to an end, was it a particular catastropic event, a ground zero experience. Or was it a major internal reality moment that hit after years of unrecognised degradation.

Guest