Need advice

[sheehs1]

Hi everyone.  I found this board last night and joined immediiately.  Long story short, I have dealt with a lot of N's in my life.  Have spent many years becoming both as knowledgeable as possible, protecting myself and/or extricating myself from the situation.  My N"s have included my father, my older sister, my first husband...etc. 
However, my current situation is why I am posting.  I am not happy in my marriage and don't know what to do.  I have been married for almost 15 years.  During that time, I have financially supported and provided.  I have been the "provided", the maid and housekeeper, the yard man, the repair person, the person who strips and stains our decks.  With the projects to keep ouir home in shape...etc.  I physically do a lot of this work myself.  As the years have gone by, this type of work is no longer enjoyable to me and I physically am getting tired of it. 
Cutting to the chase, I am married to a golfer who spends all of his free time on the golf course.  When I ask him for help, he tells me "to do it myself".  We do not share any interests other than our "blended" children.  We do not go to church, because he is on the golf course.  He did not make it to his "own" sons college graduation because he played in a golf tournament and did not want to wake up and drive the 3 hours necessary to get to the graduation on time (this spring). 
I am always "alone".  We do not have couple friends that we do anything with.  He has his golfing buddies.  I have my friends...but it is hard to do things with them at night...as they are with their husbands and other friends.  We eat in separate dens, we watch t.v. in separate dens..etc...etc..  Mainly because he is glued to the sports and gambling channels.  He has come and gone pretty much as he pleases all of our married life. 
In the past when he got himself into a gambling, investment situation and lost a lot of money, he became angry and "left" when I would not bail him out of it.  For 12 years, he would get angry and leave the house. The first time he devastated my young daughter (he had adopted her)..and I have probably never forgiven him for that....not really. 
Because of his leaving like this, there is a level of trust that is not there.  I do not trust him with my money...or to provide for me...or to help me build a life. 
While he has helped his first wife financially with child support and gives me something to live here, he truthfully has never had any primary responsiblity for raising children, building a home, financing a life.  He is always in the "helping mode".  He helps, but doesn't have the responsibility. 
I do not feel I have a partner...and when I say something I may as well be talking to a brick wall. 
So.
It has been like this the large marjority of our marriage.  Because I had children and had my work (at that time) to keep me very busy, and because we had both been divorced .....family was my priority ..I did what I could to keep our family together.  The children are now basically grown ....and I am lonely.  I should have predicted this.  In fact I did. 

I can hold my own financially and do not need this.  I told him Friday night , I had had it....that I will not live my next 25 years like I have lived the last 15, that I wanted a divorce and I wanted him to leave......and asked him to go to the "apartment he conveniently built for himself over his business".  He won't go. I told him I wished him no harm but that it was clear golf was his priority and golf is what made him happy.  That was o.k. But that it does not make me happy.  Living with him with golf...is not what I want and that my needs are not getting met.  etc..etc...  Where has he been since this conversation?  On the golf course.

All I know is that I do not like my life with him.  It is pimarily the golf, the gambling trips with his buddies, the golf trips with his buddies , holding up in our bedroom when he is home watching sports, my doing all the details of our lives in the house and not giving me the time of day.  We spend virtually no time together doing much of aything.  If by chance we go to a mall on the occasionaly afternoon (rare), he is not enjoyable to be around. 

Several years ago, when he left in anger....he came back into our home and "took" furniture I had purchased for our home....to put in his new apartment he built over his office....while I was at "work".!!!  BAsically he snuck in with a friend....behind my back and took stuff I had paid for.    He   We were separated for 9 months.  I had legal papers drawn up.  He came and cried and told me he knew he had not been a good husband and promised to do better.  That lasted about 6 months. 
 
The other parts of my life are fine.  I know that if "nothing changes, nothing changes".  And I know it is up to me to make the changes in my life...that may lead to some open doors...allowing some positive things in.  I will be sad as I will miss seeing the step sons I have raised. 

We live in a small community where "everyone" knows "everyone". 
Any adivce or thoughts ...will be appreciated.

Sandra


 

[Hopalong]

Welcome, Sandra.

I come it from a different angle, having been divorced twice. I would like to marry again. I would like a happy marriage. That said, if I married a third time, even, and found out I'd done it wrong, I wouldn't spend another day of my precious life in an empty, unhappy relationship.

If you wanted to ask him to enter marital counseling with you and he said yes immediately and threw his heart into it, and you did as well...then maybe...

But it sounds as though you're decided, you know what's realistic.

And he sounds as though he has his priorities straight: golf, gambling, golf buddies, gambling buddies, a few projects, last and perhaps not even on the list, "wife."

My thoughts are biased, but I know that I wouldn't do it again. Wouldn't stay and trytrytrytrytry unless the trying were mutual and heartfelt on both sides.

Hops

[sheehs1]

Thanks for responding. 
Ami,
I understand what you are saying.  I have looked at myself and my biological family and have actually been in counseling over the years for it.  It was thru this process I determined my father and older sister were N's.  Dealing with both of them inside our family business was a  horrible and earth shattering experience for me.  The details of which I may go into later...but for now...suffice it to that I had to go to the outside...and enlist the help of lawyers...etc.. ..because my own sister wanted to destroy me financially so she could control the family businesss..etc. 
So....for the past 15 years I have learned about all of this. And....the positive side of it is that had I not relocated and gone to work for the family business...I probably never would have known what exactly was wrong with my biological family.
I know that affected my choices in life.  But I have moved on from those things "past" or have tried to.  The one remainining thing has been this marriage. 
Hopi,
I have asked for marriage counseling...many times.  He won't go.  At this point, I , myself, am beyond caring.  The energy I have left , I want directed towards enhancing my life.  Part of this is my fault.  I have allowed "the affects" to drag me down.  I blame myself for what I have chosen not to do to change my life.   I think I have been somewhat depressed for about 2years now.  I am ready to move on.  I hind site...I think I was trying to "fix" my marriage before I moved on....thinking it was fixable.    I am now flipping that...and will try to move on without caring about the marriage.   
For the last 15 years, the most important thing to me was "family".  I see now that I was trying to incorporate him into my life...never really believing he didn't really want that.  Bottom line, he has had a sweet life with me.  I have provided everything...including our home. 
And on the surface, one would think he is no slouch.  He owns his own CPA firm...yet...being in a rual area...it doesn't do as well as one might think...etc..etc.  He is handsome by some peoples standards and he is nice to everyone else.  He simply pays me his wife no attention and treats me like I am the maid,....and all those other things I stated.  In asking for his help to repaint the front steps and the back, he said..."...you can do it".  This was Friday.  It is the "sharing" of goals and a life....that is missing.  We live separate lives...inside our home.  And it is sad.
It has had probably horrible affects on my own daughter.   At the time , I didn't know what else to do.  I just kept trying.  Well..she is now almost 20....just finished her first year of college and her mom....me....is ready to change things. Ami
Last night...I told him I meant every word I said....and that "I meant him no harm".  That I have accepted golf makes him happy.  That golf does't make me happy.  That not having a partner doesn't make me happy..ec.  That he is free to pursue his golf...but that I will not live this way the next 25 years.  etc.  I really wasn't angry.  Just resigned and "accepting" of facing "the truth about our marriage". 
So...in light of this conversation between us the last 2 days......he has played "golf" all day every day. 

Oh and Ami.....there have been separations...some of them due to his anger...so it is not as if....I have been a doormat or anything.  Because of my knowledge of my biological experience and family dysfunction...I have simply tried to make sure....my marriage was not like that.  WEll....it is almost exactly like that.  I told myself 15 years ago..this would not happen and that I would only accept certain things in a marriage.  Supporting someone so they get to come and go and not have responsiblity is not something I ever wanted.   
Sandra



 

[sheehs1]

Oh and thank you guys so so much for responding.  I forgot to add that my battle scars over the last years with my biological family took all of my self confidence and it has taken me three years to get back to this point. I am having to reinvent myself professionally.  Add those scars to the ones infllicted by my husband when he would get angry, leave and leave me "holding the bag" so to speak....and I was one broken soul...all the way around. 
This is about survival for me.  Emotional survival.  Self confidence...baby steps...etc.  My trust or abandonment issues are mine..but they have been "taught" to me....thru his leaving.  His golf and his obsession with it and his buddies...feel like abandonment to me. 
His not wanting to do interesting things with me feels like abandonment.  I cook, I clean, I do and right now...there is not much from him that I need.  I have survived on minimal for so long...not even sure I would know what a healthy relationship feels like. 
So I ask you: 
Is it too much for him to play golf 2 or more times during the week, go to the driving range right after work and play every day of every week-end?  I say yes.  Even if there is one or two week-ends where he doesn't play ...isn't that too much.  See...I am questioning myself even now?  And playing to the exclusion of being able to "add" other things into our lives? 
I have tried hard not to make this about golf....because it is not "about golf".  It is about his obsession with it and using it as a reason for not doing other things. Beause he doesn't want to do other things...right?? 

Have't heard from him all day....he may be gone for the night.  This is the "immature" form of communication that he resorts to. 
I'd rather have an adult conversation and agreement but that has never been possible.  So he leaves, doesn't communicate his leaving and leaves us guessing.  Don't get me wrong.  Yes I wanted him to go.  I just don't like the games he plays by doing it this way.  Nothing to settled.  He simply exits. 

 Thanks,
Sandra

[Ami]

Dear Sandra,
   I hear your cry for help.I am so sorry that you are hurting so badly. I feel too inadequate right now to give any advice. If it were me, I would wish that my husband would play golf 24---7. I guess that I am not too much help.
                                                                                                   A big hug to you      Am

[Hopalong]

Sandra,
If he won't go into counseling with you and doesn't give a damn about how you feel...

??

Hops

[sheehs1]

Ami,
I here you and I appreciate your thoughts.  It can be overwhelming to try to comment on "these" types of situations. 
Hopi...no...he won't go to counseling.  I have asked for this many times over the last 2 years.
No...I don't think he cares how I feel.  His actions have always told me that. He says he does..but his actions say something different. 

Know what I did today?  I am enrolling in a program at a college that is about an hour away.  I am going to take finanacial planning courses and get the Certified Financial Planning Status.  This is totally different from anything I have ever done.  I was in medical research, information systems  an operations business analyst for a bank and Vice President of a family business.  I am excited...to be putting some steps for my life in place.  I have not worked in three years ..due to the other situation I was talking about with our family business.....and I so need to do something...to invest in myself and my life.  It starts August 1st..and is  1 night a week for a year. Might see if I can find a faster track.  I don't want to do it online...as that just keeps me stuck in the house.  I want to be "out..meeting people....and sitting in new situations". 

My husband came home tonight...and went to bed in another bedroom .  Fine by me...I don't care.

Sandra

[Sally]

Hi Sandra,

You sound very intelligent and competent.  So glad you are investing in yourself and seeking economic independence.

Good to hear you're moving forward and are intent in making yourself feel fulfilled.

Love,
Sally

[dandylife]

Sandra,
It sounds like this has been your routine for a very long time. You have accepted is thus far. So why would he feel like suddenly now it's NOT okay with you?

Sometimes, people need to hear things from people other than their spouse. This man needs a counselor (think Dr. Phil) who can say, "How's that working for you?" with a straight face and expect him to give an accountable answer.

Insist upon counseling so you don't have to be the "bad guy" who takes his toy away (golf).

Dandylife

[Ami]

Dear Sandra,
    Your question was not overwhelming at all. I have asked many of the same questions on the board.
   For the last 3 days, I have had an almost continual panic attack. All of a sudden ,my life from childhood on became clear to me.
    I felt really dizzy  I meant that I was dealing with this,not that your question was too involved. This board is for involved questions                                           Love  Ami

[sheehs1]

Dear Ami,
I am sorry you are dealing with the "your life from childhood" and the clarity and possible pain that comes from "connecting some dots".  I remember dealing with these and it is a shock when you realize the reality you thought is not really how things were.
I understood that you were dealing with your own pain....and I did not want my post to take away from "your energy".  That is more of what I meant.  I was reading some other posts...and I think I saw where there is a narcissitic family thread.  I will try to read more of those and respond...because I may be able to help somewhat.   Hugs to you ,
Sandra

[sheehs1]

Dear DandyLife,
It has been the routine...and there have been times of acceptance and many times outright non-acceptance. My health has suffered somewhat from all of it.....from the biological family stuff...to this.

It is not as if "he hasn't known" all along how I have felt about this.  He has.  In fact, several years ago we were separated for 9 months....and he came with tears...telling me he knew he had not been a good or supportive husband and that he promised to do better..etc.  You guys have probably heard this drill before.  At the time, my own needs to have a family clouded the way.  Also at the time, I was working, raising my daughter...and trying to "build that family and the bonds". 

 I have diagnosed adrenal fatigue and am on medication for it...taking hydrocortisone to supplement my cortisol.  Have been going to a doctor for 2 years to help me...and we just found out about my cortisol levels in March.  I am suppose to be living...with as little stress as possible and I don't think I can do that as long as this continued.....feeling like I am the maid ..."stuck", "unappreciated".......continues. 

So...I have contributed to where I am now....in allowing him back...and not taking steps to change.  But...I did so with the best of intentions....realizing sacrifices or compromises are needed to "have a family"....and for "your family".  It just isn't enough for me now.   
 
I hope this makes some sense .
Sandra

[sheehs1]

Dear Sallly,
I used to be very competent...and had lost that the last three plus years.  Am trying...
Thanks for your support and encouragment. 
Sandra

[dandylife]

Sandra,
Yes, I hear you. You are like (excuse the metaphor I mean this in the best way) a donkey carrying the big big burden.

You are the one holding everything together and your seams are about to burst!

You are a hugely responsible person and your children have had a great example to learn from.

But you are staggering under the weight and your husband needs to step up and take some of that burden from you.

You will probably need to be dramatic in order for him to hear you.

Firm - "Honey, I need you to X. If you don't X, then I'm afraid I'll have to Y. If you do X, I'll be happy to stay in this relationship and continue a PARTNERSHIP with you."

Then tell him specifics.

Monday - This is how the day will be. As soon as those responsibilities are fulfilled and there is extra time, then off you go - to the golf course. Proceed through the whole week.

Spell it out, because he is behaving like a 3 year old who hasn't gotten disciplined or had boundaries put down.

You are in a tough spot because your voice needs to be heard and respected. You are like the kid in class, waving his hand vigorously, but being ignored by the teacher.

Don't let him have that "authority" over you. You should be equals in your life together.

Dandylife

[Stormchild]

Hi Sheehs1 [hope I got that right]

This is a gut reaction response, so take it with whatever condiments you like best - a grain of salt, a little mustard - 

If I were you, next time he takes off for an overnighter as a way of punishing you, I'd change the locks and have his matched luggage all packed and waiting for him when he returns. He'll already have his golf clubs, so you won't have to fool with those.

His actions constitute abandonment, and if you have experienced enough of it, over a long enough period, it may very well make a case for you in a divorce settlement. Talk to a lawya, and make sure you get a bulldog, if you hire one. You don't need a placating puppy in a process like this, you need a shark. Unfortunate but true.

Again, this is from my gut; it reflects my own personal experiences and may not be the best option for you; but I think that most of the "Sturm und Drang" that we ladies get from clowns like your hub-bub is deliberate and intended to keep us off balance, helpless, out of whack, easy pickin's.

You don't even need to throw the bum out; he keeps throwing himself out!

Confession time - I've never been married, but I lived with my ex long enough to be just about a month shy of common law marriage. So what you want to do is look at the posting history here from a couple members who have gone through this - brigid, mum, and most lately, write. You can click on their name to go to their profile, and at the bottom there's an option called 'show the last posts of this person'; that gives you the posting history. Reading through their stories will give you some awe inspiring profiles in female courage. They went through the worst transitions a woman can go through, and they came out of it whole, balanced, grounded.

Hang in there, and hang in here too. Welcome - belatedly but sincerely . And best of luck with this. There is no easy way out, but there is a way out.