Is there a point I do not get?

[Lupita]

Ouch!!!!!!!!!! I do not want to fight. She will win. I am 2000 miles away from my mother because of that same reason. I cannot keep running. I have moved many times in my life because of this kind of people. I do not have properties, I have spent all my life starting in a new life in a new place because of territorial people i cannot stand up for my slef.
I am terrified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you expand more about your neighbor to see if we can find more similarities?

[Lupita]

Not only that, my son had to suffer our constant moving.
I worked six years there and six years here and six over the other, always running from territorial people.
I do not want to move again unless I get the job of my dreams. For that job I go wherever, but it is only that. Otherwise I donot want to move. I know that I am always the one that leaves.

I need help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pennyplant you just hit a very very painful nail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lupita]

I cannot run again. Not after my dance lessons, book club, I just started enjoying life. And I was just thinking on leaving the book club. I cannot do that. I need to stand for my self.

Please help me.

Help me God.

[pennyplant]

Lupita, I am actually planning to move to get away from my neighbor.  It will take quite a while because we are not very good with money, have moved often, and our house is not in such great shape.  So, it will take a couple of years at least.

I know the idea of moving is terrible.  But she is not the sole reason I want to move.

But as for her.  I knew right off that these were people I did not want to get close to.  I have spent a lifetime being "friends" with overbearing people who didn't allow me to exist.  I have had some some good friends too.  But have far too often been trapped by these soul-suckers.

The very first time I met them, we were in the grocery store and my husband recognized them as he met them already.  I didn't know them at all.  They both started barraging us with every little detail of their moving in horror stories and personal details.  We could barely get a word in edgewise.  At that time, I knew it would be stressful to be friends with them, but since they "seemed" to "like" us, I assumed we would be friends.  I just knew I would have to set some kind of limits.

Little did I know then that they are incapable of limits.  It is all about them all the time.

She gets very fixated on having things be a certain way, her way.  There were trees all along our property lines.  She was fixated on having them removed.  We liked them as they gave shade and some privacy.  But most of the trees were not ours.  She could have her way.  They kept asking us about them.  I kept saying, well, they are yours, you can do what you want.  I should have been honest.  It wouldn't have mattered as far as keeping the trees, they were doomed from the get-go.  But at least they would not have had the impression that we could be pushed around.  She got the power company to cut them down for free.  Then her husband went about cutting down all the rest of the trees including our trees and some over-grown bushes.  Every day I would come home from work and the husband would proudly show me which tree he had cut down "for" us.  I did not react and should have.  I should have yelled at him, "What are you doing cutting down our trees?  It is bad enough you cut down all of yours!  Leave my property alone!"  But I was being practical.  The trees were gone by the time I was "consulted".  So, I said, "Well, I guess that tree would have looked kind of stupid growing there all by itself."

These are people who cannot or will not read subtle signs from us.  They don't care about us.  Once the trees were gone, the wife would stand in her driveway and stare at our house for hours.  Watering the grass.  My son felt uncomfortable--it seemed very much like she was looking in our windows.  I would have thought I was being paranoid, but my son noticed it too and mentioned it to me.  We got better curtains and glass block windows for the basement.  Then I think she realized we were noticing and she stopped doing that.

My garden was too messy for her and I came home from work one day to find she had raked it out "for me".

Lupita, this is a really sore subject for me too.  I know these examples sound ridiculous and petty.  There is far more I could tell.  CB is right.  When something like this is happening both people are triggering each other.  I would rather work on my issues at my own pace.  I don't need to continually expose myself to this.  It is not healthy.

My neighbor and I will never be friends and I don't want to be.  Never did from the moment we first met.  I knew that much right then!  I am using this as a learning experience.  But I doubt very much that she is doing any kind of soul-searching or trying to change her life and her ways.  She won't even try to be polite or acknowledge my existence.  From raking my garden and staring into my windows for all those months to not even saying hello when I greet her in the store--whatever her issues are, I don't want any part of it.

The husband told my husband recently that they are thinking of putting an addition on their house.  They have invested every effort into turning the house into some kind of show piece.  They are not moving away anytime soon!!!  This I know.  So, it will be us who leaves.  Now to get through the next two or three awkward years.  Their entry way and ours face each other.  Our driveways are ten feet apart.  They spend many hours a day in their driveway.  It is very, very awkward for me.  I think it is not natural to have that much exposure to each other's neighbors.  I have actually paid attention to how neighbors usually set up the common spaces and property lines.  The vast majority of the time, entry ways do not face each other.  When they do, there is usually a privacy hedge.  Drive around and look--you will notice the same thing.  People need neutral space even if they like their neighbors.  These neighbors of ours are just the opposite.

Oh, I have to stop now.  I hope this gives you the idea of what I'm talking about.  I hope it helps in some way.

The thing is, my situation is constant and it is taking place in my home.  Your book club is neutral and it is not all the time.  It may be the perfect situation for you to learn not to run.  I have too many learning situations going on all the time.  I need my home to be my refuge.  I never realized before how much of a refuge it is for me from the difficulties of work.  So, there are many reasons I feel it is time for us to move.  We will stay in the same community so it will not be a complete starting over.

Pennyplant

[Certain Hope]

((((((((((Pennyplant))))))))))  I do think that would drive me mad!!  Your description of these neighbors gives me chills. I am so sorry you've had to deal with them... talk about oblivious!  If somebody cut down a tree on my property, I cannot imagine remaining calm. It's as though these people have annexed you!  Good grief - watch out for their addition... it may include a connecting tunnel or catwalk to your house!     I'd be checkin out the possibilities for a very tall privacy fence, complete with barbed wire...  may increase your property value immensely as the next residents will have to deal with these jokers, too! Yikes. Best wishes!

Love,
Hope

[Lupita]

Dear Penny, your problem does not sound like mine. Your problem sounds scary. Those neighbors are creepy. Yes, you need to move. I agree with you.
I am so sorry. It seems like you have my problem. We allowe the problem to escalate because we do not stop it from the beginning.
I am so astonished with your story that I do not even know what to tell you. But here there are so many wise people. They will say something to helpful.

I will be praying with you. And we need to change. We need to set boundaries from the beginning.

At this moment the only idea I have is "I will think about it and get back to you". That sounds just terrific. Because it is not offensive and it is a perfect reason.

The problem is when people are too aggressive and waiting there expectant, and then I get paralyzed and say yes, whatever you want. Then ,same old, same old.

[Certain Hope]

I cannot run again. Not after my dance lessons, book club, I just started enjoying life. And I was just thinking on leaving the book club. I cannot do that. I need to stand for my self.

Please help me.

Help me God.

I am amen-ing this with you, Lupita.

Reading through what you've expressed here, I recognized myself.
So often I've felt driven to disappear from the company of others by one or more folks who seem so strong, so "in the loop", so loud and outspoken and full of whatever it is that the group seems to desire.
But the keywords in that last sentence are "felt" and "seem", now that I think on it...  and I think that alot of this is merely an illusion.
There's no doubt in my mind that there are other folks in any group or club who are like you, or like me... 
we're just not likely to recognize them as quickly, perhaps, because they, too, may be getting swamped by the more "in your face" sorts.

There seems to be an element of competition under the surface in these settings...  something that we set up in our minds to be an all or nothing situation, so right from the beginning - from the introduction of this personality type into a group - we feel as though we've lost?
Just thinking aloud here, Lupita, but I'm seeing more and more that it may be a secret desire to be more like that other person which makes us feel like running, because we feel hopeless of ever gaining that? Not necessarily to be noisy and controlling or whatever, but to have that apparent "power".
But I'm thinking that as we resist that urge to run and disappear, we'll find others in the group who will find a sense of solace and companionship with us?
I'm sure they are there... just maybe feeling alot like you are at the moment. So I think it's important not to set this "face" person up as the enemy, but just continue to exert your own presence within the group, just as you are now - not thinking that you have to change a thing to be an important part of the group where you've been a valued contributor and participant till now?  That's alot of question marks, but I hope it helps some.   I know that I'd like to have you in the book club where I was a member!

Love,
Hope

[motheroffour]

CH, Thanks for your insite on this. I struggle so much in groups.  "Disappearing from the company of others....."  as you said.
I appreciate your perspectives.

--mof4

[Lupita]

I am going to do right now exactly what I hate, going around witching about the same thing over and over.
Last book meeting, I asked my friend if she was going to buy the book. I thought she would answer, "I do not know" or "I am thinking about it" or just any kind of respectful answer.
But she answer "WHY?" And I was astonished at the disrespect, if she did not want give me infoermation, she could just say something like I am thinking, I do not know, but not just say WHY? So, I was so upset that I did not say anything and I walked away.
I hate this woman, I do not want to be with her anymore. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Certain Hope]

I am going to do right now exactly what I hate, going around witching about the same thing over and over.
Last book meeting, I asked my friend if she was going to buy the book. I thought she would answer, "I do not know" or "I am thinking about it" or just any kind of respectful answer.
But she answer "WHY?" And I was astonished at the disrespect, if she did not want give me infoermation, she could just say something like I am thinking, I do not know, but not just say WHY? So, I was so upset that I did not say anything and I walked away.
I hate this woman, I do not want to be with her anymore. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Lupita,

I really do not think this is going around witching about the same thing over and over... cuz if it is, then I am in trouble - lol. How about we call it "getting it out of our system"?   

I don't know why she answered you that way, but I can imagine myself saying, "I'm not sure. Why?"  The reason I might say that is because I can picture myself wondering whether or not you thought I was under some obligation to buy the book because I'd come to the meeting.  But that is just the way my goofy mind works. In fact, I respond to my husband like that often, come to think of it... I'll answer but then ask him "why"... because I'm curious to see what was on his mind when he asked and what his opinion may be. Not sure that makes sense... mostly wanted to say, I hope you'll just keep on talkin till you don't feel like it anymore!

With love,
Hope

[sally]

I hate this woman, I do not want to be with her anymore. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Lupita,

If you don't want to be with her, then just don't.  Life is tooooo short to spend time with people we don't like.

I think it's wonderful you're working on boundaries:  boundaries are life savers!  I think you will feel happier once you enforce your boundaries.

For example, when she answered you "Why?" in a snotty way, you could have enforced your boundaries by expressing your true feelings in a nice way by saying: "Linda, is anything wrong?  I detected some anger in your voice."  This way, you are expressing your displeasure at her snotty answer and asking her to explain why she seems upset.

Love,
Sally

[Ami]

Dear Penny,
  One thing that really hit me was that if you had trusted your first instinct about your neighbors,you might have been able to avoid some of the  pain. Perhaps ,nothing would have helped. However, it is interesting that you 'knew" right away  about them.
    Our instincts try to warn us of trouble,but we don't trust ourselves.Penny, I am so sorry that you have this nightmare  .It sounds really,really difficult((((((((Penny)))))))))))                                               Love   Ami
 
   

[pennyplant]

Thanks folks for your supportive answers to my neighborly problem.  It has been a difficult problem for me.  For once in my life, I recognized a brewing situation right in the beginning.  But I didn't know what to do about it.  Then, as I have been learning about boundaries and dealing with problem people at work, I haven't really been able to apply the lessons with these people because--I don't like them!!!  I don't want to be friends with them! 

I have worried a lot about why this has happened.  We have moved a lot over the years and have had many neighbors.  Never has something like this taken place before.  Not that we have always been friends with our neighbors... but never have I felt so uncomfortable in my own driveway because of the people next door.  It has made me second-guess myself all the time.

One thing that made me feel better was when the husband told my husband that they moved him to a different department at his job (one of about four jobs he has had in three years) because, the boss told him, he "just wasn't fitting in around here."  That blew my mind.  I have worked in many jobs with many kinds of problems and never has a boss had to resort to actually separating a particular employee from the rest.  And this guy told my husband this story like it was just a story about the weather. 

I suppose it is no accident that these particular people came into our lives at this particular time.  But I'm sure ready to be done with this lesson.

Pennyplant

[lighter]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....


Saying NO to the icky people, is just as important as saying YES to the nice people.

If you keep your life filled with icky people, there isn't any room for better things.

Of course, the icky people seek nice, easy going, introverted people out bc we're easy to get along with, put up with them when no one else will and bend over backwards to make things flow smoothly where other's wouldn't consider hanging around for a minute. 

What can I say?  Start really observing your environment and preparing for assualts on your time and energy.  Expect it because it always comes.  Say NO to it and be ready to say YES when something worthwhile comes along. 

Pretend until you figure it out.  It'll come; )

[motheroffour]

Lighter,

Love it!!