In a Nutshell

[gratitude28]

Here's my biggest setback quoted directly from Nina Brown:

"The common fantasy is that the parent is very much aware of the impact on you and is deliberately ignoring your anguish."

That sums it up for me. I believe I matter, when, in fact, I don't.

Howmany of you now accept this fully????

Love, Beth

[Ami]

I don't understand. Beth.  Could you explain it a little more?                                 Thank so much    Ami

[isittoolate]

I do not accept that FULLY!

"The common fantasy is that the parent is very much aware of the impact on you and is deliberately ignoring your anguish."

I am sure my parents had no idea what to say and do when it came to raising childrren. It was this lack --nothing deliberate---that invaded my inner self.

Izzy

[pennyplant]

I never really thought I mattered to my parents.  I knew on some level, at all times, that I was just a burden.  I always felt sorry for them having been "stuck" with me as their daughter.  It is good to know now that me not mattering had nothing to do with me, though.  It was their lacks and flaws.  Their inability to care for anybody else to the point of making sacrifices.

It's funny that it took me so long to realize that my mother favored my sister.  I really didn't understand that until recently.  Growing up, she was always in some kind of big trouble.  But maybe on some level she figured out that was the only way to get any kind of attention from them.  Otherwise, seen and not heard was our parents' preference.  Only in the last few years has it slipped out that my sister is my mother's favorite.  They seem to have more in common I suppose.  But I'm way beyond caring about that.  It means less work for me.  Less responsibility.  I was responsible for my father until he died.  That was enough for me.  At least he appreciated it by the end. 

It's different for everybody, Beth.  I think I would be more "normal" if I so very much wanted my mother to "see" me and care for me.  I am becoming perhaps a little too distant in that respect.  It sounds very painful for you to want so much for your mother to care.  But I think most people want that.  I don't know what kind of person I'm becoming to not want that--you know what I mean?

Pennyplant

[gratitude28]

Wow, I took that phrase out and put it on its own and I see it is hard to understand on its own...
To paraphrase, we continue to have the belief that our parent(s) actually give a rat's ass about us, but are pretending they don't and are being mean to us on purpose...
As always, PP is right on target with understanding.
I always think my mother thinks through how she is behaving towards me (the fantasy). In reality, you just don't matter that much. I need to start from that common ground - realizing she isn't punishing me. It's a weird thing to want someone to care about you - even if it is in a mean way.
Love you all,
Beth

[isittoolate]

well I can believe it fully.................................. but they did feed and clothe us and provided beds

Izzy

[sally]

Dear Beth,

What a wonderful topic!  Thankyou.

I agree with all of you:  In many ways, NPs were (are) ignorant and they made bad choices when raising us.

Izzy: I agree our NPs didn't know what  to say/do, but, perhaps there was a degree of deliberateness in their ignorance, unless they were just so unaware that their ignorance canceled out the deliberateness.  Hey!  wrap your mind around that one!!

Pennyplant:
I knew on some level, at all times, that I was just a burden.   Me too. 

It is good to know now that me not mattering had nothing to do with me, though.  It was their lacks and flaws.  Amen!

(((((((((((((((((Pennyplant))))))))))))))))  So sorry to hear about mom favoring sister.  It's disgusting.

It's different for everybody, Beth  Agreed.  Each family is different, so we each have different wounds, but we all hurt. 

I don't know what kind of person I'm becoming to not want that--you know what I mean?  Pennyplant, I think this is very healthy.  If you know there;s nothing to drink, why torture yourself by being thirsty?  You are your own separate person with your own separate life.  You are out of the FOO, so you do not need the Foo to sustain you.  Good for you!!

Penny, I hope one day I can be like you and kind of stop caring, wondering, stop trying to fathom and figure out my NPs.

Beth, please keep discussing this book.  It's very powerful.  I almost said "I hope you 'enjoy' the book", but we can't enjoy these types of books: they're devastating,painful  and draining.

Love,
sally

[Hopalong]

But fantasy...is fantasy. Fiction, not reality.
So if she says it is a common fantasy that it's intentional cruelty, then she's saying it's not accurate...the cruelty is not intentional.

Hops

[gratitude28]

Yep, Hops, that is it. I understand it. It is all in my mind when I think like that. I am perceiving that I matter, when in fact I don't unless she is bored or someone asks why she hasn't talked to me in a long time

I was thinking about all this last night and I think although I am pulling out the stuff about my parents, I am most upset with myself right now for having trusted my sister again and left myself open to being slammed by her again. Again, my doing, my fault.

All in all, I am feeling much better. Sally, you are right to have pointed out PP's words that our families are all different (remember Tolstoy's words in Anna Karenina, that unhappy families differ, but happy families are all the same??? What in the world did he mean by that????).

I am "enjoying" the book lol - more than anything because I can see how much I have changed for the POSITIVE. This is really my last issue that I am working through. Not small - and I am not saying I am done with the others... but I am a work in progress and have made some ground in most of the other areas.

Love you all. A half an hour 'til we hit the road. ARRGGGHHH

Love, Beth

[Gaining Strength]

A variation on this theme is that I believed that my parents wanted the best for me.  Isn't that what parents want?  Unfortunately that is not so with Ns.  My mother was jealous of me in some sense and both of my parents wanted to control me rather than see me flourish.  It is still very difficult for me to come to terms with though my wellbeing demands that I do.

The criticism that never ended, the judgement and condemnation were meant to crush me and they did but not completely.  I finally see the way out - to set a course and stick to it, undeteredly.  The criticism and condemnation set up a reaction of chronic anxiety and fear.  That is what I have fought against for so long.

Thanks for this thread.

[motheroffour]

For so many years I have battled the question of how much my parents "knew".  How much of it was intentional?  How much of was their blindness as inexperienced parents or blinded because of their own painful histories.  I used to be so angry. You know?  Rivers of anger about what was happening and trying to make sense about why.  Wanting so badly for them to realize the devistating impact on me.  Screaming for someone to hear my cry and make it stop.  Feeling so angry about the emotional handicaps......for the pain that refused to heal.   And then one day I realized that I had to stop.  For me, I had to lay the questions down.  Guess for my own peace.  I had to lay this thing to rest and give it to God.

--mof4

[sally]

Dear Mof4,

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I still mull over the past and wonder what they knew and didn;t know, sometimes (often times) this type of thinking leaves me frustrated and drained. 

WHO THE HECK KNOWS WHAT THEY KNEW/DIDN'T KNOW?????????  I WILL NEVER REALLY KNOW WHAT THOUGHTS WERE GOING THRU THEIR MINDS. 

So, sometimes, I just say "to heck with it", I will live MY LIFE now, here, today and to heck with them.

Love,
sally

[motheroffour]

I think sometimes in the past I have tried too hard to make sense of the past.  Wasted precious time trying sort things will not be sorted. At least in this area, I think that I have acceptance. I must say, it feels really good.

Hey, sally!  Don't think we have met?  Good to know you.

--Mof4

[sally]

Hi Mof4,

Nice to meet you.

I think sometimes in the past I have tried too hard to make sense of the past.  Wasted precious time trying sort things will not be sorted. At least in this area, I think that I have acceptance. I must say, it feels really good.

You and I are on the same page!!

Love,
sally

[motheroffour]

This may be redundant, if so forgive me.  But i heard this story recently.  It is about two Monks standing at one side of a river.  One old and wise, the other younger and less experienced.  A woman wearing wealthy clothing yelled for help to cross the river so her precious clothes would not become wet.  The older monk went to help and carried the woman across the river all the time enduring her cursing and complaining.  After the river was crossed, the woman continued her complaints and left.  The older monk quietly went back to his work.  After a time the younger monk questioned why he had allowed her poor treatment and why he had not become upset by it. How could he tolerate such ingratitude? The older monk said, "I put down that woman a long time ago.  Why haven't you?"

--mof4