intellectual vs. emotional responses

[lighter]

oh, I also had to learn to read between the lies. 

I had to learn to watch what people were actually doing and stop paying attention to what they say they were doing.

Amen to listening to what people DO, and nopt what they SAY.

[reallyME]

Ami,

That was a good description of this board...like a video game.  The other thing I'd like to add on, if I may, is that we need to keep in mind the nature of this board.  ANYONE and I mean ANYONE can find this place.  It is on the world wide web...even the comments we speak on here can be read by browsing.

Therefore, the dysfunctional people in our life, may even have found this board and be posting to us in hidden names.

I happen to almost KNOW that X reads what I write, through the people she sends "in" to spy.  Do I care?  Nope.  Let her read the truth about what she did, OVER AND OVER again till it really sinks in and maybe, just maybe, she starts to FEEL a teency bit of empathy or something about it all.  If it bothers her that I'm using exact situations without using her name, well, she has a right to come on here and tell her side of things...she already had one of her groupies do that a while ago, named WOW.

I never have really met any of her close friends, except one.  that one, X admitted to me, she does NOT open up and tell everything to.  X doesn't have the capacity or desire to be intimately close with anyone anyway.

Ok..feeling like I'm going off on a tangent, so I'm going to hush and let ya'll respond or whatever (

[guest101]

everything written on this page, imo, is so helpful and honest.

i would just like to add on others and for those who are not spiritual, please forgive me.


as I became more in tune with my own feelings, recognizing when I was deceiving MYSELF I became able to discern those who were also in the practice of self-deception. 

even here, on line. my spirit is moved by dishonesty and ill-intentions. 

RMs admonition that ANYONE can post here is so important.  Anyone, with any intentions, at any stage of their life, in any frame of mind.


my awareness came about by

1) taking time in my relationships -- not jumping head long into them

2) having an honest relationship with God (listening to my spirit , trusting it -- silencing the voice of my parents who told me I didn't know what I was talking about it.  some people call it their conscious - I am lead by your spirit).

3) watching other peoples behavior, even when their words to cover up their actions totally contradict what they say their intentions are.  it will always be a patten.  some people so want to believe that they are "good" they can't see the harm that they do IMO, that's because they still believe people there are all good and all bad people.  they don't get that we all do "bad" things now and then.

what separates us from the narcissist - our conscious, our ability to self-reflect, to be accountable?

I can actually <b>feel </b>how sincere a person is and if their heart is in the right place or if they mean me harm.    I note this feeling, watch and listen.



I firmly believe that just as our radar goes up when we come in contact with those who mean us harm, THEIR radar comes up, too. she is too honest, it might say or she points to a flaw I don't want to see, it might whisper or she might pull of my mask, it might warn, I need to discredit her.  you find yourself under attack and spiritually, subconsciously, that is what is going on.

this happens to me, too.  but I have learned to listen to that voice, to sit with the discomfort.  I've escaped the shame.  I can look at myself under the mask and say, "ah, I need to change that."

some people cannot do that.  and to avoid doing that they WILL hurt others.

and it IS dangerous to tangle with the wrong people, those type of people.

all of us have learned this.

our very souls are in jeopardy.

when two people hurt each other but there is accountability and understanding, sharing, a reaching out healing comes about -- it is beautiful and powerful.

but when there are ill-intentions, masks, deceit, lack of accountability, understanding and sharing, closed off parts of ourselves in operation it can be devastating, leaving a person at the brink of despair, feeling unloved, betrayed, attacked and labelled. 

it is a spiritual attack, I believe, one that we can scarcely recover from.

when I am emotional, I can hardly form a coherent sentence.  my mind is not working properly.  my heart is racing.  my tongue is tied and I can't think straight. 

it is trauma, revisited.

just as many of us experienced in our childhoods and again in our marriages/relationships

[bigalspal]

Hi Reallyme, Ami & lighter,
I just got back from my pre-surgery blood work. Yuck!
Anyway, Reallyme, I know what you mean about our x's our N family members seeing what we post.
I would have a heart attack if my NMother saw all of this!
She would be making those telephone wires hum.
And it wouldn't do any good for her to read this. To her it's just fiction.
KWIM?
Love,
Bigalspal

[Ami]

Dear Guest,
   That was  powerful and profound. The only way to learn that would be tremendous pain and tremendous introspection., I would think.
   If we don't know these lessons ,we are doomed to a poor quality of life.
  I did not know these lessons,until now,. My life simply did not work. I was sick and defeated,.
                                                                                                               Love   Ami
   P.S    Bigalspal- what does KWIM     mean?
 
   

[bigalspal]

Hi friends,
If you looked at my last post you can see it has NOTHING to do with the topic. 
I meant to post it on Reallyme's thread about Hijacking threads. Looks like I just did it!
All I can say is I'm getting really old!
Sorry guys!
Love,
Bigalspal
Ps: I just went back & looked & I MIGHT have this on the right topic after all.
I'm soooo confused.
I do have an excuse tho, my kid called me to see how dr's. appt went. I guess I can't walk & chew gum at the same time.

[reallyME]

I also want to suggest that a person's individual temperament has a LOT to do with if they are chosen by a narcissist, borderline, or other dysfunctional being.

If you are mostly sanguine, that means you tend to see everything in life as a laughing matter, fun, humorous...and you pretty much do things in a fun, enjoyable way.  With the sanguine friend in our original group, X didn't seem to really CONNECT.  X preferred staying in a constant state of depression or cynicism.

If you are mostly the phlegmatic type, this means you are laid back, peace at any price, non-committal for the most part...just "everyone try to get along"...X handled the Phleg of our group, very RELUCTANTLY, and constantly tried to make Phleg more like her, which, in her opinion, was taking way too long, so she eventually moved on to a more worthy target.

If you are mostly melancholy, YOU ARE THE PERFECT PREY TO A NARCISSIST!...you are emotional, unsure at times, you tend to doubt yourself and flip flop back and forth, you tend to want to be perfect and beat yourself up when you aren't.  You get caught up in the moment of things, so you don't usually finish what you begin.  X handled the Melancholy friend as her SERVANT/SLAVE for the most part...promised her the sun,moon and stars, but then began beating Melancholy down with critical words.  N's LOVE melancholy prey, because they are "moldable" and tend to be looking for someone to "lead" them and "direct" them.  (in my estimation, the majority of Codependents, tend to be mostly MELANCHOLIES...though not ALL of them are)

If you are mostly CHOLERIC, you are DRIVEN, goal-focused rather than people-focused, and you GET THE JOB DONE.  You tend to not like working with others, because you feel you can zero in on things and get them done, but you don't pay enough attention to details, so sometimes what you have done is not stable either.  N's will sometimes hook up with Cholerics, because they tend to not show their emotions and see emotional people as somewhat WEAK.  X hooked up with me, who, having just come out of a relationship with a BPD, was, by appearances, seeking a "leader" in my life.  We immediately clicked, she showered me with gifts, told me I was her one and only that understood her, introduced me to her family and some "friends" and soon after, decided I was NOT heeding her, not complying, and daring to OPPOSE her ways...therefore, the devaluation process began, I was discarded, replaced and demeaned and she moved on to victim next.

[bigalspal]

Hi Again, Reallyme,
I looked at your personality types & tried to figure out which one is me, & I think I'm a mixture of all of them except the  Phlegmatic type.
I really am NOT laid back. (you wouldn't of guess than, now would you? 
I certainly was a target. There's no doubt about that. NMother was 16, & I "ruined her life"
No, I've learned on this board, she was projecting. SHE ruined her life.
You mentioned that your X picked you until you had an opinion.
How are you NOW, AFTER that experience?
Hope you don't mind me asking?
Love,
Bigalspal

[moonlight52]

Laura

Your descriptions are great and absolutely true keeping a sense of humor is a great way to keep self in the comfort zone.
And I believe laughter and compassion places self in protection without doing harm.
I like to remember the Four Agreements by M. Ruiz These are agreements to make with ourselves.

1. Be impeccable with your word-Speak with integrity Say only what you mean.Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2.Don't take anything personally-Nothing others do is because of you.What others say and do is a projection of their own reality.When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others,you will not be the victim of needless suffering.

3.Don't make assumptions-Find the courage to ask questions and express what you really want.Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama.With just this one agreement ,you can completely transform your life.

4.Always do your best-Your best is going to change from moment to moment ; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick.Under any circumstance, simply do your best and you will avoid self judgment,self abuse and regret.

The board has had a thread on the four agreements I like to go back and reread them and try and do my best I do not always succeed but I am trying.

[Hopalong]

Oh yark, I'm melancholy.    Dang.

Does a melancholic in denial turn into a sanguine?
I'm giving it a hearty try.

 

love
Hops

[reallyME]

WOW MOON, guess what?  My therapist recommended a book to me today...THE 4 AGREEMENTS!  If it's not a GOD thing that you just mentioned that book again, I don't know what is!

BG Pal, I'm doing fine after the X went to her next supply sources.  It helps to have this board to talk on though, more than ya might know yet!  It helps to have my spiritual mom, papa and Aunts too.  God is good and still on the throne in my life.  I only pray that X will one day realize that the "god" she portrayed to me...one of non-understandable mysticism that only the "elite" could grasp, the "god" who was never fully satisfied with her or me, the "god" who was "out to git" people...is NOT TRULY GOD!

~Laura

[bigalspal]

Hi Laura,
I'm so glad you are doing well.
May I ask another question?
Do you have a really loving mother? Is she the one you call your spritual mother?
I guess I'm curious because of what I went through with my mom.
If you do/did have a loving mother, did you find that it made it easier to heal from the pain your x caused you?
You just sound like you are in such a good place about this.
Sorry I'm so nosy!
Love,
Bigalspal

[moonlight52]

Laura ,

I love it my T just suggested this book a couple of weeks ago ,but I first heard about the book the four agreements on the board.
I got a copy just by chance from a friend that let me borrow their copy.
RM you Know I think it is a GOD thing....

Love to you,
moon

[Sela]

Hi everyone,

Been reading through this thread and so many people's words hit home ....this in particular:

Guest101 wrote:

I firmly believe that just as our radar goes up when we come in contact with those who mean us harm

I wish I could say I've learned this but so far, I'm not so sure.  Sometimes, I think I have a kind of hyper-radar and I misjudge those who really mean no harm at all (thinking they do mean me harm) and other times, I trust too much and don't see that someone is intent on harming me, until the harm is well on it's way.     I feel like I'm losing confidence in this area, like I should be learning but for some reason....I'm not getting better at it.  I guess I just have to keep trying to learn?

when two people hurt each other but there is accountability and understanding, sharing, a reaching out healing comes about -- it is beautiful and powerful

I love it when that happens! 

......but when there are ill-intentions, masks, deceit, lack of accountability, understanding and sharing, closed off parts of ourselves in operation it can be devastating, leaving a person at the brink of despair, feeling unloved, betrayed, attacked and labelled.

This is so accurate, the way you put this, Guest.  It's exactly what has also happened and how I have felt.  I would only add that it occurs very insidiously and maybe that's why I don't pick up on it easily?

it is trauma, revisited.

Sure is.  Thanks for putting all that into words so clearly, Guest.



About the original topic of this thread......intellectual vs emotional responses:

For me, I think I appreciate both.  Often, an emotional response feels good and helps but so does some clear thinking and intellectual input.   I haven't paid as much attention to this as I could so I will try harder to do that but I'm not sure I'll be able to tell what any person really wants or needs (or even that I'll be in the right state to offer the right thing).  I'm content to receive either/or because I really believe anyone who bothers to post....is trying to share and often help, which I find very touching.

I do get how a person's feelings might feel discounted or dismissed by a post that simply does not even acknowledge them.  We do all need validation, I believe.  On the other hand, none of us are perfect and if one forgets, I've noticed that usually another will come along and remember.  Thankyou all for doing that!

Sela

[Hopalong]

Sela,
You are a person with a wide embrace who reaches out to the forgotten and is concerned about understanding what someone may need or be asking for. You are exactly one of the reasons that I first was moved, and then amazed, and then thrilled by, and then inspired, by this board.

Thank you, sweetie.

love
Hops