What's best for a young child in this case?

[Certain Hope]

Hi, all

I'd like to hear your views on this, if you wouldn't mind opining 

My granddaughter is 3 1/2.
She and her mom, my eldest, live far away and are facing an issue about which my daughter has asked my advice.

Daughter is divorced now from her little girl's dad and they have joint custody.
Dad is a mess... drug problems and more. In fact, he's about to go to jail for one year.
Elisia (my granddaughter) has witnessed one of his arrests and knows that daddy went to "jail" for awhile at that time.
But this time it's for a year... and my daughter's question is - should she take Elisia to see her Dad while he's there.

I honestly don't know.
My youngest is 11 now and with some of the things we've had to manage in our family, I hate to see a little one need to deal with something like this at her tender age... and yet I don't really know how much of it she'll even comprehend.
Might it be even worse for her to have her dad disappear from her life for so long at this stage?
In the meanwhile, my daughter plans to pursue gaining full custody, but I don't think she'll try to prevent him from seeing her when he gets out.
The only thought I have is - at least Elisia is not in school yet where she'd potentially hear some awful stuff if she spoke up about the situation.

So - what do you think? Many thanks!

Hope

[mountainspring]

Hi CH,

This is a hard situation.  I wonder if the decision has to be made right now.  In time, your little granddaughter will may let your daughter know what the best solution is.  Maybe when she asks about her father, your daughter could explain without a lot of the details where he is and when he will be back.  Then, if seeing him seems to be a big issue for your granddaughter, your daughter could take her and supervise the visit.  But if she's content with the answer, she could wait for his release.  I think kids need to have a voice, but she's so young.  I'm not sure.

[Certain Hope]

Thank you, Mountainspring... this helps.

And I think you're right... maybe there's no need to make a plan right now, but just play it by ear.
Sometimes I get so caught up in trying to determine what is the "right" thing that I miss the simplest things...
there's no rule which says "thou shalt have a definite plan" 

My daughter and I both have such mixed emotions about this whole mess...
while it's sad that this little "daddy's girl" will be separated from her father, we're both relieved to have him out of the picture for a time. He has been quite a "wild card", to say the least, and abusive at times to my daughter.

Thanks again for your thoughts...  it strikes me just now how peaceful it can be to just admit - "I don't know" what is best.
All the more reason for prayer.

With love,
Hope

[Ami]

Dear Hope,
  I am so sorry that you  and your family are going through this. I probably would take the child to see the father b/c honesty( age appropriate) is  best for kids. Kids "know" most of what is happening, anyway.The worst thing is for the child to feel as if there is something wrong and to be told otherwise. I would explain it all  with  a  perspective. that she could understand. I would particularly  say that Daddy made a  bad mistake but loves you very,very much . If you are not honest, children are more likely to get "crazy" explanations in their heads and be afraid to ask about them
                                                         Love  Ami   (((((((((((((((Hope))))))))))))))))))

[Certain Hope]

Thank you, Ami... and thank you for the hugs, too. This one is hurtful... and it opens up a whole other can of moldy, old worms from way back when my childrens' dad went to jail for his sexually abusive behaviour. It's not a stabbing pain, but more of an ancient ache. (((((((((((Ami))))))))))))

I guess I struggle with not knowing how much a 3 1/2 year old might understand, so it's hard to tell what might be age-appropriate in this case. But as Mountainspring suggested - letting the little girl lead the way in asking what she wants to know is likely best.
No sense in trying to answer questions which haven't even been asked.

And you are absolutely right! I agree that the worst thing would be for her to be told that nothing's wrong when she knows in her little heart that there is. Thank you so much for your help. I'll be talking with my daughter tomorrow on the phone and will pass these things on.

With love,
Hope

[pennyplant]

If it were me I would not want to expose my little girl to the jail environment.  They can write letters back and forth and talk about the situation.  It's good to be honest, but I would be afraid of "normalizing" the dad-in-jail-lifestyle.

Pennyplant

[dandylife]

Part of the consequence of doing something that lands you in jail is that you don't get to see your young children.

Do not subject them to this just so that the guy "gets to see his children".

They will do better without being in that environment.

Dandylife

[Hopalong]

My vote is no jail for anybody that little.
Too confusing.

No explanation will remove trauma.

It's traumatic to see armed guards,
a cold clanging hostile buzzing environment.
All the suppressed heartbreak, anguish
and anger.

Far better for her to make special drawings
to send Dad, and meanwhile, to have GOOD
stable men in her life as role models. Shouldn't
be hard to find a kind man who'd take an extra
interest in a fatherless 3 y/o.

I'd put the energy there. I think it's just too much
sadness. She'd seen people crying, weird communication,
suppressed stuff leaking out around her....

I can't visualize how it'd be good for a 3 y/o.

Could be wrong, but I'd sure read up on it first.
(Well, just did.... http://www.google.com/search?q=young+children+visiting+prison&hl=en&start=20&sa=N)
and now I'm not sure.

Many posters on forums, etc., say it's important to take them.
Other links said whether a prison is family-friendly or not can make a big difference, i.e., whether they have to sit in a chair and look across a table or whether they can interact, etc.

I am sure you and your D can do good reading. My other hesitation was how abusive was he to your D, and does she feel he's safe to be in her D's life? That would play into such a decision too.

Poor little sprite. If she misses him and asks for him, the consensus seems to be...take her.
(But only after the mother has been on her own once, so she can check out the visiting room, etc and know what to describe for her little girl to expect.)

Hops

[BonesMS]

Hi, all

I'd like to hear your views on this, if you wouldn't mind opining 

My granddaughter is 3 1/2.
She and her mom, my eldest, live far away and are facing an issue about which my daughter has asked my advice.

Daughter is divorced now from her little girl's dad and they have joint custody.
Dad is a mess... drug problems and more. In fact, he's about to go to jail for one year.
Elisia (my granddaughter) has witnessed one of his arrests and knows that daddy went to "jail" for awhile at that time.
But this time it's for a year... and my daughter's question is - should she take Elisia to see her Dad while he's there.

I honestly don't know.
My youngest is 11 now and with some of the things we've had to manage in our family, I hate to see a little one need to deal with something like this at her tender age... and yet I don't really know how much of it she'll even comprehend.
Might it be even worse for her to have her dad disappear from her life for so long at this stage?
In the meanwhile, my daughter plans to pursue gaining full custody, but I don't think she'll try to prevent him from seeing her when he gets out.
The only thought I have is - at least Elisia is not in school yet where she'd potentially hear some awful stuff if she spoke up about the situation.

So - what do you think? Many thanks!

Hope

Hi, Hope.

As someone who is currently working in a minimum security correctional facility, I think I can share my opinion.  Do you know what type of facility your ex-son-in-law will be going to?  The reason I ask is that some facilities allow for inmates to interact with their children while other facilities require a glass partition with no physical contact allowed.  If he's being sent to a minimum security prison similar to where I work, I would encourage interaction between father and daughter.  That way, your granddaughter gets to see her father and, possibly, the addiction counselors there can help him understand how his actions impact his daughter.  If, on the other hand, the correctional facility has the glass partitions for visitors, your granddaughter may not understand why she can't go to her daddy and that could be stressful so it all depends on the type of correctional facility.

Bones

[Tweety]

(((((((((((((Hope)))))))))))))
I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. I would let your grandaughter lead you with the info she is able to understand. From a child's perspective ( My own growing up ) I was lied to and I knew something was wrong. It left me struggling my whole life with my instincts a battle with myself of what I "felt" and intuitively knew to be true and what was told to me. So I'm big on telling children the truth in an age appropriate way. I can identify with your struggle on making the right decision. Sometimes if you just let it be for a bit, it gives "God" and or the universe a chance to step in and lead the way or you to the answer. We get so caught up in doing things and responding in ways that we know and are familiar to us , (the only way we know). That sometimes there are possible answerers that never occurred to us if we give it a little time to work its way out. as for me i would bring her to a child therapist and let the therapist asses the situation and than you would have more info to make a decision.
Love, Tweety

[Certain Hope]

Hops,

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, it makes good sense to me for my daughter to check out the visiting-area conditions before making a decision. As far as his level of abusiveness... my daughter feels confident that he would never harm his daughter.
I disagree, because personally I'd place zero confidence in an addict, but my "say" in that matter is minimal... can only offer counsel when invited. I'm only thankful that she told me about this situation and didn't try to conceal it.

Hi, Bones,

It's good to read you! I didn't realize that you're working in a correctional facility. Sorry, I have not even begun to catch up on reading here... but that is good news - I hope! 
No, I don't know what type of facility he'll be in. His sentencing will be end-August, but because this jail term is the result of a plea-bargain, he (and my daughter) have advance notice of the outcome. I'll ask her whether she has more details. I hadn't even considered the option that he may actually receive counseling while there... thank you for pointing that out! Oh, that would be so wonderful. Lord knows this little family needs help.
I'll find out as much as I can about the surroundings and post back with an update when possible. Thank you for your reply!

Tweety,

Thank you. I'm trying to keep the positive aspects of this in the forefront... the opportunity for my daughter to go on with her life without his constant access to her. With the geographic distance between us, I barely know my little granddaughter, but talking with her on the phone I can sure see that she's a clever girl. Talks up a storm, curious, a bit bossy... a real no-nonsense kiddo 
What you've said here about letting it be for a bit... you've got it. I do get caught up in responding in known, familiar ways... and this does take me back to another time which I'd really rather not re-visit. Thank you. That's why I wanted to ask here... and get the varied responses... to get past any mental blocks of which I may not even be aware. I don't know whether or not my daughter would have access to a child therapist in the area, but I'll ask re: the possibility. Maybe the court system that ex-son-in-law is going through could arrange some sort of counseling for my daughter and granddaughter... I know they do that when there's a divorce.
(((((Tweety))))) thank you so much.

Thank you all so much.
I feel better... more "up to snuff" regarding various options, and definitely not so alone in this.

With love,
Hope

[BonesMS]

Glad I could help what I can, Hope.

What state is this situation taking place in?  I might be able to research the state to see if they have a similar program in their correctional facilities similar to what is here in Maryland.

Bones

[Certain Hope]

Glad I could help what I can, Hope.

What state is this situation taking place in?  I might be able to research the state to see if they have a similar program in their correctional facilities similar to what is here in Maryland.

Bones

Bones, it's Michigan. Thank you!

Hope

[Certain Hope]

Bones... and everyone,

Spoke with my daughter today and the place where he's to be incarcerated is a very small-town county jail.
She says that the only visiting facilities are tiny cubbies, complete with glass partition and phone.
Definitely doesn't sound like a place for a little girl.

And she brought something else to my mind, which is even more concerning than the physical surroundings there...
her ex-husband is apparently in denial re: his sentencing and still thinks that the judge will let him off to do only weekends for his jail-time. This young man is quite the character and we're thinking now that his own emotional state once he's there may not be appropriate for a young child to witness.

So she's going to play it by ear and try to at least provide a phone card for him to use to speak with Elisia on occasion.
I will definitely be praying alot.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and help.

With love,
Hope

[BonesMS]

Bones... and everyone,

Spoke with my daughter today and the place where he's to be incarcerated is a very small-town county jail.
She says that the only visiting facilities are tiny cubbies, complete with glass partition and phone.
Definitely doesn't sound like a place for a little girl.

And she brought something else to my mind, which is even more concerning than the physical surroundings there...
her ex-husband is apparently in denial re: his sentencing and still thinks that the judge will let him off to do only weekends for his jail-time. This young man is quite the character and we're thinking now that his own emotional state once he's there may not be appropriate for a young child to witness.

So she's going to play it by ear and try to at least provide a phone card for him to use to speak with Elisia on occasion.
I will definitely be praying alot.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and help.

With love,
Hope

You're welcome and thanks for letting me know. 

Can you let me know the name of this small-town city jail so I can GOOGLE it and see if they provide substance abuse counseling there?  A small-town city jail might not do the same things as a state-run correctional facility.

Bones