Relationship Readiness

[Ami]

I have had this thread in the back of my mind for awhile.. I could have left my H for a man who was so much worse of an N. I escaped  by a 'thread".When I hear you  describe N traits,I realize that this man had so many more "hard core " N traits than my H.
   This man would laugh if people got diseases. He would go to the grocery store so he could laugh at the "cripples" riding those motorized carts.He once told me that he could kill a man at night and forget about it in the morning.
   When I write this, I am appalled at myself for having such a close relationship with him. However, at the time, he made a joke(half joke) about these things.also, I was completely  alone  in the world and in the process of losing my mind.
   My H(if he is an N or not) would never have anyone killed. This man could have had someone killed if he had a reason for it
   I am writing this because I am thinking about what let me get in a relationship with him and also my H.
  I think that I know the answer. I wanted someone to give me too much. I wanted someone to do for me what I need to do for myself. IOW, I need to define myself, not look to another to define me. I need to value myself,not look to another to decide if I have value and then tell me about it.
 I was a "walking hole" of needs looking to find a person to tell me about "who i was". I guess that that is why I got the caliber person that I did.                         Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

(((Axa!)))

That was such a joy to read!
I would do the happy dance but I don't know what it looks like and I imagine I'd look very undignified. 

I am really tickled to see you celebrating yourself. I just love it.

love
Hops

[Hopalong]

Hi Ami,
I think you're getting clarity at such an amazing speed.

I can't see anything BUT a good future for you.
I know you'll find your way through.

hugs
Hops

[WRITE]

I would not expect my partner to be `perfect'....like being happy all the time, and having himself `all figured out' . I know how it feels when someone expects that of me as a condition of their love, and it didn't feel very acheivable or very loving.

how interesting Bella French that you should write this, because this morning I was thinking I have gained a few pounds, been a bit grouchy and broken a couple of commitments this past two weeks since the stress increased; I have very high standards for myself on these things and suddenly I thought do I apply these standards to others uniformly now? And I think I do a bit, I have that fervent zeal of a new religious convert who still cannot relax and let G_d do it. I am trying too hard I guess.

I need to cut myself and others some slack.

Just because things were horrible at times with ex, I can't control everything and everyone from now on!

Including myself; this perfectionism is creepign back and it's not healthy.

your `list' reflects your values, and I think they are very beautiful ones. They show that you are a wonderful person and I have no doubt that whoever you man is, or will be, he will be so lucky to have you.

that is such a kind thing to say.

And that's the most important thing about a potential partner- their values. They don't have to be perfect, just have good solid kind values to fall back on.

I probably over-identify. I just remember how I felt after exiting my empty marriage...how incredibly eager I was for a new relationship. In my case (probably not true for you) it kept me a little blinkered about pink/red/rosy flags.

maybe a little Hops, I mean I haven't been on a date in almost two years!
I've spent ages getting to know a few men and figuring out how they think and behave and what I like about them etc.

Also I feel very much like in that book you recommended, don't be hung up on the outcome.

I can't get into casual flings because of my bipolar, so I am only really prepared to do friends or a serious love relationship; there's not much in between for me, it's too hard to manage the bipolar triggered by the hormones and emotions....

But it makes me careful more than ever too. Too careful really, I think I may scare away most men! Which isn't a bad thing if all they want is sex: I can't do casual sex, it's not an option with my illness.

Funny how so much of what I live has very conservative values in its best interest, if I'd lived in 1850 maybe I wouldn't have had bipolar? I've always said modern life makes it worse!

I think that the answers will come step by step, as I get whole     

I think that's right Ami, it's funny things which I can 'hear' now I just know I blanked out even a couple of years ago.
And this being in balance thing, it's fragile and precarious sometimes, but there's no running around no drinking and no return to ex....something shifts over time as we become stronger and more sure of ourselves again.

 Don;t know if anyone would wait that long for me to make up my mind but heck I am enjoying myself in the meantime.

and some won't Axa.
El Crusho as Hops christened him last year did not want to see me as a friend; as soon as I said dating wasn't on the cards he stopped calling.
It has over time faded the attraction and slowly we are becoming just friends and no hurt feelings.

I don't think I told y'all though my best friend here has stopped calling; that was unresolved but again i will wait and it will right itself when he meets someone else. I really don't have feelings for him beyond fondness and friendship so I am not even prepared to explain myself, if he had been honest and asked me out when he developed feelings we would have resolved it without getting attached first.

And that's the other thing important for us nurturing types who have supported difficult people and difficult relationships- other people's feelings are almost never our responsibility!

In some ways I married ex the first time because I didn't want to hurt him having been somewhat conflicted and changeable.

Now I realise the best thing is back off when unsure what to do, but then I was so fixated on resolution....even if it meant unhappiness I'd rather choose it and have done!

It's great being single too though as Axa says, I have never had such peace or freedom before.

I'd really love to know this guy betetr, but he too obviously wants slowness, we have moved together then apart over and over; maybe the timing just isn't right yet, or we're not healed enough or something.

I like that he doesn't push for anything though, he doesn't judge and he has made me feel special and attractive at this transitional time when I'm still more caterpillar than butterfly.

If it's not meant to be it's not meant to be, I won't fight for or push for anything; just stay true to my values and continue to observe and enjoy life.

***

MY shoulder pain is almost gone, I am going to start a diet tomorrow to tackle my feelign of out-of-control, which comes whenever I gain weight.

Ex is still being moddy and difficult some of the time, but more petulant than scary.

I haven't seen much of him and I've reworked my schedule to keep it like that.

[Ami]

Dear Hops
  Thanks for that cyberspace  "Atta Boy". I needed it. I have had an almost constant panic attack for 3 days. I did not know what was wrong with me,but I looked up panic attacks amd found my symptom..
   I don't know. I have been  feeling really.... badly.I feel really dizzy. All of a sudden i just "saw" all the family relationships. I get dizzy every time that I talk to anyone in my family. or even think about any of the relationships.
     I see that my H is an N or a good dose of N traits. I see the Golden boy and the "despised" child. i see that my mother threw all the qualities that she hated in herself on me---dependency,fearfulness etc. She would scream at me,""YOUR SO DEPENDENT.'Now, I see that that was her.
 I never had a panic attack like this before,but I never saw my whole history is one fell swoop before.
Pray for me ,please, because I just want these stmptoms to go away      Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

Ami,
Try taking a small/med brown paper sack and position it loosely over your mouth and nose, breathe into it until your symptoms ease. Sure-fire cure for hyperventilation, which is the core physical symptom in many panic attacks.

hugs
Hops

[Ami]

Thanks Hops
  I am going to take one with me.          Love and a Big Hug    Ami

[Bella_French]

Dear Ami,
Oh I know that feeling! Hold on sweet one; you will be ok. It is so stressful on our bodies when something scarey in our subconscious mind makes its way into our consciousness. I wish I knew a way to make it easier for you. When i was going through the worst of it, I would get heart palpatations so badly, that I went to the emerceny ward twice. The anxiety made me dizzy and it amost felt as if it were being carried through my blood! I fainted a couple of times too. If you can get to a chemist, I would recommend buying some Vitamin B tablets and take 2 of them in the mornings. They seem to replenish something in our bodies when the stress gets too much. Vitamin B also seemed to take away most of the symptoms of anxiety adn panic attacks.

HUGS to you AMi!! Please don't be scared; this phase wll pass, I promise you:)

[Brigid]

Hi Write,
Re:  Your list:

1. attractive/attracted
2. manages their life
3. spiritually in balance
4. lives a healthy lifestyle
5. is happy
6. we have significant interests in common: music, writing, nature especially
7. compassionate/ kind / non-abusive
8. likes children & pets & family life
9. shares my values: eg. faithfulness, monogamy, interfaith, feminism, love of G_d, social responsibility, commited to personal growth
10. good sense of humour, good-humoured!

As someone who has been where you are/have been, I would agree with these values/character traits.  Because I am a bit older than you, I would probably also add "has a compatible view of the future as we move into the retirement years."  That would never have been something I would have considered in my 40's, but as I approach my 60's, my children are (for the most part) out of the home, and I hopefully have many more years to enjoy--I want it to be with someone who sees those later years in the same light as I do.  I think it is important that you both have activities that are done apart from one another, but that you have things in common that can still be enjoyed as aging sets in.

Something else I would add to the list from a practical standpoint is a compatible view of money and how it is saved and spent.  I went from my first xh who totally controlled all the money, to my second xh who had no control of money and how to spend or save and I had to make sure the bills were paid every month--even when there was barely enough to cover them.  Differing views of money can cause so much stress in a relationship no matter how similar your other values are, so if you can talk openly about how you each personally manage finances up front, you can hopefully have a handle on that from the beginning.  I guess some of this goes hand in hand with my first point--as there needs to be enough money to support you once you have retired.  I know I am dealing with a lot of stress about this right now, so it is coming to the surface more and more for me these days.

The last thing I would add to the list is that your partner has friends that you like and vice versa.  Also, that your friends like him and feel he is a good choice for you.  You are never going to universally like all the people he hangs out with, but once you are a couple, you want to have other couples to socialize with, and you want it to be a combination of your friends and his.  If he doesn't have guy friends, I think that is a huge red flag--or if his friends are all jerks--also a big red flag.

They say it takes as long as 2 years for the initial euphoria of a new relationship to wear off so you can really see the person for who they are.  I am happy to say that my b/f and I have crossed that line and I love him more than ever.  I would say that he passes the test on all your points.  He is a good man, who loves and is loved by his children, is happy with his life and also makes me very happy (and it is important to him that I am happy), who would be there for me at any time that I needed him--emotionally and physically, and we still enjoy sex as much as ever.

I hope that the relationship you are flirting with turns into something wonderful.  Good for you to be taking your time and evaluating as you go.  If it is not meant to be, it won't be.  I'm confident that you are prepared to make that decision now.  That you are now able to move away from your ex emotionally as well as physically, is a huge step for you.  I am very happy for you.

All the best,
Brigid

[Hopalong]

BRIGID YOU ARE MY ROLE MODEL!
I want to grow up to be your half of a happy relationship.
(Next year when I'm 58...) 

Hops

Hi Write,
I've seen a terrific little book called the 100 Questions that's intended to help couples think straight while they're all woozy on love. About a future together. I think I'd read it again before I dated again...have you seen it? Might be helpful to you.

xo
Hops

[axa]

Storm,

think you are right there are warning signs from day 1 but I am not so smart at picking them up... only retrospectively.  Thought I had it sorted when I met XN but my difficult is knowing when to give up and go......... anyway no fear of meeting someone in the wilderness where I live right now and not too interested in socializing.

Hops,

I'll join you in the happy dance anyday!  Feeling good enough and peaceful at the moment.

axa

[WRITE]

my difficult is knowing when to give up and go......... anyway no fear of meeting someone in the wilderness where I live right now

it's funny I felt like that here in TX suburbs, yet I have truly met more men than in any other city. I think somehow the universe draws people in  at different times of life.

Thanks Hops, I looked it up:

The Hard Questions: 100 Essential Questions to ask before you say 'I do' by Susan Piver.

I just ordered it for 90 cents plus postage!
I'll let you know if it's useful....

a compatible view of money and how it is saved and spent.

interesting you should mention this Brigid, I only thought last night how much of a weapon money is ina  marriage. My ex mentioned he is stashign away large sums; after all these years of frittering it away then nagging me then refusing to comply with whatever savings plans we decide....I gave up years ago trying to manage ex on it- he would always pay a bill and always go to work and was well paid so we never got into any problems but it was always totally out of my say-so though I would be blamed as if it were me if ex felt anxious anytime...

I've been really assertive with him about money since we separated, but I also know he isn't reliable, if he changed his mind and stopped paying my alimony or whatever he does- it will probably be something about power. Att the moment he's still feeling guilty about some of the things he has done, but I have seen that switch off before.

I don't count on anything with him, not even his relationship with our son; I've seen him change before, it is literally like a switch off and on.

Part of moving on is finally accepting these things for what they are, making the best of today and not taking it personally when the NPD overrides any positive.

Good for you to be taking your time and evaluating as you go.  If it is not meant to be, it won't be.

Thanks Brigid, that's exactly how I feel, if I am too slow forthe guy well he's not the guy for me. Especially me- I will always have to manage my bipolar first and foremost which often means backing off and prioritising calmness and stability!

That you are now able to move away from your ex emotionally as well as physically, is a huge step for you.  I am very happy for you.

I was scared for a long time, thinking I had to manage ex to benefit my family; maybe I did. But it's an impossible task too, and self-sacrifice won't make the outcome different...

What is different now is that even though I really want things for me, and I am starting to feel optimistic and confident, I'm not letting itrun away with me.

Taking things slow is hard for impetuous me, but I know if I don't I'll sabotage some of my progress.

We can't rely on others to look after us- it took me years to realise that, and especially that I was looking to people to care for me whose motives were more about abuse and control.

The new man I feel exactly as Brigid says- if it's meant to be then it'll work out; if not, well, it's like with the Wendy Cope poem I'll put below- there'll be another along in a while 

Bl**dy men are like bl**dy buses
You wait for about a year
And as soon as one approaches your stop
Two or three others appear.

You look at them flashing their indicators,
Offering you a ride.
You're trying to read the destinations,
You haven't much time to decide.

If you make a mistake, there is no turning back.
Jump off, and you'll stand there and gaze
While the cars and the taxis and lorries go by
And the minutes, the hours, the days.

Except I'll be filling the minutes hours and days with interesting stuff and not be too worried!

[Brigid]

BRIGID YOU ARE MY ROLE MODEL!

Thanks, Hops  .  Very sweet of you to say.  Us mid-50+ girls have to stick together.  I have the 57th coming in a few weeks, but I don't dread them anymore.  Each one is a blessing and I am now proud of my age.


Write,

I was scared for a long time, thinking I had to manage ex to benefit my family; maybe I did. But it's an impossible task too, and self-sacrifice won't make the outcome different...

I totally understand this.  My xnh did not give me the option to keep us together for the sake of the family, but I'm sure I would have made that choice if allowed to.  No, self-sacrifice will not make the outcome different.  It will only delay the inevitable.  How my children will deal with the legacy of their father's infidelity, our divorce, etc., is now only their choice to make.  I have done all that I could to get them to this point and now their life choices will be their own.  So far, they are doing fine.

Taking things slow is hard for impetuous me, but I know if I don't I'll sabotage some of my progress.

I also understand this.  I, too, can be impetuous, but I also value security.  I have felt very unstable and at loose ends about my future for some time, but have had to learn to live with it and actually embrace it as other aspects of my life are becoming more settled.  I have learned that security comes one step at a time.  I have rushed to that point in the past, only to realize that I really didn't know the person with whom I was trying to establish the security.

We can't rely on others to look after us- it took me years to realise that, and especially that I was looking to people to care for me whose motives were more about abuse and control.

I really understand this.  It was what we were taught in our FOO.  I sometimes long for (in the words of Dr. Phil) a "soft place to fall," but know I need to remain vigilant in looking out for my best interests.

I hope it continues to go well for you.

Brigid

[Brigid]

S&S,

I make a list of the bad traits I could live with in a partner,
and another list of the traits I couldnt.

This was actually how I approached the dating process also.  I did have absolute traits I wanted in a partner, i.e., a man with children, who had a good relationship with his kids; as I wanted him to understand the role my children played in my life.  But it was mostly about what were the deal breakers and what could be compromised upon.  The older we are, the more compromises there are to make, IMO. 

I think this is why only 50% of baby boomers are currently married.  Many who have gone through divorce or the death of a spouse, are unwilling to give up the freedoms that being single allows.  I am beginning to understand this, the longer I am single, but I still see remarriage as the option I would choose--if the right person is available.

Brigid

[Hopalong]

I read once about making those lists with

MUST HAVE      NICE TO HAVE     CANNOT HAVE

Then, I think --not sure I'm remembering it right-- even assigning importance to each so they're all numbered.

That way, helps you discover the urgency/priority of each.

Sigghh. I remember one of those cards mouldering in the bottom of my purse while I became enraptured with an N.

Arrgghh,
Hops