Voice or voiceless??? What is right?

[Lupita]

My friend P, she is now more friends with everybody in the Book Club. We had a meeting yesterday. Although everybody listen to my opinions and my statements, I did not feel welcome at all. I do not know what happened there. Something happened, something must have happened.
The founder of the club likes to have a group to adore him and listen to him, and probably I was putting too much passion and he did not like that. He wants to be the one to mark the rhythm. He did not subjected to vote the next place of meeting. It seems like he already decided where is going to be.
If I want to be there I have to be very quiet. I do not know what to think.
Nobody has been impolite, but I feel bad vibration. I do not know what to do.
What seems interesting to me is that for the first time, I do not feel sad or fearful of them. If they do not appreciate me, I will not go back there anymore. I do not want to work hard for nobody's sympathy. The sympathy is there of it is not there.
But still, I do not know what to do. Do I want to be a sheep and follow the leader and belong to something? Do I want to enforce my boundaries? If I enforce my boundaries I will be alone, and probably lonely. But I do not want to be in a group where I do not have a voice.
I do not know what to do.
As usual, you always give wonderful ideas. Dear, friends, what do you think?
What is my problem? Why do I not fit in anyplace?
It seems that I start wonderfully everywhere and always something happens that ruins it. There is a pattern. But I do not know what to do.

[lighter]

HI LUPITA! 

::waving::

I think you should look for another book club to join, just in case.  Your discomfort may be telling you it's time to move on.

You could wait and let your friend shoot herself in the foot with your book club..... see what happens but......
you may find a club you like even better.

I will say this.

I belonged to a book club at church and it was full of wonderful elderly characters. 

Sometimes, one of us didn't quite fit in with every story we explored together. 

Sometimes it was me.

Sometimes it was the friend  who liked to talk and talk and talk and I could see people's eyes glaze over if she went on too long, poor dear.  We all still loved and welcomed her very much.

Sometimes it was another person and I gotta tell ya, I bumped heads with the leader of our little group on more than one occassion.  ::looking around innocently..... moi?::

We sorta took turns getting passionate and being triggered and sometimes it didn't get resolved during that class.

::shrug:: 

It was always forgotten by the next class when it was sombody else's turn in the barrell. 

I think you should:

1)  Look around at other book clubs near you

2)  Relax and assume that everyone likes you and wants you to be comfortable and happy while you're at your current club

3)  Simply relax and choose to observe what's really going on around you at the next meeting.  No emotion or fear.  Just pull back and observe.  You may find you feel differently or..... you may find you're feelings are validated and move on.

(((Lupita)))  I missed you!

[Lupita]

Thank you Lighter, Thanks for the time and ideas.
I do not want to be in a group where I do not have a voice. Where I do not count. That is the way it is going to be if I continue in that group. A couple of people have the power and everybody follows them. What makes me sad is that I took P there. And she stabbed me in the back. I am glad because that way I see that she was never my friend. I do not like her and I do ot want to be with her. I invited two of the best members. He is a writer and he is an aset to the group. Now, I guess I will lose my friends.
The two in power, one always gives me orders. She asks me to do things I do not want to do and her mother is the same. So, I guess that I do not fit there anymore.
Sad is that I do not fit anywhere. Still, I do not know why. Or maybe I know. Probably because A, the founder, did not want a writer in the group, and somebody with real knowledge of literature. O, the other founder, is mad because she only invites me when she needs somebody to drive, like to parties or beach, etc.
I feel like I am at the beginning again, looking for friends. I feel very depressed, and sad.
Thank you for your time, I appreciate it.

[Lupita]

I thought I was not sad, but I am. I am not fearful though. That is the only good. Other times that something like this happened I was totally consumed in pain. Not this time. Just sad. Alone again. What am I doing wrong?
Probably I am being insensitive because I should have known that this writer would intimidate a fragile ego of A. But I thought so positively of him that I thought he would appreciate a knowledgeable member. I was wrong.
Somebody told me, never do too much, never do too little, always mediocrity, and you will be accepted everywhere. I start to think that is correct. All the time i put passion in something I get problems. I am so sad.

[lighter]

No no no Lupita.

This pain and discomfort is telling you that you will find another place to belong.

It is motivation to get you away from the people who were using you.

GO AND FIND ANOTHER BOOK CLUB!  

A BETTER ONE!

::whispering::

Then go ask your two best book club guys to come join you there.  ::shrug::

But don't invite that mean girl this time, lol.  

Oh Lupita..... my sib always told me NOT TO HELP UNLESS YOU WERE ASKED.

I think that's better than shooting for mediocre.

Be you.  

Be confident.  

Be happy and things will come easier for you when you aren't making decisions from a position of fear.

I get treated differently by the whole world when I feel good and I'm focused on living in the moment and finding my simple daily pleasures and taking care of myself.

Isn't there some cool bookstores in your area with clubs?

Church's for sure.

How about neighborhood ones in your area?

What about starting your own?

You have to reach out and open some doors, hon.  Even if they aren't the right doors, they lead to other doors still.

It's a journey and it's better if you see it as an amazing experience that will unfold with surprises and amazing things and sad things and happy things.  Everything has a season and all that.  

Embrace it and see what it has for ((Lupita))

Obligatory Lighter saying:  "your altitude is determined by your attitude"

Not sure if that helps you, but...... I hope you feel better and discover some new and interesting people soon: )

Be choosey and be savvy.  

Listen to your gut.  

The gut knooooowwwwws things, lol; )

[Hopalong]

Hi Lupe,
I vote for continuing there a few times, just to observe yourself and them. For some reason it's triggering stuff, and some of that stuff may be bigger-FEELING than it is. (Or not.) Maybe using the detachment to go: hmmm, I notice I'm feeling this, and that, etc., could be useful? Or if it makes you feel awful, then I ditto, find another.

Or both?

I noticed you said one person "gives you orders." Hmm. That sounds like an opportunity to practice assertiveness. I might wonder, what makes this person look at me and think, there's someone I will tell what to do. I think I won't take an order. There we go...nobody can give me an order that I refuse. What would happen if I said, No, I don't want to do that, but I'm going to fetch the wine glasses (or whatever)...

Don't know the answers but I have a feeling there's FOO stuff going on there.

Idea! How about group therapy? I personally have benefitted hugely from that in the past.

love, got to run,
Hops

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lupita,

I think you're learning alot through your interactions with this book-group... and if you leave now, you might miss "the rest of the story"

I'm sorry you're hurting, Lupita...these uncomfortable feelings you're having seem to me like growing pains which are natural and normal, and even positive. It's like exercise... muscles get sore, but if we stop using them then they stiffen up. Gotta press through, maybe?

You're doing a wonderful job of sharing all this here on the board and I'm believing that will help you to gain strength and courage.
I don't think it is at all that you don't fit in anyplace.
Just maybe you leave before the group (and individual) growing pains get a chance to run their course?

It may help for you to consider what it is you'd really like to have happened in that group... for instance, when you introduced your (former) friend to them.
How would you have liked for the others to have responded? What do you picture in your mind as a satisfying outcome?

Love,
Hope

[Lupita]

CB, thank you for your time. I feel so paranoid. I feel that A and O want to kick me out. O gives me orders. For example, she wants me to drive to the beach to her best friend. Her best friend calls me and asks me, I say I have something else going at that time. She says bye. Then O calls me and says why you don’t want to take S to the beach. I say   I have something to do. She says why don’t you do it another time? I got mad. I did not follow her order, but she gave it. What do I do to elicit that kind of disrespect? Next time I know they are going out dancing, and they do not invite me. O and A are good friends and founders of the book club.  Same thing happened in my last church. I was  not wanting to obey orders from the leaders and they kick me out. They talked to one on one to everybody and asked them not to talk to me. I left. I am afraid that is what is going to happen here. And P the friend that I took there, she is backing them up. So, I have this creepy thought that O is telling others something I do not know about. P tells me that she recieves e mails from O which I do not. I feel so devastated. If I get locked up out of my car I call the luck smith people and pay 30 bocks and fix it. O hot locked up out of her car and she wanted me to drive her around. Fortunately I was very far from her site and was not convenient for her. After the book meeting yesterday, A did not want to say where is the next meeting. He is hiding it. Why? He does not want me to participate. He did not want to tell the writer where the next meeting is going to be. That was supposed to be subjected to vote.  There is not transparency. He is manipulating things at his convenience. After I provided the people from my own friends. I feel bad. I am afraid that other people do to me what my mother did. Always isolating me.

[Lupita]

Dear Hop, what is foo? Why does it hurt so much that A did not want to say bye to me. Not only that, but in front of me gave a huge pat in the back to P, I took P there, and P gets pat in the back and I do not get even a good bye?
P gets lost and he goes out to the street to find her. I get lost and he tells me why I did not get the right address from the internet? What did I do for him to treat me different? Try to have a beach meeting? Try to bring a real writer to the group? He felt threaten? He was the start before. Yesterday, my friend the writer had control of all the conversation. A told me that it was causing division and that he did not want to accept nobody else in the group. I said that why did not we make a website for the group, and he said that he was going to think about it. Like he owns it. Maybe he feels threaten by me.
Do I sound crazy? This happens to me over and over, every time I reach out to do something in group. I start feeling bad, triggered, paranoid, hurting, I always provoke bad feelings in people. But only happens with the leaders. It seems that I upset the leaders. Am I doing it in purpose? How, if I do not even know what am I doing? Then I feel bad, and leave, or be kicked out like in the church. All my life. Jobs, group of friends, group of whatever. I get sick. I am going to follow all the advises here. I am going to find another group. Also, will keep going to this but very quietly trying to analyze, very carefully, but hoe can I do that if I cant think clearly? I feel so bad that I cant think?
But today, O’s mother called me and asked me, where are you?  And I said, why? First time I say why before somebody else.  I know I do not want anything to do privately with O or P or A, but I would like to see if I am right. What if they e mail each other with out sending to me? I am getting so paranoid.
I am wondering if it was better when I was alone in my house without any club.

Please, friends, help me out here.

[Lupita]

CH, if I ask A if he is mad at me, he might say, it is your idea, or you are paranoid, oh no, nothing, why do you say that. But I know he is mad. He never left with out saying good bey. We have been meeting since January, every 15 days.
Yesterday was the best meeting ever. It was smoke coming out of the place. Everybody was participating, because ny friend the writer knew how to create the ebvironement. Maybe A was threaten by that. A and O think that the group belongs to them. If they consider me a threat, they will kick me out. The others are sheeps, beeee beeee beee, they will do whatever O and A want. They accept O and A as superior, but me as equal, and to defy that is defiant.
I am not making any sense. What is wrong with me.

[Lupita]

Last time I felt like this, was in that stupid church. Two years ago. I do not want that to happene again. My son says that I have to feel that I do not need the aproval of anybody, that I do not need anybody's love. Just my self. He says that I have to say that to my self one thousand times a day. Maybe because I stopped my afirmations. I have to start again.

On top of that, I met a new friend in the mall and invited her to my new church, one year going there, and today she went and Sunday school, was about false teachers, and they talked about politics, and they mentioned a candidate as a false teacher, and that made me feel horrible, because that could have made her feel bad, and I wanted her to listen about love. That did not happen.

Everything I do becomes bad. Failure.

[Lupita]

I just recieved and e mail from A saying that the next meeting will be taken place at O's house. She wants that. He did not put the writer in the e mail list. He is trying to see if I am going to ask him. He did not put my friend in the e mail list. I feel so sad.
Probably, I am fihting. Why? I do not really like the kind of books they read. I do not like the places where they meet. I o just because I am so lonely, and so hungry for human contact, for friends, I enjoy reading the books on this website, children of the slef absobed, life traps, trapped in the mirror, etc. Those literature books are not specially attractive to me.
Why do I feel so bad? Do I have some kind of PTSD?
Oh God. I need somebody here with me.

[Lupita]

Lihgter, I am so sick today. I think I am not ready yet. Still a teen ager inside, going to high school to suffer with the popular cheer leaders. Or my mom and my sister.

[Ami]

Dear Lupita,
 FOO is family of origin. I think that you answered your own question. You feel like you are back with your mother again--- isolated and rejected(if I have this right). I think that you are replaying old patterns. When you heal the old patterns--- you will not  keep replaying them(IMO).. You need to heal them and face them in the way that is best for you                  Love Ami

[lighter]

Dear Hop, what is foo? Why does it hurt so much that A did not want to say bye to me. Not only that, but in front of me gave a huge pat in the back to P, I took P there, and P gets pat in the back and I do not get even a good bye?

((((Lupita))))  It's just a virtual hug sweetie but.... I wish I could give you a real hug.  You are so sweet I'm afraid that the mean people see it a mile away and knock you about just because they can.  It's what they do and I don't doubt your perceptions though I have to make sure I step back and check my own when I feel those same things.  Sometimes it's old stuff and my insecurity.   Most of the time..... it's really happening the way you think it is. ((Lupita))  

P gets lost and he goes out to the street to find her. I get lost and he tells me why I did not get the right address from the internet? What did I do for him to treat me different? Try to have a beach meeting? Try to bring a real writer to the group? He felt threaten? He was the start before. Yesterday, my friend the writer had control of all the conversation. A told me that it was causing division and that he did not want to accept nobody else in the group. I said that why did not we make a website for the group, and he said that he was going to think about it. Like he owns it. Maybe he feels threaten by me.
Do I sound crazy? This happens to me over and over, every time I reach out to do something in group. I start feeling bad, triggered, paranoid, hurting, I always provoke bad feelings in people. But only happens with the leaders. It seems that I upset the leaders. Am I doing it in purpose? How, if I do not even know what am I doing? Then I feel bad, and leave, or be kicked out like in the church. All my life. Jobs, group of friends, group of whatever. I get sick. I am going to follow all the advises here. I am going to find another group. Also, will keep going to this but very quietly trying to analyze, very carefully, but hoe can I do that if I cant think clearly? I feel so bad that I cant think?
But today, O’s mother called me and asked me, where are you?  And I said, why? First time I say why before somebody else.  I know I do not want anything to do privately with O or P or A, but I would like to see if I am right. What if they e mail each other with out sending to me? I am getting so paranoid.
I am wondering if it was better when I was alone in my house without any club.

Please, friends, help me out here.

I don't think that you're crazy.  I think that you have a certain demeanor that makes the N'ish personalities feel  entitled to manipulate and exploit you.  You may give them that signal and need to work on sending out more confident, assertive signals so they don't assume you're at their disposal.  I think they can tell who's vulnerable and can be manipulated, Lupita.

I read in a book that we always receive and give signals, was it GETTING THE LOVE YOU NEED?  I think so and very good book, btw.  We are always subconsiously asessing people when we meet them, even when we don't realize it....

'This person will nurture me'

'This person will hurt me'

That sort of thing.  You're so nice Lupita and there are a lot of meanies in the world.  It's not that you ONLY meet them, it's just that other meanies don't let them jerk them around, use them and discard them.  They wouldn't.  But we don't see it coming.  Must put that helmet back on and make better choices Lupita.  Screw yourself up and remember to count your blessings and say NO to the unworthy things.... so you have room for the things that will build you up.  

I say this a lot but..... for me..... it's what makes sense and what's always gotten me through my past voids.... into the light: )