Arrrrghh!

[tayana]

M is staying with his grandmother this week so he can attend Bible school.  I wanted to pick him up every night, but my nmom would have none of that, so he's staying there.  He'll be coming back home tonight because he's homesick. 

So when I went home today to let the dog out, my mom calls me and lays this massive guilt trip on me because she doesn't think M will want to go back to Bible school, and he doesn't want to go to church, and he doesn't want to be baptized anymore, etc. etc. 

She says, "I knew this would happen when you moved."

We have been gone a week.  Couldn't she just let M adjust at his own pace.

[Hopalong]

I wanted to pick him up every night, but my nmom would have none of that, so he's staying there.

 

Yoicks, Tayana.    You're the mother. She can't steal your child and hold him hostage! She is using her "babysitting" (which I do understand you need right now...it's horrible that there isn't more support for parents so that you could take him to a safe appropriate government funded program while you work) -- but she's using it as blackmail.

I remember I allowed my Nmother to do that and have always regretted it. She said, D is so bright that we'll pay for her to go to private school. I'm thinking, wow... then the other shoe drops. "And we have chosen the school."

That was the deal. And I'm sorry I took it. She went to the same snobbish school I did, and suffered the same social ostracism. That said, she also got an excellent academic start, but jeez. Rock and a hard place.

I feel foryou, Tay. I'm glad he'll be in school soon. And I hope as quickly as possible you arrange things so YOU DO NOT DEPEND ON YOUR MOTHER FOR CHILD CARE.

She's a warped woman. M has enough challenges.

hugs
Hops

[tayana]

M is coming home tonight.  He's homesick and he wants to see his dog.  There was no mention of the dog staying with M during the day, and he did seem to do all right last night.  But he doesn't want to do watersports, and he's homesick.

She's been grilling him about this whole church thing, and the only thing I could think when she was on the phone was, "The child hasn't been to church since Easter.  You want him to go, and you want to go with him, but then you don't go."

Hops, I'll be so glad when school starts and we can cut out some of this nonsense.  It's just more stuff to make me feel guilty about moving.  Now I'm responsible for M doubting his religion.  The last I checked, religion was a very personal thing.  She went on and on about how she wanted M to be baptized, but it's on me to make sure that happens, and she knows I'm not a religious person.  Although I have considered a different church closer to home.

Next week, he'll be at camp, and that will be a relief.

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
   I am so sorry about your mother trying to use N as a pawn. They will stop at nothing   Love  Ami
              (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tayana and M))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[tayana]

Thanks, Ami.  I am so tired right now, and I just don't need this nonsense.  I'm still trying to get us settled and unpacked.  I finally started sleeping at night, and she still won't drop the whole guilt thing.

She can't understand why I wanted to move.  She thinks everything was so perfect, and it wasn't.  I can see that clearly now.

[lighter]

ARRRRGHHH is right, lol. 

When I think of her forbidding you from picking up M each night..... she's one crazy bitch and I'm sorry you're dependant on her right now for childcare.

As for the baptism and church thing..... that may have to do with her shoving it down his throat and saying negative things about you.  He may finally be bucking her a little.  That can't be all bad except the poor guy's still at her mercy for the week.

stay focused on you and helping M feel get through this.  He needs to know that he won't be forced to do the church thing and that you and he can research that together in the future as far as baptism goes. 

You don't need church to have a relationship with God.  A church may be in your future but I think your Mother has twisted and warped things in a negative way.  Hipachristians do more to turn good people away from orgnized religioun than anything, as far as I can see. 

This too shall pass, tayana.  School will start and you'll be all settled in your new home.  M will have his routine down and all will be calm soon enough. 

[WRITE]

She can't understand why I wanted to move.  She thinks everything was so perfect, and it wasn't.

it's just a week, you've done the right thing for long term.

Hops is right, you are in charge not your mother.
Don't buy into her gifts- you have to pay for them later.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[axa]

T,

Is there anyway you can organise alternative childcare.  I know it is expensive and you are under financial strain having just moved but the less influence that crazy has on your precious boy the better.  She will use him as a puppet to pull your strings.

Well done on the move

axa

[motheroffour]

It is an interesting thing to stand up to an N.  It is something that I have tried, on limited occasions, with my N-IL family.  I pay the price.  Doesn't matter if I am kind or assertive or if I am feeling a little aggressive or avoidant.  It generally seems to backfire.  If I withdraw, feel the pressure to "stop being so unloving".  Many of you have the NC rule.  Maybe this is why.....  The best success I have had is practicing the principles of detachment.  But I will tell you, man, one of their little tactics can level my spirit so fast.  How is it that they can get control, and keep our children overnight and we stand for that?   Love that idea of taking back the control.  CB.  That sounds really healthy.
When you do push back like that, CB,  what do you do with the punishment that comes?  Are you strong enough to let it bounce off you?

M0f4

[changing]

So true! It's almost like negotiating with the "Dear Leader" of North Korea! The Ns set up confrontations in the hope of winning concessions- when they get them, it just whets their appetite for more power and goodies. Best to avoid feeding their gaping maws. One week and some proselytizing , and the last segment of Poeration Freedom is completed (maybe you need to pick up some earplugs and dark shades as well)! You can do it!

Hugs,

Changing

[tayana]

I will post a complete update in another thread, but I wanted to answer some questions here.

I don't understand.  Can't you just say no?  Like, thank you for taking M to Bible camp but, no, he is not staying the night. 

CB, I did say no at one point.  I said I would come get him.  My mother said oh well, he's changed his mind now, he said he'll stay.  He stayed.  When I talked to him the next day, he was fine with it. He chose (was coerced or bribed) this.

BUT, he didn't go to Bible school but one night.  He told my mom he didn't want to go to church because I didn't want to go.  I told him he could go if he wanted to go.  He didn't have to stop going because of me.  My mother turned it into a big deal, blaming me for him not attending, even though she was the one who got him started and also the one who stopped going.  I ended up arranging this whole fiasco for nothing because he didn't even go to Bible school.

In the course of a week my mother bought him two new pair of shoes, even though I said I had planned to take him shoe shopping over the weekend.  He got two new toys, a bunch of food and candy, and also got to eat out at fast food places.  I don't buy fast food.  We cook at home, because I can make baked french fries that are just as good as the ones from the fast food joint.

But I will tell you, man, one of their little tactics can level my spirit so fast.  How is it that they can get control, and keep our children overnight and we stand for that?   Love that idea of taking back the control.  CB.  That sounds really healthy.
When you do push back like that, CB,  what do you do with the punishment that comes?  Are you strong enough to let it bounce off you?

Motheroffour, I think I eventually just give up.  I try to fight and stand up for myself to no avail.  My nmother will not listen to me or even consider that I might be right.  She then punishes me by doing this I'd planned to do with M, or intruding in my business, even though I tell her not to.  I have retaliated by telling her very little about my life.  If she knows nothing, then she can't intrude.  I don't talk to her about bills, about work, about repairs to my new home, etc.  If I tell her, then she intrudes.  And then she punishes me by stealing my control of any given situation.  I don't have the strength to keep playing this game.

As for the baptism and church thing..... that may have to do with her shoving it down his throat and saying negative things about you.  He may finally be bucking her a little.  That can't be all bad except the poor guy's still at her mercy for the week.

stay focused on you and helping M feel get through this.  He needs to know that he won't be forced to do the church thing and that you and he can research that together in the future as far as baptism goes. 

You don't need church to have a relationship with God.  A church may be in your future but I think your Mother has twisted and warped things in a negative way.  Hipachristians do more to turn good people away from orgnized religioun than anything, as far as I can see. 

LIghter, your last point is the major reason I don't attend church.  I consider myself a very spiritual person in that I believe in God, have a relationship with God and pray, but I'm not religious.  I don't find comfort in the church.  In fact, I feel very uncomfortable and unwelcome.  I don't push M into any sort of faith.  I think he's a little burned out on it because he attended a Christian school last year and had it shoved down his throat.  I have always taken the, "Wait till he asks approach," about these topics.

[motheroffour]

So hearing you Tayana!  Feel the exact same way with my N inlaws.  They want access to everything.  And I feel the same way.  I just get tired.  Try everything I can think to negotiate solutions for situations in the moment and negotiate more highlevel plans to keep me safe.  I too, am sick and tired of the game.  My therapist was saying the other night that of all the disorders in the world ( and she works on very tough, extreme cases) she said that she hates to work with N's because they will NEVER get it.  Sorry for the struggle.  Maybe all the boundaries you are putting up mean something even though she doesn't change.  even though her reactions are still disturbing.  Just the success of pushing back.  Sounds like you are doing great.  Let me know if you find any progress with shutting the door to her tactics with "not playing the game" successes.

--mof4

[tayana]

Mof4,

So far the shutting the door tactic hasn't worked real well.  My mother still finds ways to intrude, but I'm hoping it'll get better as I gain confidence and get better at saying no.   I still worry about "upsetting her."  I think that will be very helpful.  We'll see.

[motheroffour]

Well tayana,  I think all that "getting upset" at you IS nonsense.  This whole game of manipulation. Don't we have to call it like we see it when the ball comes across the plate?  "I see you.  I know what you are".  And then not let ourselves react.  Not let ourselves cave.  Love ourselves in the moment.  The other day my N-mil called and tried to diminish and devalue me.  I saw it coming.  Sat and watched and didn't react at all.  She squirmed a little and tried some other stuff and then quickly got off the phone.  Kinda felt like that was a victory for me.  Not reacting.  Not playing.  Not participating anymore in the game.  Still afraid of who she will tell and what she will say to discredit me.  I guess I can't care about all of that even though it hurts so badly.   I have decided her range of influence is limited and I need to go fishing for loyal friends outside of her circles.  Then she can't touch me.  But she is still grandma to my kids.  Yuck!  It is so complicated.

"She always finds a way to intrude."

It is funny.  In the last 9 mos, after my husband stopped playing her game and told her to back off, I still see her try.  But she is much more fearful and protective now.  She stays away.  And blames us for hurting her, yes.  Heck! She blames us for everything.  But she is more hesitant to use her power directly.  Kinda like she is learning that we can't be controlled anymore.  At least I hope that is what it is.  Kinda looks like she realizes she can't get her needs met thru us and so she is cutting us out and focusing on others who provide her supply. 

Guess we can practice all this stuff together, eh?  Good luck.

[tayana]

I understand exactly what you're saying, Mof4.  I've tried to take the non-reactive approach.  On the phone today, my mom tried to get a rise out of me over the two weeks where I have no camp to send M.  She started her thing about what I'm going to do, and I told her I didn't know yet.  I wouldn't discuss it further.

It seems to work, but it's slow about working.  I've taken the route of not calling her, and having her call me.  She tried to lay a big guilt trip on me because she's going to the doctor today, and I just didn't react.  She wants me to feel like her health problems are my fault.  I don't think they are.  She deliberately does things that are bad for her and her body.  I'm not responsible for that.

We do have to stick together.  We have to help each other navigate these treacherous N waters, because sometimes I end up being manipulated without really realizing it.