intellectual vs. emotional responses

[Guest101]

well, speaking strictly from my heart -- many here already know my story.

very well.

but when I was the most hurting and vulnerable instead of receiving love and support I was attacked.

and it was a very painful, terrible experience.

traumatizing.

I learned and grew from it by the grace of God.

I saw a little bit of that behavior on the thread I mentioned, so I wanted to point it out, hoping that new comers here might be spared the horror I was went through.

  but that for me is my family script -- always trying to fix and make things better, no matter how hopeless it may seem or fruitless it may be.



what I've learned is that some people as Ami so greatly described feel more comfortable talking about facts than they do feelings but  since I am trying so hard to feel my feelings, those people are not safe for me to talk to.

when I talk to those people they may feel they're helping but they are really hurting me.  some people can hear about another's pain and respond but some just hear "you're wrong" and attack.   I think RMs a,b,c for posting hear are great to help avoid those situations.  but for some it is necessary to go through those situations, to heal.  only God knows.

I knew that some people here could hear what I had to say with an open heart and respond lovingly, so I put it out there.

it worked.

for some.

for others -- it's not time or they're not ready or I don't know.  I'm not an expert or a therapist.

but I'll say this.  my heart and intentions are in the right place and I have absolutely zero interest in fighting, arguing, justifying or moutning a case.

you see, i trust myself.

[Certain Hope]

There's something about this thread that's just not settling with me on any level - intellectually, emotionally, or spiritually.

Lighter has pointed out some of the "intellectual" discrepancies.

Along with those, what I'm sensing is this -

I feel like people who are more emotional are being automatically assigned a higher value than those who may relate on a more intellectual basis, as though the emotional ones are deemed weaker and therefore more in need of understanding and indulgence...
as though those who respond from the intellect are somehow more responsible for themselves (and for others!!) than those who allow emotions to flow freely.

And yet, I also sense an underlying assumption that those who respond from the intellect are somehow more severely incapacitated and less "healed" than those who allow emotions to flow freely. My sense of it is that the emotionally oriented person is presumed to be superior because he/she is more "in touch".


Personally, I'm having trouble getting these undercurrents which I'm sensing to jive, but the message which comes across to me is this:
"If you relate more from your mind, then you need to change because that's not helpful to me and you should know that!"

I comment on my own perceptions here because of my recollections that  NPD-ex could be extremely emotional -
 but only about his own feelings.
He was also an expert at "do as I say, not as I do."

I'd just like to point out that the ability to respond in a practical, thoughtful manner does not necessarily indicate that a poster is unemotional.
It may mean that he/she chooses to not allow those emotions to run rampant.
It may also have far less to do with his/her own capacity to "feel" than it relates to a history of being deluged with N's self-centered, self-absorbed flood of "emotion" which is so often used as a tool to distract from the genuine issues at hand.

If this is a thread about what might be helpful to the board in general, my suggestion is that everyone keep in mind the fact that there's not an individual here who hasn't in some way been run roughshod over by the N's of this world. We're all dealing with the same consequences, each in our own way.

With love,
Hope

[Hopalong]

Gosh, Guest, that explains your opacity.
I'm very sorry you had a hard time here.

I hope you'll be able to work it through openly.
Or at least that you've come back because you've also found supportiveness.

Ditto to Hope: those N-surviving consequences come out in everybody in different ways.

Glad you're here and I hope you have a good experience now.

Hops

[bigalspal]

Hi,
I don't know WHAT the h##l is going on here, but this is not the safe, loving community I thought is was. Some people just seems to live & breathe for this crap! "I AM RIGHT!" "NO, I"M RIGHT!".
God help me, I'm falling into it, too. I'm SICK & HURTING, people!
I'm a newbie. I'm haven't been here for years. I need you to go back & remember what it felt like to be in my shoes. I need you to STOP thinking like this community is a Jr high school classroom.
This person is the WISE one. This person is the EMOTIONAL one. This person is the longterm GURU.
I've got to stick with this one. What does this newbie know?? *SNIFF SNIFF* (nose up in the air).
This newbie knows this is not good. This is not safe & loving anymore.
This is not a place to come for support. This place has become a clique! I wasn't in one in high school, & I HURT from that. I don't want to choose sides. I want to be excepted by ALL of you.
Some old timers jump to the defense of their friends that have been here for years & excuse away & try to explain away hurting behavior. Then they turn around & say the same things to the newbie! It confusing! That leaves (I'll speak for ME) the newbie out in the cold.
Someone needs to get this back under control. I can't do it, I don't have the tools. I don't want to anyway.
Everyone talks about ideas to make this place better. OK, I have one. How about A "Newbie Corner" where we newbies that are in a different place, can come and BE in that place without fear of posting the wrong thing. I can't stand this arguing back & forth. I guess you are saying, "Well, LEAVE, then!" I don't WANT to leave. I was so excited to find this place that I just started to melt. Melting away all the hurt & frustration & misinformation that was holding me back.
All I wanted from this board was a listening ear & a new friend. And I wanted to listen, too.
Yes, we DO need oldtimers to give us support & move us forth in our healing, but we need it without all this ENDLESS he said, she said bullcrap!
Don't lecture me. LISTEN to me. If a need a lecture, I have my NMother's phone number.
Bigalspal  

[sally]

Dear BG Pal,

I did not follow Overcomer's thread, so I did not read about the abortion issue, but let me say how much I feel for you ((((((((((((((((((((BGPal)))))))))))))))))))))).  Wow, your issue is huge and from what I've read, it's hung over you like a dark shadow your entire life.  I'm so glad you're giving it light.  Please feel free to explore it, yell it, scream it, do whatever you want to do.  It goes to the essence of your life and your being.

BGPal, I wanted to tell you that your post is GOLD:  Yes, this whole junior high thing, picking on people, Newbies sometimes having to "prove" themselves thru a trial of fire and woe is the newbie who screws up:  Then, no one will pick that newbie for their kickball team or sit with them at lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!  LORD:  Do we ever grow up??????????

One thing I'm learning about voicelessness:  I will post whatever I want to post and I as long as I never have the intent to hurt another poster, I will not care whatever anyone else says.

I suppose what I didn't like about the way this thread was going is that a junior high mob seemed to be dumping on someone who actually was making a good point.  OK, maybe that person screwed up by saying one thing and doing the other, but maybe they weren't aware of it.  So, instead of dumping on an unproven newbie with a shacky track record, can we try to gently and with compassion  point out that person's blind spot?  I think we are all kind of blind (and voiceless), otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Anyway, sorry you became so embroiled in the dispute, BGpal.  You did not cause it.  I hope you feel safer.

With love,
sally

[lighter]

I'm so sorry this is so upsetting for you (((Pal)))  


Honestly, I lurked here for a good long time before I ever posted because there was strife on the board.

I was just too broken and overwhelmed to deal with the terrible anxiety of figuring out who was who and who was right and who was the trusty guru I couldn't afford to upset by posting nice to someone transient and likely to leave.   (((BAP)))  I'm used to really bad board dynamics and this just isn't the same as a debate board, for instance.  

I remember thinking that all the posters names ran together here.... I couldn't begin to tell anyone apart...... I just knew that my heart was pounding and I needed someone to hear me but I was too afraid to post.  I NEEDED ANSWERS AND INFORMATION!

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and for all I know it's the same struggle that was going on when I was a lost broken newbie wondering what the hell was going on.

All I can say is..... if Guest comes back that misunderstandings can be talked through.  This is support board.  You can start a thread and request JUST support when you're feeling particularly vulnerable.  That's one thing I got from Guest's post and it makes sense to me!  

I don't understand exactly what's going on here either ((((Sweetie))))  What I do know is.... that this is a place where people come when they're in pain and sometimes we do step on someone's toes.  So far, I've managed to work through the misunderstandings I've been in the middle of.  ::Knock on wood::

I think there should be some rules to help us feel safer.

1)  Share when you're feeling vulnerable so people CAN respond with definite support in a mindful manner..... when you're really in need..... or choose to gently sidestep your post if they can't.  We all have struggles and go in and out of being OK so we sometimes have to sidestep or step up to the plate if we hurt someone and work through it.

2)  Ask for C L A R I F I C A T I O N  before jumping to conclusions.  It may very well be that you deserve to be upset at another poster or two.  But make sure what their intentions were before you assume and give them a chance to take something back or explain what happened.  Sometimes they were just in a hurry and posted quickly without proofing their post.  It happens.  It happened to me with Izzy and boy...... she used it as an opportunity to practice asserting herself and boy did she!  We both learned from working our problem through.  It was a misunderstanding.

Sometimes we do get triggered and that just can't be helped.  There are also social/board dynamics that are just a part of life in every group we enter.  Sorry, I can't do much about that and I have certain posters that make me feel safe and posters that don't.  Consider the source in every circumstance when gaining information.

USE this board and get comfortable communicating within this relatively safe framework of survivors.  Any dispute is very upsetting for me too.  I'm so sorry I'm a part of this one but.... I really felt a tug at Guest's wrist slapping for something she herself seemingly did and it made no sense.  I wasn't angry but I did need some clarification and I tried to use humor.  Hostility is very upsetting for me. ::nodding::  

I like things to make sense.  

I like to know why.  

I like to be treated fairly and not be asked to doubt my reality.  (((BAP)))

 

[Ami]

I think what the real point of this thread is that there are some mean people here who are hurting people b/c they are being mean-- that is it. I tried to say that it was b/c they were blocked. It is b/c they are mean. Hope, you always have wise kind things to say. Most people here do. However , there are others who are just mean
   This is what is going on. Tho other stuff is just words.
   The great majority of people on here are trying to help.--- 99%. However, there is that small other percentage  There are a few people here who that like to snipe people.' It drives new people away. However, this is how life is, I guess.I guess that there is really no totally safe place.This is probably part of the healing. We want to find a place where we can be safe and not be hurt. I don't think that it exists. We will always have to protect ourselves, I think.
   God will always send us people to reach out and help--- in the midst of it all . This is my opinion and my impression             Love  Ami

 

[lighter]

but when I was the most hurting and vulnerable instead of receiving love and support I was attacked.

and it was a very painful, terrible experience.

traumatizing.

I'm sorry that you feel that way Guest.  I hope you can come back and work it out.... that we all can learn from it.  ((Guest))

[dandylife]

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I have been doing some research on mental illness.  My friend, Heidi Anfinson, is in jail for killing her newborn son, but I am convinced it was post partum depression.  She is in jail but I think a lot of us live in our own jail.  We have been bullied, manipulated, abused by N and we snapped.  I purpose over the years some people like us have snapped to the point of murder.  Maybe Bundy had an N mom but rather than being like us, he snapped.  Or Jeffrey Dahmer?  I wonder if cause victims 
 
 Report to moderator    Logged 

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Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........"
 
 
Overcomer
Hero Member

Posts: 986


    Re: Are we mentally ill?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 10:02:51 AM »   

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actually have chemicals in their brain change after so much abuse and brainwashing?  Could that be why we know in our heart what we need to do to get better but we just cannot seem to wra our minds around it?
 
 

[dandylife]

sorry, I was going to make a comment and pushed the button too soon.

I posted Overcomer's original thought above (below - whatever).

In looking at this with "new eyes", I can see that her opening statement probably triggered some people on the board who have struggled or dealt with mental illness - depression, bipolar, etc.

What was she studying? To what ends? Only in relation to her friend? Why the comment about "studying about mental illness?"

It's really not clear.

In the human brain, when something is not clear, it's normal for the brain to fill in the blanks.

The only way to do that is through our own filters.

Since we are all individuals with our own life stories, filters, values, etc., we all fill in the blanks differently.

Her post spoke to me in a different way than it may have spoken to others.

My brain is thirsty for facts.

So, I researched the story to find out what I could, and then I posted a response.

Others may have posted emotional hair trigger responses. Others may have posted other kinds of very well-thought-out responses.

Fact is, we're all different.

That's the beauty of this place.

That should be celebrated.

Some posts will be helpful. Some will be completely off.

We need to be discerning enough for ourselves to take what is helpful.

Especially if we don't ask for something specific.

If I post, I usually state what I'm struggling with, then I ask for a specific response. Thoughts, opinions, anyone experienced this?

Sometimes a post is simply to give helpful information to others.

There is a board moderator who can step in if there are inappropriate posts. That happens very infrequently.

I think to ask posters to post in a certain way is creating an atmosphere built on control and a BPD-esque "you should know what I'm thinking".

Celebrate differences, celebrate opionions.

This is what we live for as humans who relate to each other as communicators.

When someone floats a thought on the board, it's asking, pleading for other thoughts to be shared.

That's exactly why we're here, right?

Dandylife

[Certain Hope]

Dandylife,

Just wanted you to know that your post helped me alot... thanks!

As somebody who's just coming to recognize that it's okay to even have needs, I post without a preset notion of what may be the "correct" response. I also understand that everyone's different, and so I feel that the responsibility is mine - to sift through the replies I get, spitting out the sticks.

The "you should know what I'm thinking" approach is what sets off warning bells for me. NPD ex used that one with gusto. Knowing that my upbringing had left me with very little emotional strength and courage, he took advantage to blame every misunderstanding or disagreement on my lack of concern for his "feelings". If I cared about his "feelings", I wouldn't suggest that he was being a selfish jerk, that what he was saying made no sense whatsoever, that he lied through his teeth and it was always somebody else's fault, that maybe, just maybe, he was occasionally w r o n g.

That is the rest of my emotional response to this thread. Thank you for bringing it further into the light so that now I CAN celebrate the differences and opinions and not take offense when somebody doesn't "get" me.

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

What I found when I joined this board, way back when, was that people really were becoming offended that I was talking about my situation.  I was told to just "Let it go" by some folks and others just out and out told me to stop talking about it and let the healing process begin.  One person even tried to make me feel that X was justified in how she treated me.

I'm sorry that happened to you ReallyME.  I haven't had that experience but.... I sometimes get the feeling someone would LIKE to say it me, lol.  I've really enjoyed your posts  and am so glad you stayed: )  

[dandylife]

And, by the way I'd like to applaud Overcomer as she exhibited the most elegant and accepting attitude toward ALL the posters in that thread.

(((((Hands clapping)))))))

((((((Overcomer))))))))

Thanks - it was SO pleasant to see how gracious you were to everyone.

Dandylife

[bigalspal]

Hi,
Dandylife, I need to address some issues with you in a kind, considerate manner.
You talk about being careful & ask for what you want when you post. Forgive me Dandylife, but when tears of rage, hurt, & fear are streaming down your face, it's HARD to know WHAT you want. That's how I was just a few short weeks ago when I found this board.
I was just trying to hold my a## on! I don't think it's fair nor reasonable to ask a newbie like me, who has held this stuff in for so long, to know how to post, or what to ask for.
As far as the intelluctual responses, I don't care if you spometimes give one of those responses! That's not the problem. I LIKE to discuss things like that. It's HOW you do it. People, just be KIND. Even if you are more "thinking" than "feeling". Don't tell me I don't have a right to my pain because it's out of pure, raw emotion & doesn't make sense. OF COURSE I DON'T MAKE SENSE! I'm just a few days into my journey!  I'm OBVIOUSLY a more emotional person. Fine! Someone said on an earlier post, that they felt they were being pick on (so to speak) because they are more intellecual. I felt the opposite from the people who rallied around the poster that hurt me, so we ALL have a different point of veiw.
And as for CH's or OC or anyone eles's wonderful & dignified way of handling this situation, well hat's off to 'em!! Sorry I can't react the same way. I might've could be there by now, if I hadn't just started my journey & was attacked for asking a question. That knda set me back!     
You know, all this has just made me sick. I went and took a 3 hr nap after I posted my "rant", so maybe it was good for something.
I DO like the idea of a "Newbie's Corner". I need to be separated from the proverbial lions when I need to vent.
Someone else said maybe the abortion hurt should be started as a different thread. I agree, but not sure I'm up for it. That's what I realized I should've done when I was attacked, but I honestly didn't realize that's the way this forum worked & got excited with a thought from a post in THAT thread. Now, by golly, I KNOW!
I gonna try this one more time. And if you have something to say to me, please say it to me. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but sometimes I feel instead of responding to my post, a poster will address it in ANOTHER post to someone else. I:E: Oh, you've handle this in such a mature way"
If I freak you out with my emotions, tell ME, ok. Nobody will ever admit to doing that, so I don't know WHY I even brought it up.
Thanks to Sally & the ones that are just chiming in. It is awful, but I really do want to be here.
Bigalspal

[bigalspal]

I want to add to that last "rant" that if I've mixed up WHO POSTED WHAT & gotten the NAMES of the posters wrong, I appologize.
I didn't mean to do that. It's hard for me to keep up.
Bigalspal