Author Topic: getting ready to face the lion  (Read 13745 times)

P

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getting ready to face the lion
« on: July 25, 2003, 10:05:41 PM »
Last summer my husband, myself and our two teenagers made our annual trek to vist my n-raging mother.  We survived, but not without a few battle wounds.  Typical (i think) of an n's daughter I teeter on the edge of an abyss whenever I'm around her.  I'm also not yet able to NOT go back to visit her.  Part of the web is that my husband's n-mother lives in the same Province and we (metaphorically) try to kill two birds with one stone - except we're usually the ones who end up "killed".  So now the plane tickets have been purchased and my anxiety level is just starting to surface.  WHAT AM I DOING THIS FOR?  I'm extremely critical of myself right now and feel like this is not a very responsible decision.  Sometimes I think that the only progress I make is in my head!

Anika

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Try this
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2003, 08:55:15 AM »
I just posted a link to a great site. It is listed under the Lots of good information here thread.

I never thought I would be able to speak to my mother again but this site and the one I posted have helped me so much!  Just knowing about and understanding her condition have changed my entire outlook on the situation. I know now that she is mentally ill (PERIOD) and that I am not! That fact in and of itself changes EVERYTHING! It changes how I perceive her and how I deal with her.

Go to that site that I posted and read sections on verbal abuse. There are links along the left side of the page to the different informative sections. My favorites were the 20 traits, verbal abuse 1 and 2, and the "what is a narcissist?" sections. The "What is a Narcissist?" section is the actual diagnosis description of NPD from the DSM.

I hope this site helps you as much as it did me.

Neko

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2003, 03:17:33 PM »
P - as another daughter of a narcissistic mother, I can definitely relate to the feeling of being at the edge of an abyss! Unlike Anika I always knew my mother was mentally ill (diagnoses from several therapists, she never went to one long enough to make any progress though, and usually managed to place much of the blame for the stress she was under on... you guessed it... her kids). It makes very little difference to me now, as an adult, to know that she's mentally ill. I understand her better knowing that she's a narcissist, but deep down, it doesn't change the fact that she never made a true effort to change, and never listened to her children.

Personally, I needed to listen to my gut as an adult and stay away from my parents for a long time. I considered cutting off all contact, but eventually settled on only talking with them when I feel like it. This was difficult, as I felt pretty selfish for doing it, and my n-mom's favorite thing to accuse me of as a child was selfishness. But slowly, it was as if my sorely abused inner child finally started to feel respected, and came out of her shell - she knew I wasn't going to let her be attacked. (That may sound a little weird, but it's the best way I can find to describe it :) ) It all happened at the same time that I started reading up on narcissism on the web and in books - a big thanks to Dr. Grossman for his website, it really struck a chord with me, still does.

Now I manage a phone call with them once a month or so. They try to call twice a week, but I let the answering machine get it. I live far enough away that they can't drop in on me without notice, although a year ago they managed to set up a near-surprise visit, for two weeks, that drove me raving mad. During that visit I set boundaries with them, in front of my husband. They promptly crossed them a month later with one of the most scathing, ruthless character assassinations I've ever experienced, so I restated the boundaries, cut off contact for a while, and ever since they've been manageable. Barely. My mother still launches an attack out of nowhere every once in a while, but by email since she can't get it out of her system on the phone anymore. The nice thing about email is that there's no terrifying face and voice behind the words, y'know? :) That and you can hit "delete"! It's a lot easier to see that the attacks are totally out of touch with reality when you can re-read the words a few times. That helps too, realizing that no, you didn't make up all those outrageous attacks from your childhood (my mother always told me I imagined the worst things about her and was an awful, selfish, lying, ungrateful child for it... :roll: )

Best of luck with your mom :) In short my advice would be to follow your gut feelings, don't betray them!

Anika

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Projection
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2003, 08:46:41 AM »
Quote from: Neko
This was difficult, as I felt pretty selfish for doing it, and my n-mom's favorite thing to accuse me of as a child was selfishness.


Don't you just love projection??? :x

I don't think my mother knows that she has NPD. She has never been to a psy., and although I am not qualified to diagnose her, after reading the diagnosis criteria, studying the site I posted, and listening to you all, I can honestly say that my mother is TEXTBOOK!!!

For me just knowing that she is sick makes all the difference in the world and it gives me the upper hand since she doesn't know that she is sick and she doesn't know that I know she is sick...does that make since?

Neko, did you look at that site I posted? It may help you to understand too. The verbal abuse and 20 malignant traits are what helped me the most.

I'm very sorry that progress is slow with your mother. With my newfound education on NPD I feel like I have so much control. Now that I know for a fact that I'm not the sick one, I feel stronger than ever! Whenever she starts her crap I am able to deal with her in a positive, productive manner and not feel the least bit guilty about it. In fact, she is the one calling me for attention most of the time. :)

I wish all of you the best with your mothers. Keep your chin up and remember that life is too short to live it being miserable!!

Neko

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2003, 10:06:09 AM »
Yeah, projection is reeeal fun... not :wink:

My mother was never diagnosed with NPD, just with several of the symptoms, as often happens with narcissists who aren't in treatment for a long time, apparently. This site goes into that quite well: NPD: DSM IV Criteria (discusses more than just the criteria).

I've looked at just about every website there is on Narcissism and how to deal with narcissists, the site you suggest is indeed quite good.

I'm not aiming for progress with my mother, because I know none will ever be made, frankly. I don't want control either - just my own life, with peace and happiness, and as little of my parents' nonsense in it as possible. The best I can do is to keep my mother at bay and lay down boundaries - she'll never change, only get better at what she is: a narcissist. Keeping in touch with her seems to only serve the purpose of her not becoming a complete nutcase! Like your mom, she sure needs that attention!

Anika

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2003, 10:57:35 AM »
LOL!

The need for applause is never ending with with my mother!

I am not trying to control her. The control that I spoke of is over the situation. I no longer feel like I'm spinning inside of a tornato. My boundries are in place and I know what to do when she crosses one, which she almost always tries to do.  :lol:

My mother will never change either, but I will. I will continue to grow and prosper and live my OWN life the way I see fit. There is nothing she can do about that and that's where my power comes from: the realization that this is MY life and I'm doing just fine!
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

Tinkergirl

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Confronting the NPD Mother
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2003, 11:03:03 AM »
Hi All,

Brand new to the board, but not to the subject.  I was wondering if any of you had experiences with trying to cut off all contact with your N mothers.  As a daughter of an N mother who continues to only contaminate and aggrivate my life (I have my own daughter now) I feel the only way to stop the insanity is to stop all communication with her.  I've read other posts where you have decided to 'lay down boundaries' but still seem very angry, betrayed, and upset.  I don't want to minimize her craziness, I want it to end.  Since she refuses to acknowledge she has ever treated me poorly or admit she needs help, I feel I have no other choice.  Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated!

Anika

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Disassociation
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2003, 11:20:30 AM »
Sure, it's called disassociating yourself. Remember, YOU have all the power in the situation because you KNOW what is going on with her. She is at a disadvantage because she can only think narrowly and selfishly. To her everything is about her, but you know better. You can think and see things for what they really are. That almost makes her the child and you the adult!

You don't have to deal with her: that's the beauty of it! Take back your life and don't feel guilty about doing it! If you don't want to talk to her, DON'T! If you don't want to see her, DON'T! If she asks why you can give her a brief explanation if you want to, but just know that she won't understand it. Who cares? It's YOUR life!! Get out there and live it!!!
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

P

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Getting ready to face the lion.
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2003, 09:04:52 PM »
I met a woman last summer who hasn't had any contact with her mother for almost 30 years.  Her mother was a very extreme narcissist (among other things - sadistic somehow) and she chose to walk away and NEVER look back.  Her reason was that she believed her mother would never get better and she didn't want to spend her life being mistreated and undermined.  I envied her the strenght and resolve to do that.  

Whenever I entertain the possibility, I feel quite overwhelmed with guilt and start telling myself things like, "it's really not that bad" and "you only have to see her a couple of weeks out of the year", and "she's old, etc, etc..  About 85% of the time I don't like my mother and the other 15% of the time I feel sorry for her tormented life (or is it just tormenting)?  I do know that when I'm around her I'm always preparing for the 'strike' and it always comes.  I'm 51 years old and I can't believe I'm still struggling with this mess.

Pat

Anika

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2003, 09:20:34 AM »
P,

I'm 28 years old and I fear that I too shall struggle for the rest of my life. I am right in the middle of a move - I bought my first house and need to be out of my appt by the 31st. I also have to pick up my new refrigerator and get my stuff out of the front two rooms of the new house because the previous owner STILL has to get the carpets cleaned and that is also happening on Thursday- and I am scheduled to sing at a wedding this weekend. I just heard the song for the first time last night. Mom called this morning to tell me that she wants me to make time to come over to her house and sing the song for her BEFORE the wedding! :roll: Yeah right, like I have time for that!!

I told her that I don't know the song well enough yet and I don't have time for a visit right now. She insisted. Can you believe that? I have so much to do right now and not enough time to do any of it yet she still expects me to come over to her house and entertain her????? :x

Needless to say, I stuck to my guns and ended the conversation with her but not before she had a chance to pout a bit. She'll call me several more times to try and wear me down but it won't work. Then I'll have to hear about the incident for the next 5 years or so or until she gets tired of trying to berate me with it.

Oh well, it's her problem, not mine. She can hear the song at the wedding just like everyone else. I simply don't have time to play games with her!
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

Anonymous

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2003, 03:13:45 PM »
Dear Anika,  

You have probably made a very good decision.  My first thought about her wanting you to sing for her before the ceremony was 'how would she try to undermine your performance'?  If I translate that to what I think my mother would do, assuming they always react from their narcissim, would be to make sure that you felt bad enough about yourself so as not to surpass their own feeling about themeselves.  I've learned one thing for certain and that is that the narcissist needs to keep their 'victims' vulnerable and available for them to 'feed off of'.  By that I mean that their needs are only met by others seeing them as srtonger, more capable or admirable and the only way to ensure that that happens is to keep you feeling badly about yourself or your circumstances.

So, sing well and enjoy yourself.

Pat

Anika

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getting ready to face the lion
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2003, 10:44:00 AM »
I don't think that she wanted to berate me or undermine my performance in any way. One of the diagnosis characteristics of NPD is that they think they deserve special treatment. That's what she was wanting: a private performance BEFORE anyone else got to hear me. She called me two more times yesterday and I politely told her that I did not have time to talk to her. That's the end of it (period).

She wants so badly to be in my life and to have a say in my life and she just doesn't. Like I said, after I realized what was going on I changed my entire mind set. I will no longer walk on egg shells with her. I do not fear her wrath. I will NOT give in to her manipulation or break under her projection. I see her now for what she truely is: a very intelligent, charismatic, SICK person.

I have learned how to recognize the sickness and what to do when it rears its ugly head. One should never give in to a whinning child because it teaches the child that whinning will get him/her his/her way. The same holds true for a N!
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"