Emotional isolation: alone and/or lonely

[Portia]

‘....

[rosencrantz]

Hurray for Portia!!

If I still lived in you-know-where on the west of you and my other friend with the violent horrible mother still lived in you-know-where on the east of you, then we'd all meet up in that hotel we know near where you live and discover we either hated each other on sight or have a regular meet-up once a month to just talk about how horrible mothers are and how brilliant we have become.  And I'd drag you off to the business women's luncheon in you-know-where-else and you'd hate every minute of it, make great contacts and live happily ever after!!!      

Is that too intimate to say??

Anyway, it's easy to say but the thought of DOING it terrifies me.  My very best friend is someone I know via the internet.  I knew her years ago but we met up again via email - after which we worked together over the internet, I supported her in lots of ways, and then suddenly I discovered she was supporting ME!!!  We have a great relationship - I can tell her anything! - but we never see each other face to face and I really was anxious about meeting up again.  She visited me with her family, I visited her.  Once each!

We spent an amazing afternoon just talking about nothing in particular.  Kids with fathers.  But I still feel anxious whenever she mentions meeting up, coming to stay, me going to stay.  My son is the same age as hers and they like each other.  What a waste!!!  I just so don't want to spoil it.  I'll get on her nerves; I'll want to hide away; I won't know what the 'rules' are in her home, I'm not sure I can cope with having someone around all the time in my own.  (Treat me like a hotel, and I'd be happy!)  I don't even phone her.  I've lost touch with another good friend because I won't/can't call and she has her own good reasons not to have access to the internet.  What a rotten way for me to treat a friend.

Portia, if you responded to me like you did to that woman with the curry, I'd think you disdained me.  I'm not good enough.  She doesn't want me around.  I shouldn't have tried.  What an idiot I was.  Shame curling up round my ears.  I'm so stupid.  Add the cultural difference and I'd assume you disliked me for what I appear to be.  Heck, I'd probably think you'd 'defined' me in some strange way that had nothing to do with me!!!

Thank God for people like her who are determined to make friends, who value other people and have the self-confidence to pursue decent people - even suspicious ones!!!  What a gift to be able to cook; what a gift of a GIFT to give you!!!

She did it because she could!  She did it because she liked you or liked the look of you!  She wanted to know you better.  She just wanted somebody's companionship (she's an E!!) and you were it!  You lucky girl!!! I suppose she could be a psycho wanting to poison you or drug you!!!  (Oh, you hadn't thought of that!  )

Ah, but, you ask - what do you do in return?  Were we never taught social skills by our parents?????  My mother never entertained, she never made friends, we never had other adults visit.  She seemed to have 'friends' around from a past life - mysterious to me.  Where did they come from? They never visited us tho we occasionally visited them (usually at Xmas to exchange gifts).

I'd ask your neighbour to elevenses - coffee.  I only know that because when you have a child you get involved in coffee mornings.  It's part of the culture of motherhood along with discussing the relative merits of soap powder.  Stepford wives???  Who cares!!  Satire is not real life.  And satirists probably haven't got any friends either!!      

For some reason I'm thinking of The Golden Notebook - feminist writer - forgotten her name.

And yes, professionally, I do what you do, too.  Someone makes the smallest criticism and I am filled with shame that I have not fulfilled the brief, have got it all wrong.  Aw, I don't need those 'reasons' - I am just 'filled with shame' no ifs or buts.  Full to the brim.  I got it wrong.  All wrong.  Worthless.

BUT I keep the money!!  My H taught me about money representing the value you put on yourself (in the workplace).  I've worked on that for years.  And I don't give in any more! (Oh, dear - does that sound familiar - a childhood solution again!!!).  I keep the money.  I require payment for my skills.  Plenty of people less 'talented' than I get paid, why not me??!  But I still feel shame and never go back!!  

But now, this year, I've run out of courage - I have a great skill to sell but I'm avoiding it like the plague.  One small hiccup and that's it.  Gone.  I can't ask for money any more.  It's too much pressure - I don't function if payment is involved - hey, I become 'dysfunctional'!!!    

I've found a way around it with another of my 'portfolio' of business interests.  I earn great money there as a result of work I did last year.  I discovered today I earned £3000 last month - yeehah! - but you know I don't care about the 'money' - what I care about is that I did it!!!  I care I can buy the things I want without feeling guilty - have my alternative therapies, buy my books.  I care that the independence has made it possible to confront my H about the things he does 'to' me.  I love the miracle that it's flowing through my home.  

I'm frightened that this painful year will have a knock-on effect and next year I won't earn anything at all.  But I'm hoping I can 'recover' my ability to get out and about and TALK and SHARE face to face again in the next few months.  I just can't stand the thought of not being wanted.  Yes, me!  Not my product or service - but 'me'.  And there's no difference between the two.  It is 'me' and I am 'it'!!!

I don't understand the dynamics of this at all. (Agh - it's a description of the relationship between me and my MOTHER!!!)

When we got married, my H and I jointly bought a flat.  I was renting, he owned a small flat. We combined finances.  He had another flat he'd bought for his (now deceased) parents.  He gave it to me - I accepted it as my bolt hole should anything 'go wrong'.  Good tax reasons anyway.  He always talks about it as mine; I talk about it as 'his'.  Wasn't it Virginia Woolf who spoke about the importance of 'a room of one's own'??

I understand 'not paying' - it means you're not beholden.  'They''ve got a hold over you if you've given anything of your own (independence)  away.  You 'have to' give something back.  And it might be something you don't want to give back.  

I'm puzzling cos I'm feeling that way these days - but I haven't always felt that way.

I used to give a lot away    - so 'they''d be beholden to me!!!  But somehow it doesn't seem to work that way where I live now.  There's noone who needs what I've got!!!!!!!!!!!        (I'm thinking : but surely that's only in my imagination!!! I can't believe I'm in this 'same old groove'!!!)  But it's 'true' round here - everyone knows everyone, I'm an outsider - my home is referred to as belonging to someone who lived in it 20 years ago!!!  No coffee mornings - there are 3, 4, 5 generations living here and they all mix with each other.  How will I ever penetrate - I don't know the rules of the game here (familiar groove).

You know, I would never allow myself to wear blue.  Because it was my favourite colour and I'm not allowed anything I want.  So I can't even 'have' the colour blue.  Self-sacrifice.

Are you sacrificing something for someone else, too???  Commitment???

I've no idea where I'm going here.  Just 'following my nose', sniffing round a long and winding trail, letting you know what I find comes up for me along the trail you've already marked out here.  (Back to dogs and cats again!!!)  

Of course, my 'lawyer' brain says : absolutely right what you're doing.  Living with someone who's half divorced - I wouldn't change a single iota of what you're doing!!!!!  

But I'd want more than that - let OH get his unfinished business finished (or else!) then move to the country and set up an animal sanctuary for families to come visit!!!   Don't fight it!  

But then, I've never burnt my bridges - always 'trying', always 'hoping'.  My H is happy to burn bridges - indifferent to all except me and our son. And I live with so much clutter, it would take a pantechnicon to move me.  Still weighing me down so I won't take flight!!!    

I'll stop!!!  You can ignore all this.  I just want you to know that you're not alone!!!
R

[Peanut]

Hi Portia:  I want to understand.  This is what I got so far...

Portia =
No ties, no commitments, and no one to whom she feels obligated or for whom she feels responsible.   Well 'thought' out decision to never marry or have children.  'Feels', "stupid".  'Feel' hurt and alone.

Warmest regards, Peanut

[Wildflower]

I got so excited for you when I read this post and the one on RG’s thread.  Wahoooo!!!  The heart’s bustin out, hunh?  

I’ve been struggling with some of this stuff for a little while myself.  It’s really hard, isn’t it?  I mean, our parents didn’t teach us how to socialize well.  If anything, they taught us how to pull back and be wary of others.  To remove ourselves from the world.  And boy, you better not get attached, ‘cos you’ll just get hurt in the process.  That’s where I’m sitting, at least.

Maybe it’s okay to keep your finances separate from your OH, but what I hear you saying doesn’t seem to have anything to do with money – but what the money represents.  You’ve been with him for 8 years, but there are all these rules set up to keep you from getting too close to him.  To be bound to him.  Is that close?  Am I hearing you?

About your neighbor who wants to give you lunch, my hunch is that it makes her feel good on some level to do this for you.  At the very least, I think it’s safe to assume that.  And I bet it makes her feel good in a normal way – not in a crazy manipulative ha, ha, ha you finally let me in the door now I can bite you on the neck and suck you dry kind of way.  

So, if you assume for a bit that her intentions are good, now what?  I like R’s idea for coffee, or maybe even lunch out somewhere unless you like to cook, too.  It was her idea to make lunch for you, but it would probably make things easier if you felt you were putting an equal amount back into the … relationship?  Gosh that was quick.  But does it have to be serious?  Nah.  Can it be a good and fun opportunity to learn about another culture?  Absolutely.  

And for the record, I can’t see what’s wrong with you (there’s something wrong with you? ).  And I’d say no one really could if there were – especially when it comes to us ACONs who’ve been hiding our true selves for so long.

Keep going!  I can’t wait to read more of your work in progress .

Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

I've been (slightly) beating myself up about my long reply. But I woke up this morning knowing 'why'!  I thought you were very courageous in posting what you did.  In fact, I know you were!!  And that was my way of 'protecting' you and supporting you - by exposing myself even more!!!

Clearly there's a logic in it for me because it's 'what I do'.  Whether it's a childhood thing or a rational 'choice', I'm not sure.  Not a 'choice' if I do it without 'knowing' what I'm doing!!!  And I have done this in the past, only to receive a stab wound in return.  (Oh, sh**, it is a childhood thing isn't it!!).  Anyway, the intention was well-meant (!).  

Loved Wildflower's reply - and concur!!!  Or do we have to come and drage you out?      
Hugs
R

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia, here we go, the four musketeers. All over here cheering you on. Tell me more about the Indian food, sounds so yum!

I find your isolationist approach very appealling. Very Germaine Greer! Only without the dogs, you've got OH instead. Well, at least you don't have to clean the mites out of his ears. But it reminds me of a line from a motivational seminar I went to once. Gee I hate motivational seminars.

The speaker was talking about a period he went through with his son who was being difficult, unmotivated and not studying. The son was also wanting to drop out of medical school, and claimed he didn't care what he was going to do for a crust. He'd be rubbish man if he wanted to and nobody was going to stop him. His father said "Fine, be a rubbish man, after you finish med school. I'll support you all the way in being a rubbish man then, if it's still what you want! Just don't be a rubbish man because you have to, be a rubbish man because you want to."

So, when I read how independant you are, I'm so in admiration of you in some, no, so many ways! You are a truly independant woman. An active living feminist. Virginia Woolf would be so proud. A room of one's own and 500 pounds a year. Fantastic. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you knew you were living like this freely, from choice, because it's what you wanted and planned for yourself.  And the result of shit parenting. Right?

I guess it really is the case for some of us to force ourselves to incorporate more of the world into our lives. To say "Yes" more often. I've started to do this, and once I do I find it's good for me. The pet thing is interesting. I wish I could buy you a budgie.

And we grow and learn as we get out more. I had an interesting self-revealing experience a few weeks. If I hadn't gone out that day, it may not have hit me. I go girlie shopping with some social gossip friends. I try to get out of because I'm lousy at girlie shopping, but one of my E friends pesters me (thankfully) so I go.  I'm more like a bloke, leaning against the corner, grunting. And I can't tell them, "Yes, it makes your arse look fat."

Anyway, on to my point. I realised just recently, watching my friends enjoying themselves, shopping and trying on new clothes, "I can't do  that." I never buy clothes for myself. NEVER. I can't remember the last time I bought something new. I won't go to work functions if it means I have to buy somehting new. My family give clothes sometimes. My friends give me jumpers and things. Other than a necessary set of new knickers, I just can't do it. My daughter nags me about it, and so I go with her, pick things up but then I usually put them back before I get to the check-out.

It makes me feel so guilty if I spend money on myself, and we're not hard up. I guess lower somewhere in the middle of middle-class. And I'm not a miser, I love buying for others. I'm a real gift giver and for no special occassion. I see little candles, flowers, books, trinkets and think of my friends and buy them for them. I really love it. And I know I indulge my kids and they have way too many clothes and toys.

But with me, it's like I don't think I'm worth the money. Like I said, I only realised this about myself a couple of weeks ago, so I'm still exploring the whole notion. I haven't worked it out yet. But something in your post triggered it again. Gee this is a good place to sort though stuff. But for me, the more I resist the urge to say "No" the better I think.

Biggest hug ((( )))

CG

[Anonymous]

This is the third time I have attempted to respond and each time, the keyboard ghost sends my post away....away.  How maddening!  I will try again.  

Yup, I can understand your feeling like you have a lot of work to do and things you have ignored.  Little by little.  Put up msgs here about the ways you have done that.  I intend to as well.

As you have lived in your own home for awhile (8 years?) why not consider getting an animal or two?  (two so they won't be lonely.)  They are a responsibility and I can't take off at a moments notice anymore and fly somewhere but if I did not have their warmth and love, my "cave" would have cave in on me for sure.  I don't regret that decision for a minute.  Just have to pay attention to quarantine now.  But it sounds like you are fairly settled.  Anyway, just a thought.

About the neighbor and the curry.  Accept graciously and don't feel like you have to give something back unless you want to. You will find out soon enough if they have a hidden agenda but would you want to have anything to do with someone with a hidden agenda, esp as a ACON?  We know all too well about that.  Anyway, give/take in measured doses and see what happens.  

Cultural differences?  Yes, I know berry, berry well about that one.  Keep your healthy boundaries and and open mind and - who know - maybe the differences will turn into similarities.  I love it when that happens.

Meditate, if you can do it.  Takes a while to see results but helps feel less isolated.  Other things that work for me are singing, dancing, traveling (in the past) and twirling, yes...twirling.  Doing that alone in my flat now.  Want to have more confidence to do it elsewhere.  And everynight, before I fall asleep, I meditate on the thought that everyone, everywhere is able to fall asleep without fear.

Then, there is that song by the Beatles..."I am you and he is we and we are all together"....or something like that.  

my weird neighbor is back and playing his operas at deafening volume again and I can not concentrate so will close now.  He is moving out at the end of the month-   .  Emotional isolation is no picinic but being invaded by deafening opera music 24/7 at this point seems even worse.  I am definitely going to put that in my book of reminders!!!  And I LIKED opera music until he moved in.

Posting now.  If the post goes away again , I may just twirl myself right up to the ceiling.  

[Anonymous]

aha!  I am the one who responded with the one post above as *guest."  Because....erm, uh...I wasn't logged in.  I was so upset about all those posts disappearing into the ether that I made so many typos and wrote quickly.  sorry about that, Portia and Everyone.  

(Now I can't get that song, "I am the Walrus" out of my head.)

Dawning (now logged in.)

[lynn]

Hi portia,

I've been thinking about this post for a while and wanted to share my perspective on your neighbor and the curry chicken.

You also posted about existential issues.  It seemed as though there was a mild trend that indicated that children of N's delt with freedom as the biggest issue and spouses of N's delt with isolation as the biggest issue.

For me, when married to my N, it was difficult to have friends.  I NEVER wanted anyone to drop by, pop in, telephone to say hello.... it was too difficult because I could not anticipate my N's mood, reaction etc.  It was easier to always meet people somewhere else.... but occassionaly portia the intensity of the isolation which was my relationship overpowered me.  I needed human contact.  

I found that people who were independent type friends were best for my situation.  We did not visit each other's house.  We didn't call to check in with each other.  But we did care about each other.  And when I telephoned to see if my friend could walk with me or lunch with me, she generally said yes.  

I did all kinds of things, like curry chicken, for her.  I did not have expectations for something in return. Instead, I simply needed occassional human contact with a person who would talk with me and not judge me.  It was enough that my friend would take the time to eat chicken with me.  

Maybe your neighbor needs a friend like that.  Maybe it would be uncomfortable for her to have a more "traditional" friendship where you are more involved with each other's lives.  Maybe, your independence creates a perfect friendship.  

No strings attached,
lynn

[Anonymous]

Cultural differences?  Yes, I know berry, berry well about that one.  Keep your healthy boundaries and and open mind and - who know - maybe the differences will turn into similarities.  I love it when that happens.

When I was a young intrepid explorer and traveller this happened with the most unexpected people in even more unexpected surroundings. Yes, it can happen. Isn't that great?

CG

[kelly8893]

HI Guys! Not sure of the thread here but it seems that we all are coming to grips with being alone or not getting too close because we can't or won't trust people or have the people skills to know if people are being nice or otherwise? I have been struggling with such a thing myself. I came home crying yesterday and didn't even really know why.

I do have clues? I left an alcoholic husband of 17 years for a Major N for 8 years and I am on my own for the first time since leaving them and I am trusted out!!??!!!!??!!!!! I keep a small group of friends and have made friendly with my new group of people that I have now worked with for a month but any signs of doing much more than that is way out of the question!!!!!! I can't even trust myself to not be nice or too nice so I hold back and then that makes me alone or lonely or feeling socially inepted.

I have 2 wonderful children that I have been blessed with so we always have a good time and they make friends and have them over and do a really good job of entertaining but when it is "my" turn I just clam up.

My mother was a manic depressive skitso, I am not saying that to be mean or otherwise she really was and we never did anything let alone entertain. I went home from school and watched tv or played outside, you never want to make noise with people like my mother, they come unglued and then all H--- breaks loose. She was not shy about telling people her opinion about what she thought, even it it meant something so unbelieveable. So I have this big black hole of nothingness to show for my being "too nice" and keeping my distance so people don't see the hurt underneath the smile.  

I know now that I have this history and me being the oldest I got the roll of being the mother figure since mine was way out in her own little world. So I got the double whamy because I had to grow up real fast. I was making dinner by the time I was 10 and getting up to catch the bus as well by myself and getting my 2 siblings off as well. 10 years old and all grown up how sad and know wonder I made such a mess out of choosing such loser men!!!!!!

I hope in my next 40 years I get to grow up a little normal and make better choices but I am having a hard time doing that when I am trusted out and can't be too nice anymore.  Thanks for listening and always being there you guys are the best!!! Have a great weekend!
Kelly

[Nic]

Hi Portia,
Thanks for starting a new thread..i've come back after a few days of R and R..during this time I haven't access to the Internet and so it's communication delayed until today.
Didn't mean to leave you hanging, you and Rosencrantz..It appears you thought you (pl.) had misinterpreted what I wrote or could have..not so.  I think this is the one safe place I can be completely honest about everything..i feel surrounded by plenty of love, acceptance and support from you all but most especially RESPECT for my personhood.  Thank you..
First off, Rosencrantz:  IN response to what happened to the marriage?..very long story but not tragic by any means.  It seems that my life plan includes all kinds of experiences and situations which to me have always seemed unusual..it's hard to answer you without some beating around the bush..after all I'm am an INFJ..and it says i'm very private!   By answering you from the heart, I am bringing this introversion-to- a-fault out.   I realized last week while reading up on my personality type that this has absolutely to be answered in my quest for balance..here goes..
About a month ago, I connected to a very special human being.  It hit me like a ton of bricks, touched my heart, rang some very loud bells.  I met up with another "male" ( )..not in any particular context, not in a particular place but well within the context of my daily life and work.  I knew instantly there was something there..and there was.  Brains and sensitivity and brute honesty..( not to mention green-blue eyes and a body to kill!.. ..sorry just kidding and feeling giddy..like i'm 12!)

I had visited that world in my younger years,( against my will as a child!) and decided that "the culture" bothered me...mixed in were feelings of guilt and shame as always   ..I had lived this gay thing before and decided against it because of that..7 year relationship with someone before I waved goodbye to the shame and guilt.  In fact, I had written off all further relationships..until I met my best friend ( present wife) and decided companionship was what I wanted and therefore we married.

A marriage of emotional convenience based on strong Protestant ethics. You see I was born Catholic and raised Anglican.  I must have done alot of work in the past two years to come to this point in my life.  As much as I have/had made decisions to flee from shame and guilt, the latter became so intolerable that I decided to face those two little f*cks!  I obviously have come to the point where I have zero tolerance for the destructiveness of shame and guilt in my life.

Now, this doesn't mean I'm becoming some cheap, promiscuous floozie ( correct spelling? ) who doesn't give a damn..it simply means that I have to stop burrying myself in what guilt and shame make me do.  That would be: fear rejection and abandonment ( well trained in this too Dr.G!), giving to others and never to myself, expecting the worst when I could be working toward the best, catastrophizing, denying myself pleasure ( sexual and otherwise..) and just simply not thinking of myself as worthwhile...the list is long but i'm sure you get the point.  AND., the worst one being NOT BEING MYSELF!  I can't stand not being myself anymore on every level...I can't be 99% authentic anymore! I want the full 100%..I want to take the risk to know and be myself once and for all..I want to be FREEEEEEEEEEE!   Is that not what we all want for ourselves..oh wait : if we're true ACONs and voiceless we would want that for others first right?  

It's time to not only get myself a life, but to be a life.  I don't want to be the wood on the fire anymore, I want to be the flame that ignites it!

I am not into justifying my existance within the context of global discussions/trends/taboos.  Hence, it is not an expression of my sexual preference per se but rather a statement, honest and genuine and terribly vulnerable of ME.  Born that way, nurtured into it, I don't care how I happened, how and why I am the way I am..I don't want to know anymore, it just is and I am what I am..

No more secrets, no more silence.  I did tell my wife, because I couldn't have done it any other way..her response: I don't want you to hate yourself, ever!     My own parents never said that to me!  Well that reinforced our bond while loosening the grip, and the rest will be history.

In case you're thinking about how I would feel were it the other way around..well..been there and ..done that.  This is the first time in my life where I am not victimized.  Strangely, i'm the "persecutor" and even more strangely the literature seems to suggest that I should be that once in a while to resolve issues! Oi!

I hope this doesn't sound like an apology..i could go on for hours with this post.  Residual guilt and shame? yeah for sure..it's been a way of life for me.

This new relationship, remember in the other thread i referred to "him" as disturbed to a degree..f*ck, I"m disturbed to a degree!  I'm going with it because it's there and it's not cliche, and it feels good, but above all it feels meant! ( now that's cliche..sorry !) I'm just going down the river, My river..grabbing on to whatever happiness is passing..It's like my unknown ( to me..) self is inviting me, pleading with me to stop foregoing joy and peace.  I can't resist being " happy" anymore..I won't

Have you seen the movie " The Unsaid" ?  My life and the life of my partner has a lot to do with that movie.  It would help me if you all rented it and viewed it shortly...In it, the main character expresses the change he wants for his life with these words, which i've borrowed. I WANT TO BE FREE.  I need it, it's time.  

Hopefully Portia you'll see how this relates to your post.  I hope the above encourages you to grab and hold on to expressions of friendship and appreciation toward you, whether this be by neighbours, co workers etc.  If you weren't as wonderful as they think you are, trust me, they wouldn't bother with you.  It is possible to learn how to love ourselves.  So we're all a little late on that one..but it's never too late!  Portia, you're wonderful, thanks for your posts..and thanks for reading this long diatribe. It's from the heart..

Love Nic.

[Portia]

Dear all, I’m going to come back to this thread and talk to you all but I have to say right now (and I’m tempted to do it in bright lilac and yellow coloured capitals but I shall desist):

Nic!  (((((((((Nic))))))))) I am so damn happy for you!! Great big smile across my dopey face.  

Brains and sensitivity and brute honesty.

Why oh why are these men always gay for goodness sake???! I’m joking. But can I be envious? I’m envious!

A marriage of emotional convenience based on strong Protestant ethics. You see I was born Catholic and raised Anglican.
I have zero tolerance for the destructiveness of shame and guilt in my life.
Now, this doesn't mean I'm becoming some cheap, promiscuous floozie

I love the phrase ‘emotional convenience’. Don’t ask why – I’m working on it. But you’ve helped me. Also I wanted to quote the four sentences above and say look - this is Nic! Compare the top of the quote with the bottom – you’re amazing Nic – and your last sentence above made me guffaw.

To be a life

Simple but effective, this is a new-to-my-ears phrase that I just might hang onto, ok? I’ve probably heard it before but scoffed at it, Brenda-sixfeetunder-style, ‘yeah right’. Funny how these words take on new meaning when you can really hear them. Not just voiceless but hard of hearing too, I think. Would that be earless?

I hope this doesn't sound like an apology

Now just stop that right there! Your post is wonderful, no apologies there, none needed. It’s just honest. Breath-taking.

I can't resist being " happy" anymore..I won't

Fantastic! I love this!

It would help me if you all rented it and viewed it shortly

Nic, you’re joking right? What, or who, were you ‘channelling’ when you wrote this bit? Hey we love you, but we ain’t taking that love to the video store! Unless the film is really that great? Is it….? Or are you in your heart telling us to get it for ourselves? Ahh! Maybe it just reads funny.

And one from early in your post because it’s hilarious:

it's hard to answer you without some beating around the bush

I’m being very crude! (Does this cross cultures?) I’m sorry but I couldn’t resist, it’s too good.   Ha ha ha! Even funnier because you didn’t intend to pun! It’s very funny!   I laughed out loud *snort*. Oh aren’t I terrible?

Nic, thank you for your post. You brightened my whole day and I am so, so happy for you. How you’ve turned your life around! It’s like you’re shining!   And yes, it’s all so very relevant. Hope to hear more sometime about how it all goes…. Love, P

[Nic]

Hi Portia, thanks for your response...I thought I had written a terrific response using the "quote" function but when I pressed submit it came out all wrong...please pause now and consider explaining to me how this function works? i've been here a while and have been too embarrassed to ask and too dumb to figure it out by myself!

You can be envious for a while...then go find yourself that special someone..unless he's there right now and you haven't figured it out that is!
If you give me a nano second I can think of millions of superficial and shallow gay men who have none of the qualities I described in my post...surface "nice" does not equal deep " good".

So you like the term..Emotional Convenience (tm.nic) ...you can use it for a fee! hahahaha!  But think of all the things we do and don't do because they are not emotionally convenient..huh?  Sooner or later we have to deal with stuff..but patience with ourselves is a key...we can only deal with things when we're ready..when it's time..i've learned that! *wow*

" To be a life"  Well....the gay thing doesn't define me..it's one part of me.  Simply and effectively..good words to describe what I want my life to be.  No need to scoff anymore.  A time-out on things we don't understand is quite effective too..scoffing = scared I think.  I've done it too..and will no doubt do it again!  

I've been reflecting on how my Nparents got into my system.  By projecting their fears and doubts and guilt.  Their objective was not to love and nurture me but to do everything in their power to subordinate me to them.  I had to become completely unthreatening to them in order for them to live..yuck!  The ball and chain of the dysfunctional I guess?   I think i'm now completely ready to turn off the " you're no good" etc. recording after this insight!

And the perfection thing! I now know this was an N implant..I can feel it and know it's not mine.  I never wanted to be perfect..deep inside of me the thought never occurred actually...the more time i've spent trying to be perfect the less time i've had to enjoy life, my life.  What a horrible N thing to have done to me.  Strange paradox/contradiction, you live your life trying to be perfect while receiving the message that you're no good, none of the time by Nparents who are less perfect than what you're trying to be..oi!  Oh yeah! That's why I have no contact with them anymore!  Very therapeutic!

A propos, " beating around the bush"...is it Portia or Porcia! Oink OInk! Piggy Piggy!  We actually say this around here...OMG!  I don't believe you wrote that  

And about the movie...you're right and i'm rephrasing..It would please me if you saw it!  At your convenience..sheesh!

Thanks for your kind words, I love your style too!  You brightened my day just as much as I brightened yours I guess!   And that's GOOD!

Love Nic

[Anonymous]

Hey can we make this a threesome!   Guffaww Gufaww! ! Snort Snort! Nic, I loved your post!  Portia, I loved your post! Then Nic I loved your post reply. And now I think I wanna see the movie!  

CG (ESTJ Guest)