Confession of Someone Infected

[Tokyojim]

I have an N “friend” of 40 years, since high school.

I have wondered why I continued to maintain the friendship.  It was fine from a distance – an occasional phone call and a brief meeting when I was in town.  However, whenever the contact became more frequent, it soon becomes tedious, and I become frustrated or very angry.  I cannot rely on him, I am embarrassed to introduce him to my real friends, and he has enraged me a number of times.  I had pretty good parents, have no inclination toward codependency, was married a very stable woman, etc.  So why did I maintain this “friendship?”

I reflected on this when it became unbearable and finally realized the terrible reasons.  First, his energy and fantasies can be interesting in very small doses.  However, much more than that, the disease was infectious!  He had put the poison in my mind that I was really better than everyone else.  How easy life becomes with that!  Whenever there was some normal conflict and stress, I could retreat to my kingdom where I am superior to my surroundings, above it all.  I have had a farily normal life – a marriage to a good woman, job success, and a couple of stable kids who are now grown.  A couple of years ago, I went through a divorce, moved to a new town, and started a new job.  I was alone and shaky, and the N went for the jugular.  I got re-infected with the idea that I was superior to everyone and above it all, so the people around me were not worth any effort. How easy!  I felt something was wrong.  It was probably like a drug.  There is a temporary good feeling, but one knows that one’s soul and humanity are being destroyed. I cut off the N supply two months ago.  Naturally, he stopped contacting me.  The result is amazing!  I am enjoying people in the community, seeing their humanity, and they are contacting me.

I am writing this because I may have a different point of view.  Most people here seem to have been intimately involved as a spouse or a child of an N.  I became an infected person who absorbed the disease to some degree.  So far, my healthy part won out, but the N thinking had to be fought before it destroyed me.  Under its brief spell, I was incapable of love and friendship, and was becoming isolated.  Of course, I still worry because some remains.

[lynn]

Under its brief spell, I was incapable of love and friendship, and was becoming isolated.

Hi tokyojim, interesting observation.  N's can be very persuasive, successful, visionary.  While they may be destructive and fail miserably in personal relationships, they can be effective leaders.  Whether we like them or not, some Ns do a magnificent job at getting things started, beginning companies, creating momentum, introducing new ideas.

It's hard to be around an N on a daily basis and NOT be influenced by them.  They fill up the space.  They suck in all the oxygen.  

I ask myself a similar question, why did I stay around for so long?  And I guess part of the answer is that I have a respect for that entrepenurial, visionary part of some N's personality.  There is an energy being around someone so dynamic.  

And at the same time, it took a tremendous personal sacrifice. Immense sacrifice. As I reflect back, I am shocked that I could not see the true effect of the relationship as it was happening. Like you, I came to see myself as isolated.  I question my abliity to love.  (And why not!! The word "love" in my N Relationship was not really Love at all.  Of course, I became confused!)

Now I feel open to the universe.  Open to possibility.  Optimistic that the world is abundant and that one way or another, things will work out and I will be okay.  

It's an interesting question.

lynn

[futurehope]

It's hard to be around an N on a daily basis and NOT be influenced by them. They fill up the space. They suck in all the oxygen.

Hello Lynn, you are soo right. I am glad to have found this post this AM. Thank you for that.

They are like black holes. I was doing fairly well up until about last week. I just realized why. I have been away from him/NH during the day since my baby has been born working from home. (we work togather/self employeed - oh and thats a real fun trip too 24/7 with a textbook N!! Mygod, its incredible that I can even function!)

Well Last week due to the holidays, He's been around more and I regressed into depression again. Being around him literally SUCKS the strength/hope right out of me. Then I proceed to beat myself up for not being stronger.

I feel a bit better today just reading this. Thank you for posting it Tokyo Jim.

Here's another example of how toxic they can be.

My neighbors just separated. The wife moved out with the kids and they were tying to work things out. (married 15 years since high school separated for maybe a week). So the remaining nieghbor come over to talk to my NH about whats going on and ask for adivce. (YIKES!!!) They were in the garage for about 3 hours, My NH was eating up their conflict. Spitting out his venom. He helped by telling him how horrible his wife was for leaving, uprooting the kids etc. Poisoning his mind with complete lies about where the wife was during the day, she must be cheating....Encouraged him to get a divorce pronto and apparently gave him some lawyer contacts. Forgot to add this earlier: He also encouraged the husband to get out that he was better than this didnt deserve it or have to put up with it. Told him to find a date, go to a club/bar and forget about her. She's not worthy ect ect ect.

A few days later I got a horrible phone call from the wife. She recieved divorce papers, and was crying wondering why my NH said what he did to her husband, how could he be so cruel- what did she ever do to him? Really unbelieveable. I told her to call him at work and speak with him directly I was not going to give him ANY excuses . I told her how sorry I was and really cant explain his behaviour. I made an effort to tell her and her husband to talk to each other, get counseling, and talk with real friends that have their best interests at heart.

Also he apparently gave this neighbor my younger sister's phone number , without her consent, to get a date. Didnt matter that she was half his age or had a boyfriend. Didnt matter that these people had a family with kids and was married 15 years. The guy did indded call her!! and she called me asking why we gave him her number....how pathetic it is really. Nothing is sacred to them.


Ns ARE like infectious diseases of the mind/soul.

Now I feel open to the universe. Open to possibility. Optimistic that the world is abundant and that one way or another, things will work out and I will be okay.

 i cant wait to get there!!!

[lynn]

He's been around more and I regressed into depression again. Being around him literally SUCKS the strength/hope right out of me. Then I proceed to beat myself up for not being stronger.

Hi futurehope,

When I finally reached the point that I could recognize the "black hole" for what it was, I was at a turning point.  For so long, he did suck the strength/hope out of me and I couldn't recognize it.  I knew I felt bad, but I couldn't tell where the bad feelings were originating.  

In another thread, someone mentioned playing the opposite "role" to her N.  I can understand that.  I suppose, when I got married, I, too, was fearful of intimacy.  So my fear-of-intimacy-story intertwined with his the-N-greatest-story.  It's just that over time it didn't get better.  Instead of two people supporting and caring and growing.  Our opposite roles became more defined and rigid.

I guess what I am saying, is that it is important to me to recognize and understand my role in this marriage mess.  Everyone has positive and negative aspects to their personality.  At the beginning, there were aspects of my N's personality that were very attractive.  But ying and yang in everything:  Those same things became the black hole that exists now.  I want to find a way to take responsibility for my part, so that I won't make the same mistakes again.

I have loved the recent threads on trust and inimacy as these are key issues for me.  And I want to understand my self more.

lynn

[Tokyojim]

Futurehope,

Yes, the N will spot a point of weakness and go for it.  That is a chance to feel important.  Your neighbor was most likely in emotional pain and unsure of the relationship and what to do.  That was the N's big chance!

The ability of the N to appear like a caring friend is uncanny.  They cannot engage in prolonged relationships, or they will be discovered.  The N I have known for 40 years is amazing sometimes.  I have seen him speak with people and hone in on their troubles and act like a caring friend, but behind their back he only shows disdain and scorn.  "They are stupid low-lifes."  Or something like that, he would say.

On most of these posts, people are discussing what the N has done to them.  I would like to know more about WHY people are attracted to them.  They do have an energy and optimism, and if their grandiosity is not extreme, it is believeable and infectious.  But it is like a poisonous drug.....

[surf14]

I can relate to your story Tokyojim about  the N friend who pulls you into their n world and stokes the ego to the point where the Nness rubs off.

 I had a male friend who I  felt about the closest to as anyone in my life aside from  my mate.   He was always so positive of me and made me feel so good about myself.   I supervise students who rotate thru  my workplace  (healthcare) and I got a student  interestingly enough from the small town next door to where I grew up in Wisconsin.   (now live in Hawaii)  She was 13 years younger than him and seemed to seek him out as a partner.

 Long story made short;  they had a workplace romance that  intefered with my professional  relationship with her.  But the worst of it was that from this point on he really changed.  He was no longer supportive but rather competative with me.   I guess he compared his student girlfriend to me and wanted her to compete with me.  He began sabatoging me and became hardened towards me.  What had previouly been a supportive  and loving friendship now turned into a relationship where he no longer treated me with repsect.  I  brought this to his attention on several occasions but he wasn't ready to look at the dynamics.  It went on and eventually we were able to construct at least a distant but civil connection.

The failure of this relationship was VERY painful to me and of course I felt betrayed by him  (he had promised before this student arrived to not get involved with her)  but this is the first time I really began to look into Narcissistic PD.   About the time all this happened he became very upwardly mobile in this healthcare facilty.  I agree with the previouos writer that these people can really be bright, energetic and driven because that's how he became.  But he lost his heart and began to have other relational probelms with peers.  He has since moved on to another facility and I am relieved as he had been trying to bring his  girlfriend (now wife) into  my department as an emplyee.  That would have created some real problems for  me considering his overprotectivenss of his childbride.

During his period of change I remembered that five years previously we had been doing an exercise which looked at self-image.  At the time he had described himself as  a lazy, no-good bum and a total sloth-worm.  I had been aghast because this was nothing like how he appeared.  Now  I understand that this is the flip side of his nacisssitc character and is how he really feels about himself inside.  

Tokyojim:  I'm glad you did some reflecting  as to what  were the secondary gains you were getting out of this relationship you were in.  And I think it is easy to be be seduced into sliding back in to that reality when it appears to  offer  a reflection back that seemingly has no flaws in it.  Your awarenss tho is the key.  Have a good one.       Surf

[futurehope]

I guess what I am saying, is that it is important to me to recognize and understand my role in this marriage mess. Everyone has positive and negative aspects to their personality. At the beginning, there were aspects of my N's personality that were very attractive. But ying and yang in everything: Those same things became the black hole that exists now. I want to find a way to take responsibility for my part, so that I won't make the same mistakes again.

I know I have responsibility here too but sometimes I just feel like that paula cole song, Throwing Stones.

 "My inner vision, dulled and darkened
I keep myself away to you
I f$%# my sorrow humblely
And throw my crown upon the ground

It's you I hope for
And us I pray for
And me that I believed was wrong
But now my anger is my best friend
Be careful I may bite your head off"

but I really do hear what your saying lynn, I think In my case I may have started w/ a slight dependent or avoident disorder. (Which got worse as time went on.) This is what I intend to discover in therapy.  Also I think I was so wrapped up in my own emotional pain at the time that his way of "akuna matata" was so attractive. and boy!, The persuit and attention he gave-WOW!!!, made my head spin. Plus he was cute and we had alot in common from our childhood pains. "us against the world" I thought.

“They do have an energy and optimism, and if their grandiosity is not extreme, it is believeable and infectious.”

TokyoJim, I have a friend who I talk to about this at work. (He has a NFather.) Although he can’t stand to be around my NH for long, He has confessed that the confidence that he gives off is very addicting and very attractive to him too. Interestingly, He is a shy more reserved person. There is also his humor, which at times is hurtful, but in small doses can be really funny. Also him saying things we, normal folk, would never have the nerve/gall to say. They can be very vibrant people. Good luck in finding some of those answers.

the N friend who pulls you into their n world and stokes the ego to the point where the Nness rubs off.

Nice surf, that’s great way of putting it. I have defiantly felt this at times and its affected some of my relationships /decisions. Now I remove myself from it, it is so morally caustic. I, like Tokyo Jim, sometimes wonder if part of that will be with me forever.

[Tokyojim]

Yes, I have the fear that one part of the N thinking is staying with me.  That is, the thinking that almost all other people are boring and have dull, repetitive lifes that fit the poet's, "Most men live lives of quiet desperation."

Except for a few weeks (in the past 40 years) in which the N spent tremendous sums of money and had an unusual time, his life has been a "dull" one itself, living in a multi-family with mommy with no job, few friends, and virtually no travel.  But somehow he has convinced me that there is that "grand" life out there if one only has the nerve to go for it.  He loves to quote Roosevelt's, "There is nothing to fear but fear itself," as the motivator for pursuing the glamorous life that he will soon join AS SOON AS......

I still have trouble shaking this, but the one thing that make him seem ugly is when I am with young children (he hates children).  As part of my work, I sometimes interact with them and realize that THIS is the stuff that life is made out of.  He would never be in my presence when I was with my children and avoided me when I was involved with my family life.  He was blunt: "We had nothing in common."  (My children are grown now.)

I cut off his NS about two months ago, and he stopped contacting me.  This forum and my readings have strengthened my resolve to cut contact forever.  However, after 40 years! this is difficult.