Author Topic: Pessimism and N Parents  (Read 2201 times)

sfalken

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Pessimism and N Parents
« on: June 08, 2007, 09:55:41 AM »
--Modified; Personal Reasons--
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 09:00:31 AM by sfalken »

lighter

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2007, 10:00:52 AM »
I'm working on being less pessimistic too right now.  I enjoyed your post.

gratitude28

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2007, 10:05:34 AM »
Yes Yes Yes!!!!!!
I never would attempt to do ANYTHING I wouldn't excel or "win" at. I am learning that that is NOT the point. And I have negative tapes about EVERYTHING too, but through repetition and catching myself, they are erasing... it just takes time. I really want to talk to you more, but it is late here. (((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Stormchild

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2007, 10:51:35 AM »
I think what's important isn't optimism or pessimism, but realism.

Sometimes things are better than we think they are, and sometimes the game really is rigged and we're just kidding ourselves if we believe otherwise.

Being able to see both of those situations without distortion or second-guessing is the real goal, at least for me.

Don't know if this helps or not. I hope it does.

Edit in: :oops: I feel kind of funny putting this link here but... I just posted something about this yesterday in another venue and it might help. So... I hope it does... but more importantly, you might want to look at the 'Defensive Pessimism' link on the right hand side of the page... because not all pessimism is unhealthy.

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com/2007_06_07_archive.html
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 11:07:27 AM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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tayana

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2007, 11:59:26 AM »
I like to consider myself a realist.  My mother is very pessimistic, and I have allowed myself to be talked out of a lot of things, including jobs, promotions, moving, etc.  At some point in my life, I was very pessimistic too, and I didn't try a lot of things I wish I would have. 

However, I have this tendency to get something in my head and go with it, but to my mother's dismay.  I went away to school against her wishes.  I changed majors against her wishes.  I took jobs that she didn't want me to take.  I work in a traditionally male only field, and she hates this.  I do it though against her backdrop of pessimistic talk, and I find myself feeling very guilty.  I don't consider how I feel, or how good the change will be for me, all I consider is her feelings, thoughts, and desires.  I'm planning to move out of her house and into my own place.  I have very good reasons for doing this that have absolutely nothing to do with her.  When she found out that I was considering this, she immediately started in with, you'll never be able to make it on your own, you'll have x expenses, you need to think about this.  You're going to take your son out of a stable home environment and he's going to regress even more.

Sometimes, I find it very hard to turn off the mantra of her voice in my head.  I have heard for the last ten years that I will never be able to make it on my own, but I think I can.  I even wrote up a budget that says I can, without ever dipping into my savings except to buy things I'll need.  Granted, we'll have to be a little frugal, but that's all right too.  I have this desire to prove my mom wrong all the time.  I suppose it's a sort of rebellion.  She would say I can't, and I would try to prove her wrong.

So, I consider myself a realist.  It's nice to be optimistic, but we have to face the realities of our situation too.  That's what I try to do.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
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SilverLining

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2007, 12:54:37 PM »

(1) Would others here agree that this enviromnent encourages pessimism and/or learned helplessness, and (2) would you consider yourself to be more of a pessimist by nature after growing up in the home of an N? (3) How pessimistic is your N parent and how did/does this have an effect on you today? (4) Have you found a way in your adult life to become more optimistic and less negative in your attitude since you have discovered what defined your N parent and/or enabler "other" parent - and that you DO have the ability to make a difference?



On your questions 1 and 2 I definitely agree.  By the time I reached age 18 or two I was an expert pessimist.   For awhile I even tried to make it a career as an academic social critic.     I think it comes about in a couple of ways.  First is the direct effect of dealing with all the negativity year after year.  Then there is the fact our parents are the primary role models, and their ways of doing and seeing things get picked up  unconsciously.   It may not be a happy way to live but it did keep them alive, and so it seems to be our best shot at getting along in the world. 

I am still working on it.  One method has been to detach from the "parent voice" inside my head and realize how it came about.  Negative things (or should I say things I  learned to define as negative) of course still happen but I try to practice not dwelling on them.  A lot depends on being "in the moment" and not getting swept away by negative thoughts.  It's a constant practice, but it does seem to get easier over the years. 

tayana

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2007, 02:09:29 PM »
Quote
Tell me, that this did not encourage dicouragement. For me it is clear that these things along with the inescapable fact that I could not stop them or her, poised me perfectly for learned helplessness, and pessimism. Perhaps in addition, when you grow up watching a parent continually say negative things about every person that they have contact with (in private - and no one was/is safe..) and then smile in their faces - this adds to the mix.

It definitely encourages discouragment.  It also encourages distrust.  I have the hardest time trusting people, anyone.  Trust is real big thing for me.  And my mom was big on saying all sorts of negative things about people behind their backs, and then treating them like gold when she sees them in person.  She does this to my sister-in-law now. EX:  She made a pie the other day and gave my brother a few pieces to take home.  She said, "Maybe you can have two of these since S is on a diet all the time."  He told her no it had to be split in half.  She makes comments like that all time to him, and then wonders why he doesn't want us to come out to his house or anything like that.  My SIL is very like my mom, a know it all, done everything, definite N tendencies.

http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Overcomer

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2007, 03:15:41 PM »
When I was young I was so optimistic.  My best friend and I felt like we had the world by the tail!  THAT was when my mom was so engrossed in her successful career that she didn't have time for me..........so it was ok........I could deal with it.  It was when we started working together and she totally got in the middle of everything I did.............I felt like I was in jail........such a pessimist!!!

I am getting there but only because I see a light at the end of the tunnel!!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Ami

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2007, 06:18:49 PM »
What hit me in the posts(some of them) was the idea that the N  parent tried to  deliberately keep us down.
I realized this with my N mother. It is a huge shock that a parent would not want the best for the kids.
  Maybe, I am naive,but it seems that it is against nature for a parent to want to keep the child down in any way.
  I still don't totally accept it in my heart because I guess that it hurts too much
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

bean as guest

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2007, 10:51:39 PM »
hi RA,


I very much do understand this dynamic you've described so well.

Yes, an adult child of narcissistic parents has a lot of "learned" pessimism.

We also have a hell of a lot of tenacity and recoursefulness.

So, are we better off or worse off?

I don't know. 

One thing I do know is that you can control your destiny.  No matter what your upbringing, you can decide if tomorrow will be gloom & doom, sunshine & roses, or somewhere in between - and hey- it's all OK.

hugs,
bean

debkor

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2007, 11:33:03 PM »
Ami,

I don't know what it is like to have a mom who is an N so I might be blowing air here but I was married to an N.  I don't think that N's are any different if they are a mother, a friend, a sister, daughter, son, husband or wife.  I went through hell and back with my husband so I could never imagine how you feel that the N in your life was your Mom.  I am very sorry Ami that is so hard.  I will not even pretend to say I know how you feel, not with a mom because I don't, but I know how you feel with the pain an N caused you.  That is the only thing I can say.  It must of been horrible to always look for what you needed from a mom but she was not there and I mean that, she could not give you what she does not have and what she did have she certainly gave away to you, pain, abuse and misery.  It was hers Ami not yours.  She pushed off onto you.  You were to young to know, to deal with, to understand.  She gave all her *fu*k**d thinking, anger, pain, blame to you.  You did not know.  How would you?  You internalized this for years.  What she could not give to you she made you think it was something you could not give to her. That is how she survives, breaths, lives. 

Can anyone Ami?    Can anyone fix her?    Can anyone make her see she had a loving daughter, husband?  Can anyone make her sorry? Can anyone make her examine herself? Can anyone make her be responsible for what she did to others?  NO Amy, NO ONE!!!  Not unless they approve and can do brain transplants then maybe there would be a chance. 
She still is draining you hon without even having to lift a finger to do it.  Don't give her power anymore Ami.
They are missing Ami!! She never will find herself or if there is a self anymore. 
She is the walking zombie like you say.  Zombies don't sit and chat or ask what you think or feel. They are there for one thing to eat you up like she has done to you for years.  The movies zombies feed off flesh.  The N zombies feed off emotions.  The later is the one you are dealing with.

You are alive Ami.  I listen to you speak and feel.  You so right there.  You are awake and grieving now.  I want to welcome you to the beginning of the end of your pain.  Welcome to healing Ami.  That is what you are doing.

For all the things your mother could not say to you I will.  I'm glad your here.  I'm glad she gave life to you.  Your a smart beautiful person. I'm glad I met you and you add to my life.

Heres to you Ami!!!! You matter!!! Your Important!!

Don't you ever forget that!

Love
Deb 


tayana

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2007, 12:12:31 AM »
Here, here Deb.  What you wrote was right on!  I found it very inspiring, even though it was written to Ami.  I hope she does too.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

debkor

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2007, 12:59:09 AM »
Tayana,

Sometimes I type faster then I think.  Tayana this applies to you also.  I am so sorry. This is for all of us. I should have put that in the end because I really mean that.

Love
Deb
 


poetprose

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Re: Pessimism and N Parents
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2007, 06:30:29 AM »
>>>it has to do with taking control of your own thoughts, and changing the inner "self talk" that we have within ourselves during any given situation. In short, it gives a very clear path to becoming a more optimistic, postive person - and gives enough evidence to support that this is possible. (at least for the layman like me<<<


excellent!

I have not read this book, but I already love it!! :-)