New to the realization of Narcissism

[motheroffour]

Hey jillebean,

How are you?  Sounds like you have been thru a lot and you are a fighter.  I feel your strength. 

I empathize with your situation.  Our husband's sound similar in that they are stuck between wife and family.  And I have wondered and think that many times he does it just to keep the peace.  Other times, I am not sure he knows what to do.  There are seemingly real losses for him on both sides.  I must admit I am navigating all the family dynamics with not much experience.  Trying balance the needs of my children, with my needs, with patiently (well, maybe not so patiently) waiting for my husband to realize the extent of his families dysfunction.  I think he does realize it.  But it needs some time to sink in.  He is still processing all of the information we are just now receiving on the subject.   I am relatively new to understanding N (Not new to liviing with it), and I am trying now to learn as much as I can about its effects.  My husband is coming to his own realizations but in his own time (much slower than I would like).  Sometimes I get so frustrated as what I think is his inability to be loyal to me.  But I am learning how the control of his family has really disabled his emotional capacities.  I have to remind myself to be patient as he tries to work it all out. 

Is your husband aware of the dynamics in your family?  Does he see a need to create distance with them?  Does he partner with you in coming up with solutions for your children's need to see Grandma?  Does he struggle with the effects of being raised in this kind of family and does he see the extent??? Does he suppress feelings and try to solve problems by denying they exist?

In the mean time, much love from another who has had too much "neat and tidy"!

--mof4

[jillebean]

Wow!  You have hit the head on the nail!  Sounds just like my husband.  As far as children go,  I feel like my husband should deal with what he states as problematic between him and his mom before we have the children go to her house again.  not because I'm wanting control over how hubby handles his stuff with mom, but because i don't  want the children to serve as detractors so that H can say he didn't get the chance to talk to mom about stuff because there was no privacy.

 And the longer my husband denies the dysfunction, the more i feel like he has me and his mom on the same level in terms of openness and honesty goes.  I' currently looking at boundaries and where mine are weak or non-existent, but it's sooooo hard to focus on that stuff when my husband keeps checking to see if I'm ok.  i love him dearly and I don't think he does these things to hurt me, but his reactions when I try to talk ona matter-of-fact basis really put me off. 

Also, I.m a recovering alcoholic of 2 yrs. 1 month so my emotions to overwhelm me and others sometimes.  Perhaps I should try a vacation of sorts? I dunno. 

Thanks so much for your empathy!!!!  You're awsome : ))

[Hopalong]

Hi Jille, and welcome again,

Congratulations on your sobriety. That's huge. You have a new life!
It must feel a little raw, as though you're walking in strength...now everybody catch up!

I think your hubby needs his own individual counseling. His waking up to the truth of his family is priority, I agree with you...but it has to become HIS priority. I think his own counseling could illuminate that for him, and help him to grasp it as his own personal goal. Maybe he's going at a pace that frustrates you, but then, you've got a lot of healthy living to catch up on and you want to get on with it!

Understandable. 

Meanwhile, if the in-laws are harming your children, mother tiger rules, everybody else ready or not. If it's just bearable but irritating, I think a retreat from it, something that takes your mind back to you and your own inner work, is a great idea.

Dunno if this makes much sense, I'm short on caffeine.

hopefully,
Hopalong

[Certain Hope]

And the longer my husband denies the dysfunction, the more i feel like he has me and his mom on the same level in terms of openness and honesty goes. 
I' currently looking at boundaries and where mine are weak or non-existent, but it's sooooo hard to focus on that stuff when my husband keeps checking to see if I'm ok.  i love him dearly and I don't think he does these things to hurt me, but his reactions when I try to talk ona matter-of-fact basis really put me off. 

Hi Jillebean,

I've felt this way... like my husband may put me and his mom on the same level in terms of emotional openness and honesty.
This is something I've been working through here at home... trying to come to terms with my own part in it... because I'd tried to keep communication open with my m-i-l, while he basically had chosen to ignore her, for the most part.
Now the people involved in my particular situation aren't NPD, but alot of the same factors are involved... I guess because of past emotional turmoils.
And I'm two years out of drinking, too... still learning to feel and deal with emotions, rather than stuff or numb them.

Anyhow, I'm just coming to see that I was setting up a no-win situation for my husband when (in my mind) I'd hinge our entire relationship on his approach to his mother. I do not mean to say that's what you're doing... and I do understand that it's much different when an in-law is NPD and there are children involved...
but I've found that he is much more receptive to my input re: my feelings (including about his mother) when I make it clear to him that I don't expect him to "fix" anything... just need him to hear and hug. From what I can tell, he's shut off alot of his own feelings about his mother because they're too overwhelming to hold. I'm beginning to think that's quite wise of him to practice this sort of detachment.
Re: my dealing with her, he just wants me to do whatever will be "okay" for me, and... (here's the unspoken part, I think)... leave him out of it.

Since he and I don't have any children together and live 200 miles away from her, this is a much simpler matter.
But trying to put myself into your shoes, I wondered... does your husband have a strong interest in ensuring that your children spent time with his parents?
Is this something which he actively promotes or does he just generally choose the path of least resistance?
See, I'm trying to put myself into the position of not resisting so much as standing on my own ground, if that makes sense... and allowing him to stand on his.
That ground is becoming more common and shared as I learn to distinguish my emotions about my m-i-l's behavior from my emotions about my husband and his emotions about (whatever).
So when I tell him I feel such and such about something his mom did, I don't need him to feel the same way... only to value my feelings by acknowledging them. As we practice this together, the door opens for him to tell me how he feels about some of this... and to share with me how he deals with it. Eek.. I'm not doing very well expressing this, but the main thing I'm finding is that he needs to know I don't expect him to make everything okay for me. With that pressure off, we each have room to grow.

Hugs to you.

With love,
Hope

 

[jillebean]

CB -
My kids are 5, 12 & 14.  T!e older 2 get to choose (for most part except for special celebrations) whether or not they go to g-ma's.  For the past 9 mo. or so I haven't gone at all. Older two usually don't go. 

Do they see the dysfunction? I dunno??? Does my H? I dunno? He says that his mom has some "character flaws" but that he's certain she doesn't know that her actions hurt others.  I say, it's not about admitting fault for ANY person.  It's about being open to the possibility that you may have hurt someone and open to being accountable for your own actions. 

I spent a lot of energy working hubby's program.  i've reshifted my focus to working mine.  Where I'm still really lost is in the area of the kids.  Hubby said 2 days ago that he wanted to offer to bring kid(s) to G-ma's bec-se she's been doing the guilt-trip by not calling him at all.  From what I see, when she feels like she's losing controo, her pattern has been to not contact H for apx. 1 3/4 weeks and then H gets multiple phone calls with that start out with "Give me a call, Honey. Would'ya?" and move to sad-sounding requests and finally an edge of anger, but she never says anything in her messages other than basic "checking in"/"just wanna see how you're doing". 

anayway he wants to be proactive so as to avoid her barrage of calls. I get  that, but I don't agree with taking kids over there to avoid her manipulative behaviors.  He insists that's not it.  It feels like it, though. 

Also, I sugessted that he might benefit from individ. counseling. I have my own therapist for my stuff and we started aout 1 month ago with couples counselor.   I'm  learning to be less emotionally tied to his stuff and more realistic about possible side-effec 

[jillebean]

hello cb 

Before I get to adding to my pic, has anyone ever felt as though their child has come home from N relatives home with (I hate to say this but...) a condescending attitude towards you? Like they need to correct and point out your basic flaws and act like you could really use their help???? Not intentionally, but nore like mimicking a behavior...

now for response to CB123:
 
i used to view this part of my life as a never-ending battle between mil and me.  Then, i moved to acting the victim towards my husband, next the martyr with victim tendencies.  Now I'm in a place where I'm exploring my issues with boundaries and what effect they have had on my h and my children.  oh yeah... and i have always realized since i got sober that i invited mil to do her "thing" with me. 

H and I are working really hard at trying different ways of viewing and talking about kids' involvement.  While I still have strong emotional response to h talking to his mom I tell him that his relationship w/her is his alone.  To back up my words I'm keeping my mouth shut and literally finding somewhere to go outside of house if feelings are too intense.  As far as kids go, older 2 hardly ever go except for special occasions.  youngest does get excited to go because G-ma has oodles of barbies and a huge doll house from her practice as a child psychologist. 
also, G-Ma loves to shop and loves to give presents.  what little girl wouldn't love that?  And she tells Zoe (5) how much smarter she is than others.  she is super intelligent but I don't appreciate the gloating that can take place and noticing where other kids fall short. 
 
Where I am feeling kinda lost is with H saying he needs to address her recent behaviors with her and work on his boundary issues while feeling like he should take kids over there.  He's run into complete resistance and denial in making requests as parent.  Like with excessive gifts (90% which are un-needed/unwanted) and with teaching 5 year old how to organize, do laundry and mop the kitchen floor, and putting her in bathtub on longer visits when we've said "No need for bath today" The Kids aren't dirty"(used to put 9 yr. old son and 3 yr. old daughter in tub together which REALLY pised me off because son very uncomfortable with this and even if he wasn't, I WAS!!! sorry, took a step back for a moment... And most of all, there's a huge amount of tension in her home from all of the unspoken stuff.  Oh yeah, and I cringe when I think about the judging comments she has made to our kids.  She loves to use sarcasm to point out a flaw.  She can be really hurtful pointing out my kids appearances  (bony-butt,miss-minnie, and the 5 yr. old with the "butt and waist of a young woman) .  and she is all into teaching discipline via "play therapy".   and she has shamed 9 yr. old in past by handing him a plastic sheet in front of everyone to put on his bed when he has slept there.  That kind of shaming kills me inside. 

OK, so yesterday I told H that I would like for us to work on our parenting as a unit skills before we have  kids to her house.   Does that sound reasonable?