is he an N?

[debbyo]

I've just broken off with a man I'd been seeing for 3 months -in fact I moved state with my children to live with him but it all went terribly wrong so moved back home. He has been calling me and emailing me and has wanted to get back together. The other night when he asked me to go back to him I said that i was afraid his idea of love was a very idealised type. He wanted romance and excitement and reasurrance all the time but if I had a problem he didn't really want to listen. He became very angry and said if I don't like him the way he is that there are 3 women at work who are after him so he'll be fine. Another thing he said was if we were to get back together, if I ever had problems he'd prefer I "made an appointment" with him because he's not often in the mood to hear people's problems. He also said that if were are having a discussion about anything I should not try to win because it makes him feel completely worthless. In fact if I find I disagree with him, I could either keep it to myself or kiss him and tell him he is wonderful and that I love him more than anyone in the world. I said what if you are yelling at me? He said "I never yell" (he does often) - but no matter what, I should try to make him feel better. I asked would he do the same thing for me and he started screaming and said he is young and has a lot of opportunities, I'm old and don't have much chance of getting anyone. I started getting angry and told him it was a horrible thing to say - and he said you are a complete narcissist. So I looked it up and it all looked very familiar - especially the no empathy. Once when I was crying because I missed my friends, he walked away saying "I've done everything I can to look after you and all you can do is make me feel completely worthless". I am very confused. Can anyone tell me, is he just self-centred or is he in fact a narcissist?

[debbyo]

He also used to withdraw for weeks. He told me it was because he was depressed so I tried not to put pressure on him. The he would snap back and everything would be fun again. It wasn't just disagreeing with him that would infuriate him (even on the most trivial matters), even in conversations about what's going on in the world, he always thought it was a personal dig. Like if I felt sorry for refugees, I was trying to make out he was cold. If it something about feminism, I was putting him down as a man. If it was about a movie I didn't like, i was being snobbish and critical, if I liked someone, then I was just unfavourably comparing them with him. there didn't seem to be a topic of conversation that I could risk except telling him how wonderful he is. Once I told him I was upset and needed to talk to him, he said you are so demanding, can we do it another time, then started talking about the great decisions he made at work that day. Because i didn't look so keen, he said I was so self-centred and showed no interest in him. Maybe was just depressed. I don't know. When we went out he always wanted my to get really dressed-up so he could show me off. I thought that was sweet at the time, now i wonder. He still calls, but I'm strating to think there is something wrong with him. I don't want to abandon someone who is depressed but I feel that there is nothing I can do for him except annihilate any need i have of my own.

[Karin]

Hi Debbyo,
Welcome!
It sounds very much to me that he is a narcissist. All N's are self-centered and from what you write, this man doesn't appear to give a thought to anybody except his 'wonderful' self.
Good for you for getting out of there and away from him, you deserve better.
This site has a wealth of information, so read on and hopefully you'll understand more about these (N) people and how to deal with them.
Take care,
Karin.

[Anonymous]

He has been calling me and emailing me and
he wanted to get back together.

He wanted romance and excitement and reasurrance all the time but if I had a problem he didn't really want to listen.

He became very angry and said if I don't like him the way he is that
there are 3 women at work who are after him so he'll be fine.

if we were to get back together, if I ever had problems
he'd prefer I "made an appointment" with him because he's not often in the mood to hear people's problems.

He also said that if were are having a discussion about anything
I should not try to win because it makes him feel completely worthless.

In fact if I find I disagree with him, I could either keep it to myself or kiss him and tell him he is wonderful and that I love him more than anyone in the world.

I said what if you are yelling at me? He said "I never yell" (he does often) - but no matter what,
I should try to make him feel better.

I asked would he do the same thing for me and he started screaming and said he is young and has a lot of opportunities,
I'm old and don't have much chance of getting anyone.

I started getting angry and told him it was a horrible thing to say -
and he said you are a complete narcissist.

Once when I was crying because I missed my friends, he walked away saying "I've done everything I can to look after you and all you can do is make me feel completely worthless".

I am very confused. Can anyone tell me, is he just self-centred or is he in fact a narcissist?

Sounds like he's very clear on what he wants in a relationship. What do you want in a relationship. Obviously you've already decided, not his crap.

But I don't know what he is, I think Narcissist or NPD more likely would just be for starters. Plenty of other hangups and disorders and the odd syndrome thrown in too I imagine. What an insecure f%$@*ed up little jerk. 3 other woman at work, huh, sounds like a delusion he's got. Let him at them for 3 months and they'll be running for the hills.

Decent guys who respect women as equals and value their friendship and relationship don't say stuff like that. And the comment about you being old, oh that was so cruel. Are you okay?

It sounds like he's still making your life hell? I would put call block on my phone and get him out of my head and my life. In my humble opinion he's degraded and abused you. Because of this, I believe he's lost the right even to your friendship after speaking like that to you. And yes, he's self-centred to the marrow. You can't rescue him. Life's too short.

To all of his "I wants", and "I needs", and "could you please make an appointment to talk to me if you're upset", and his, "If you disagree with me, don't tell me, just tell me how wonderful I am," bullshit, I'd like to say to him, "Has anyone ever told you that if you keep talking like that you'll go blind."


Guest.

[Portia]

Hi debbyo

You said it:

there is nothing I can do for him except annihilate any need i have of my own.

And therefore lose yourself completely. Nobody is worth that, no-one – ! And presumably this subjects your kids to his wonderful, all-consuming presence too? How are they? What do they think of him? Gosh, leave it alone debbyo! Want to talk more?

Oh Guest you’ve put an image of the N into my mind that I really didn’t want!   P

[Lizbeth]

Hi Debbyo and welcome.

It's easier to say this from outside of a relationship, but please, please, practice no contact with this man and go on with your life.  Whether he is an N or not, he is a seriously screwed up individual who will make any woman's life a living hell.  His insecurities will destroy you in his attempt to constantly pump himself up.

You have children, let me tell you. prolonged contact with this type of person is going to affect them deeply, so be glad you are out and stay out.  The only thing that will help this man is prolonged therapy, and that is probably not going to happen.  It would entail too much work and too much self-realization on his part.  YOU CAN'T HELP HIM.

This man is not fit for ANYONE to live with, much less a woman with children in tow.  Feel sorry for him, but keep him out of your life.  The next woman he gets involved with is going to go through what you did or even worse.  Nothing you or anyone else can do will help or change him.  Only he can do that.

Good luck and stay strong.  You sound like a nice person who deserves so much more, and so do your children.

Lizbeth

[lynn]

Hi Debbyo,

Welcome.  Lots of useful information at this board.  It can help you sort through your feelings and get a reality check.  

This guy does not sound like a man you would want to build a family with. Good for you for leaving.  You can't help him... he already thinks he is perfect.  It sound as though you have a lot to give to a relationship... give it to someone who appreciates YOU.

stay strong,

lynn

[Anonymous]

Debbyo,

Sometimes people stay in bad relationships because they are afraid they will not find anyone else.  Afraid of lonliness.  I have no idea if that is of any influence to you, but I still wanted to mention, do not buy into the  ideas about age & finding a partner, that he has told you.  You, an older (than he) emotionally stable woman, will fair so much better than this "younger" emotionally barren, ill soul.

Move on completely from this life energy & spirit sucking entity.  You will only find yourself in complete & utter hell, if you deal with him in any way.

Though your concern about abandonning someone in need is appreciated, his healing path is not in your hands, but lies elsewhere.   He is too ill.  There is nothing you can do.   He is only able to seek out victims, prey upon them, abuse & use them.   Straight out of his own mouth (as your rendition of his words show) he is telling you that you will be chosen for that role if you have anything to do with him.    

In essence, should you stay, you will know exactly what you've signed up for.   In that case, how could you argue against your treatment & push for something healthier?  

Believe me when I tell you that there is a part of him that would tell you himself, to run, run, run from him, and don't look back, if he could.  In fact, many N's (which he seems to be at the least) do forewarn in this way.   The recipients usually make the understandable error of taking those comments in gest.   After all, why would we think someone is seriously sickly warning us of their intent to wreak havoc on our hearts, souls, lives...

Run for your life & for you sanity.   Anyone who has been involved with an N for an extended period will tell you that this is not an exaggeration by any means.   Perhaps even an understatement.  Thank your lucky stars your brush with N has been relatively unentangled, and short lived (though 3 mnths. of N madness may have feel like a decade) and erase this man from your world, completely.

The only thing to hold onto out of all of this, are flags to watch out for when meeting new men in the future.

Take good care...





[/b]

[debbyo]

Thanks everybody - I really appreciate this great feedback. He emailed me and I told him that I wasn't willing to surrender all my needs to make him feel good. And a few other things - haven't heard a word back. Have blocked him on email. And he hasn't tried to call. I think he realises that I'm not willing to centre my world around him. And I laugh when I know what his reaction will be - that I'm very selfish, ungiving and unloving. Wow I've never come across anything like it. I kept thinking he will eventually be hit with a big realisation about what he is doing and be terribly sorry - wow that day might be the second coming it seems (ha ha). Thanks again everyone for taking the time out to talk to a stranger. And for the kind person who asked - yes, I'm fine - the age remark was cruel but really silly too (even the shock of hearing someone trying to be hurtful doesn't blind you to what a silly immature remark it is). Thanks again. I will read some more on this

[Anonymous]

It is very encouraging to hear that you are staying away from this man. My concern is for your children.  Maybe you should avoid romantic relationships until you are able to make choices that don't put your children in danger. Moving to another state to live with a man after knowing him for so short a time is scary. Taking your children is even more scary.

[write]

I told him that I wasn't willing to surrender all my needs to make him feel good

good for you, because it sounds like you did exactly that when you got involved with him.

Getting to know someone slowly and calling a halt at the first signs of abuse is more healthy.

For many of us who were 'educated' by dysfunctional parents we have learned a skewed definition of what is healthy or 'normal' in relationships, and need to work on ourselves to straighten this out before we can choose happy mutually beneficial relationships.

For issues of codependency this is informative http://www.recovery-man.com/coda/codependency.htm

Good luck, and keep taking care of yourself.

[MCKINND]

I HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH A "N" FOR 14 YRS AND I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS, I WAS ALWAYS THINKING THINGS WOULD EVENTUALLY GET BETTER!!! THEY GOT WORSE WITH AGE.
HE HATED HIS OWN CHILD AND MINE BY A PREVIOUS MARRIAGE, NOW MY CHILD IS IN PRISION AND WILL PROBABLY BE THERE MOST HIS LIFE AND I AM WONDERING WHAT PART THE "N'" COULD OF PLAYED IN THE PERSON HE HAS BECOME.  I NEVER LOVED SO DEEP, BUT HE ONLY LOVED HIMSELF, THE EMOTIONAL STRESS WAS UNREAL, I WAS CRYING MOST OF THE TIME.  THEN I STARTED ANALYZING EVERYTHING, MY LIFE, MY CAREER, MY RELATIONSHIPS, AND I HAD NOTICED HE HAD MADE IT TO WHERE NO ONE WOULD COME SEE ME, THEY WERE AFRAID OF HIS WICKED MEAN WORDS.  I TOLD HIM THAT IF HE DIDN'T CHANGE HE WOULD EVENTUALLY KILL EVERYTHING I HAD FOR HIM.  I PRAYED VERY HARD THEN I FOUND OUT THE DEFINITION OF THE "N", I HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF IT. I DONE RESEARCH ON IT. THEN ABOUT A MONTH AGO, I PACKED UP MY THINGS, I MOVED OUT, I FEEL LIKE 5000 LBS HAVE BEEN LIFTED OFF MY SHOULDERS, I AM HAPPY AND NO MORE WALKING ON EGG SHELLS TRYING TO PLEASE THE ONE WHO CAN NOT BE PLEASED.
HE CALLS AND BEGS BUT I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AND I KNOW THE TREATMENT WOULD RESUME ONCE HE HAD ME BACK.  I NOW DON'T HAVE ANY FEELINGS FOR HIM AND HE DON'T UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE HE KNEW HOW MUCH I LOVED HIM.  
I'M SO GLAD THAT I LEARNED THIS WAS A NO WIN SITUATION AND I AM GLAD  I AM NOW FREE.

[Anonymous]

Hi McKinnd, and a big warm welcome

HE HATED HIS OWN CHILD AND MINE BY A PREVIOUS MARRIAGE, NOW MY CHILD IS IN PRISION AND WILL PROBABLY BE THERE MOST HIS LIFE AND I AM WONDERING WHAT PART THE "N'" COULD OF PLAYED IN THE PERSON HE HAS BECOME.  

Gosh, I'm stunned and I feel like all I can say to that is, "How awful for you and for your son." Children don't thrive in hate, and your mother's heart knows that now. You probably knew it then too, but Narcissist's can be so charming and seductive and unfortunately can have us living on 'false hopes' for decades. And when we wake up we've suffered so much loss, and so often, so have those close to us as well. It's so sad, and your situation with your child is tragic.

I NEVER LOVED SO DEEP, BUT HE ONLY LOVED HIMSELF, THE EMOTIONAL STRESS WAS UNREAL, I WAS CRYING MOST OF THE TIME.  THEN I STARTED ANALYZING EVERYTHING, MY LIFE, MY CAREER, MY RELATIONSHIPS, AND I HAD NOTICED HE HAD MADE IT TO WHERE NO ONE WOULD COME SEE ME, THEY WERE AFRAID OF HIS WICKED MEAN WORDS.  

Reducing your family and support network to just him, how convenient.

I TOLD HIM THAT IF HE DIDN'T CHANGE HE WOULD EVENTUALLY KILL EVERYTHING I HAD FOR HIM.  I PRAYED VERY HARD THEN I FOUND OUT THE DEFINITION OF THE "N", I HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF IT. I DONE RESEARCH ON IT.

I'm glad you found out about Narcissisum. All of the sudden a whole lot of insane stuff sudenly makes sense, doesn't it. And you start to realise it isn't your imagination. It's not that there's something wrong with you, or only you. The other person may have worse problems.

THEN ABOUT A MONTH AGO, I PACKED UP MY THINGS, I MOVED OUT, I FEEL LIKE 5000 LBS HAVE BEEN LIFTED OFF MY SHOULDERS, I AM HAPPY AND NO MORE WALKING ON EGG SHELLS TRYING TO PLEASE THE ONE WHO CAN NOT BE PLEASED.
HE CALLS AND BEGS BUT I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AND I KNOW THE TREATMENT WOULD RESUME ONCE HE HAD ME BACK.  I NOW DON'T HAVE ANY FEELINGS FOR HIM AND HE DON'T UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE HE KNEW HOW MUCH I LOVED HIM.  
I'M SO GLAD THAT I LEARNED THIS WAS A NO WIN SITUATION AND I AM GLAD  I AM NOW FREE

.
Isn't that great.    that you feel free. At first is seems sad to close the door on 14 years of hopes, but when you realise they were false hopes, I think the sadness changes to relief. I'm glad you're free too. I hope you spend some time here talking and sharing. And getting your strength back.    14 years is a long time to have the life, and individuality, and laughter, and hopes sucked out of you.


I'm so glad you posted McKinnd, and I hope you post some more.

CG