Frustration with a Friend

[BonesMS]

Yesterday, a friend of mine invited me to go with her to visit the Franciscan Monastery in Washington, D.C. and I accepted her invitation.  We also had her mother, who has late stages of Alzheimer's Disease, with us.  If anyone is familiar with the structure of the Monastery, it is NOT wheelchair accessible everywhere.  When the tour group came to the part of the tour down to the replica of the Catacombs, this required maneuvering down a winding spiral staircase of MARBLE stairs!  Keep in mind, my friend's mother is (a) 89 and 11 months years old, (b) her Alzheimer's Disease has progressed to the point where her balance and coordination are failing.  My friend INSISTED that her mother could do these marble stairs IN SPITE of BOTH the tour guide and myself strongly advising her NOT to subject her mother to this hazard!  She ignored both of us and forced her mother down these marble stairs while imposing on the tour guide to carry the wheelchair down these stairs!  I was appalled and ready to shake her!!!  It appeared to me that she was so FOCUSED on her own immediate gratification of what SHE wanted that she was completely ignoring her mother's disability because it was inconvenient.  Talking to her is also an exercise in frustration because of her denial and her acting as if all her assumptions are always true.  It's as if she is going through life with blinders on and continually giving herself permission to do whatever she wants...ignoring the impact it is having on others around her!!

GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

Bones

[Ami]

Wow,Bones..Your friend was ,obviously, not dealing with "reality" at that moment. She was acting on some lie,distortion or fantasy in her own mind. Maybe, she did not want to face how "bad' her mother was?
  Whatever she was dealing with was 'blocking" the facing of the true facts, it seems .I would not travel anymore with her and her mother(lol)     Love   Ami

[pennyplant]

It seems like your friend knew she would be able to count on someone, the tour guide, to assist her in her unreasonableness.  The tour guide was in a rough spot.  "The customer is always right" and there was a whole group of witnesses to add pressure to the situation.  The tour guide probably had never run into someone so unreasonable and, in the moment, probably did not have a ready response to something so ridiculous and unreasonable.  This is the way N-types get so much of what they want.  They seem to know how to do this naturally.

Pennyplant

[BonesMS]

Wow,Bones..Your friend was ,obviously, not dealing with "reality" at that moment. She was acting on some lie,distortion or fantasy in her own mind. Maybe, she did not want to face how "bad' her mother was?
  Whatever she was dealing with was 'blocking" the facing of the true facts, it seems .I would not travel anymore with her and her mother(lol)     Love   Ami

I do try to continually intercede on the mother's behalf since I'm aware of what Alzheimer's is about and poor Mom can't speak up for herself.

Bones

[BonesMS]

It seems like your friend knew she would be able to count on someone, the tour guide, to assist her in her unreasonableness.  The tour guide was in a rough spot.  "The customer is always right" and there was a whole group of witnesses to add pressure to the situation.  The tour guide probably had never run into someone so unreasonable and, in the moment, probably did not have a ready response to something so ridiculous and unreasonable.  This is the way N-types get so much of what they want.  They seem to know how to do this naturally.

Pennyplant

That describes the situation perfectly!

Bones

[Certain Hope]

Bones,

What you describe of your friend fits my brother to a "t". Toward the end of our grandmother's life, he was still treating her in this oblivious manner. She still had control over her mental functions and was able to tell him "no", but then he'd sulk and behave as though she was being difficult. Before I knew of "N", I thought that he was just in denial. Now I think it's a whole lot more than that.
Whatever it is, there's no changin it as far as I can tell. He's pushing 60 and still expects our 86 year old dad to tend to his summer home and mow his acres of weeds.
I'm sorry you were caught in the middle of this. As Pennyplant said, they just seem to know how to shock people into compliance.
So unreasonable, so ridiculous... people seem to freeze in a moment of disbelief and then click into robot mode and go along with it.
Honestly, it's the closest thing to casting a spell on someone that I've ever seen.

Hope

[BonesMS]

Bones,

What you describe of your friend fits my brother to a "t". Toward the end of our grandmother's life, he was still treating her in this oblivious manner. She still had control over her mental functions and was able to tell him "no", but then he'd sulk and behave as though she was being difficult. Before I knew of "N", I thought that he was just in denial. Now I think it's a whole lot more than that.
Whatever it is, there's no changin it as far as I can tell. He's pushing 60 and still expects our 86 year old dad to tend to his summer home and mow his acres of weeds.
I'm sorry you were caught in the middle of this. As Pennyplant said, they just seem to know how to shock people into compliance.
So unreasonable, so ridiculous... people seem to freeze in a moment of disbelief and then click into robot mode and go along with it.
Honestly, it's the closest thing to casting a spell on someone that I've ever seen.

Hope

The tour guide was clearly in a No-Win situation.  At times, I have ended up YELLING at her when she does stupid stuff like this and my yelling FINALLY gets her attention.  Then she'll respond with something like:  "Ohhhhhh!!!! Does THAT mean (insert the obvious)."  In this situation, inside a church where people were praying, I couldn't raise my voice.  At the same time, I was FUMING and she continued to act oblivious to the expression on my face!  I would have LOVED to haul off and slap her but then I would be arrested for assault and battery.  Sheesh!!!

Bones

[Hopalong]

Boy howdy,
What brothers me most in this situation is a nearly 90-year-old woman being harrassed into something that was both dangerous and no doubt exhausting for her. She was the vulnerable one and your friend sounds abusive.

I believe I wouldn't have been able not to tell her: STOP it! This is too much for your mother!

Having Alzheimer's doesn't remove her right to be treated with compassion.

Hops

[BonesMS]

Boy howdy,
What brothers me most in this situation is a nearly 90-year-old woman being harrassed into something that was both dangerous and no doubt exhausting for her. She was the vulnerable one and your friend sounds abusive.

I believe I wouldn't have been able not to tell her: STOP it! This is too much for your mother!

Having Alzheimer's doesn't remove her right to be treated with compassion.

Hops

I agree!  And I have YELLED at her. more than once, about her actions and behaviors.  Unfortunately, she still tends to go through life with her following philosophy:  "I ASSUME that my assumptions are ALWAYS MAGICALLY TRUE and I ASSUME it's OKAY because I ALWAYS give MYSELF permission..."  At times, she gets an idea fixated in her brain and as soon as she hears the word "NO", she gets this glaze over her eyes and starts "dithering" in the vain hope that the "NO" will magically change into a "YES".  The only thing that succeeds in doing is starting me to YELLING again.  Then she'll respond with something like:  "Oh-h-h-h-h-!  Does THAT mean "NO"?"  Then I YELL at her some more while I get this blank look from her.  I HATE being FORCED to EXPLAIN THE OBVIOUS REPEATEDLY!!!!!!!!

Bones

[dandylife]

This is when a clear statement of consequences is needed.

"If you continue to try bringing your mother down those dangerous steps I'm afraid I'm going to have to have the tour guide call security to watch over your mother. If you wish to continue on our tour and see some of the other sites, I'd be happy to accompany you."

NO doubt as to what will happen either way.

Then follow through.

Don't be scared to call security. Ever.

Dandylife

[BonesMS]

This is when a clear statement of consequences is needed.

"If you continue to try bringing your mother down those dangerous steps I'm afraid I'm going to have to have the tour guide call security to watch over your mother. If you wish to continue on our tour and see some of the other sites, I'd be happy to accompany you."

NO doubt as to what will happen either way.

Then follow through.

Don't be scared to call security. Ever.

Dandylife

Thanks, Dandylife.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a security force at the Monastery with the monks there.

Bones

[isittoolate]

Definite action to be taken.

Being in a 'chair and also used to use crutches when younger, the intense fear I would have in some places was 'paralyzing' (pardon the pun) but I mean that.

When I broke my ankle in '03 was the last I used the crutches. It was Xmas and a gal invited me, but she made no arrangements for someone to help me up the 14 steps coming in the front.

She did it herself as I ambulated up a slight snowy slope of grass [slippery] then 4 steps + landing +4 steps and she carried my chair. My cast [Roboboot] made my legs different lengths and she was so little that I would have killed her had I fallen backwards.

That kind of fear--of falliing and braking something, let alone somethiung important, dopes make one's head just go totally empty except for fear.

I haven't returned and that is my choice because her place is oputside the limits of my situation.

xx
Izzy

[sally]

Dear Bones,

Your story makes me think about books I've read which said that once we become aware of narcissism, we start looking at our "friends" and we may find them to be Ns.

This has already happened to me and I have stopped being "friendly" with former friends.  I began to see their toxicity and decide life was too short to spend time with them.

Love,
sally

PS:  Read about your job situation and I am so sorry.  But, somewhere in my gut, I feel you can turn lemons into lemonade, may be a blessing in disguise.

Idea/question:  Is it difficult in your area to become certified to teach grade school?  If not, what about getting your teaching credentials and combining that with substance abuse and working in a school?

Sorry, I should post this on your job thread.

Love,
Sally

[BonesMS]

Dear Bones,

Your story makes me think about books I've read which said that once we become aware of narcissism, we start looking at our "friends" and we may find them to be Ns.

This has already happened to me and I have stopped being "friendly" with former friends.  I began to see their toxicity and decide life was too short to spend time with them.

Love,
sally

PS:  Read about your job situation and I am so sorry.  But, somewhere in my gut, I feel you can turn lemons into lemonade, may be a blessing in disguise.

Idea/question:  Is it difficult in your area to become certified to teach grade school?  If not, what about getting your teaching credentials and combining that with substance abuse and working in a school?

Sorry, I should post this on your job thread.

Love,
Sally

Thanks, Sally.

After working in a school setting for 26 years, then getting physically assaulted by a student, I have no desire to be dealing with school kids again.

Bones

[BonesMS]

Definite action to be taken.

Being in a 'chair and also used to use crutches when younger, the intense fear I would have in some places was 'paralyzing' (pardon the pun) but I mean that.

When I broke my ankle in '03 was the last I used the crutches. It was Xmas and a gal invited me, but she made no arrangements for someone to help me up the 14 steps coming in the front.

She did it herself as I ambulated up a slight snowy slope of grass [slippery] then 4 steps + landing +4 steps and she carried my chair. My cast [Roboboot] made my legs different lengths and she was so little that I would have killed her had I fallen backwards.

That kind of fear--of falliing and braking something, let alone somethiung important, dopes make one's head just go totally empty except for fear.

I haven't returned and that is my choice because her place is oputside the limits of my situation.

xx
Izzy

One of my fears was watching this nearly 90-year-old lady lose her balance or her footing on this winding marble staircase which had no treads on the risers to give her any additional traction.

Bones