Author Topic: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?  (Read 8762 times)

isittoolate

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2007, 09:33:09 PM »
For everyone:

This fits the saying: "Wherever you go, there you are."

You can go live in another time zone and you are still you, unless you change first then move to another time zone but then why bother if you are all fixed up in this time zone 'cause it's gonna cost you a pile of moolah to find a time zone where you aren't you. You will be you. might as well do it now right there, wherever you are!

Certain Hope

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2007, 10:25:20 PM »
For everyone:

This fits the saying: "Wherever you go, there you are."

You can go live in another time zone and you are still you, unless you change first then move to another time zone but then why bother if you are all fixed up in this time zone 'cause it's gonna cost you a pile of moolah to find a time zone where you aren't you. You will be you. might as well do it now right there, wherever you are!

This is so true  :)   Thanks, Izzy!


Lupita, I'm so glad that you're feeling a bit less bad. I'll be praying for you.

With love,
Hope

Hopalong

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2007, 10:38:30 PM »
Hi Lup:

I hear your frustration and a lot of progress in the very same post:

Quote
I know I am right. I know I did the right thing. I know I do not want to be in a group for pleasure where we do not subgect to vote what is next, instead of ons person to decide.
I choose to take a brake from these people. Why do i feel bad?

I am not feeling as bad as I felt three hours ago.

I think if you ask a new question: Why am I NOT feeling as bad as I did 3 hours ago?
You may find that you've already answered it.

The difference is that this question is grounded in the present moment. That's the moment you can observe, and make changes in. You can't make changes in the past. You can't make changes in the future. But you can change one thought, notice one reaction, and draw a new conclusion (even about the smallest shift)...in the present.

That's where I think the answers are.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2007, 11:33:19 PM »
For everyone:

This fits the saying: "Wherever you go, there you are."


I went to Europe to find myself. 


I wasn't there: /

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2007, 08:13:42 AM »
Dear friend members of this board, it is such a blessing to have you here, it was very helpful.

Yes, I feel better today. Not sad, more indifferent. Why? I do not know.

Why I was so sad when A pat P in the back?

I was 5 years old, and my father put me in the bicycle, and push me. I fell. He did it again, and again. Not consoling me for my knees bleeding. I finally learned. But the fear going to the unknown in the bicycle, those few seconds, with my knees bleeding, still again falling again, those second of terror. five years old. When my little brother needed to learn, they hired a person to come to the house everyday to carefully hold him every afternoon, for two hours, until he learned. He was never pushed. He never fell. When he got hurt, he was consoled. My mother hated me.

Not to mention how I learned to swim. Lots of swallowing and asphyxiation. Not for my brother and my sister. I was the chosen.

They hit me with belt. Every day. Not to my bother and my sister.

My mother told me horrible things in secret. Nobody heard it. When I complained, she said it was not true. nobody believed me. Until today. Mo brother things my mother loves him more because he is a good son, and I am a bad daughter. My brother is totally blind to the abuse of my mother. My sister is "retarded", she is 45 and she does not work, my mother works three jobs to support my sister. My sister is a civil engineer. She does not want to work. She has not worked in ten years. I was nine years old and she showed me the pubic hear of my father's lover. Why would she show me? She found those hairs in one of our blankets, at home. Then she asked him to bit me with belt. That does not make any sense. Many, many things happened in my house. I had a new car, my first new car of my life, 45 years old, a cart from the supermarket, abandoned in the parking lot came towards my car and hit it. My mother laught. I cried.

I was wondering if that is the reason why,  I hate to be treated differently. I hate those secrets and games. Controlling, power games, I know I have to put up with it in a job to make a living, but not for a group that it is supposed to be of pleasure.

I want to find healthy people. Mature people. I do not know how I am going to get rid of O and P. O is a professor at the university. P is a social worker. They are educated people. I cannot tell them I really dislike them. I canto tell them they make me vomit. O's mother is also a manipulator. She calls me three times a day and ask me where are you? Yesterday for the first time I said, why?
My plan, I will not answer my phone. I will call back everybody in the evening late and tell them sorry I missed them.
A is very rich. A has many properties. condos, buildings. I am the only poor person in the group. So, I have to be very careful.

Your phrases, your tools, your help will be very much appreciated.

I need to get away from these people without them to know that I hate them.

Your sentences, are very helpful. Sentences don't come to my mouth at the necessary time.

Thank you all who took the time to write me, your opinions are very important.

Love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2007, 08:19:42 AM »
Do you think is it possible to find  friends that are healthy? Friends that don't have creepy psychological games?

Is that possible? Or I am going to be lonely forever because I am looking for something that does not exist?

Do you think that O and A are normal people?

If thery are normal, why are they intimidated by a member who really has knowledge of the same club  that they want to form? Like my friend the professional writer?

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2007, 09:25:40 AM »
Am I looking for something inexistent? I feel so numbed right now. So indifferent. The sky could fall over my place and it would not make any difference.

motheroffour

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2007, 09:46:27 AM »
Hey Lupita,

You are an important person to me today.  Read this thread and felt like you said so many things that reflect my own feelings and thoughts and strugglings.   Thanks for the example.  I have learned a lot.  I am desperate to find the answers.  Maybe I need to focus on it "in the moment" as one of you said earlier.  I so need to learn not to let others define me and not need others so badly.  I think that my internal compass is trying to  lead me to these things.  You all can verballize it so well.  Thank you.

Anyway, enough ramblings.  Wanted you to know that I appreciate your courage in posting.  Lupita, let me know if you have any success with this, Ok?

--mof4

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2007, 09:57:33 AM »
Mother, thank you so much for your validation. I thought that if I was degrading my self my mother would love me. That is why I do it with others, thinking that they would love me. But they dispise us when we do that. It is the opposite.
Just do not know how to do it correctly.
You have no idea how much pain I have pour into this thread. Every single word I have written in this thread has been with tears coming out. I could have a fish swimming here if I collected them. This thread has been sad, sad. Mf4, I guess, you do have an idea of how much pain I have. You do.
Thank you.

I will not answer the phone when O's mother calls. I have to find an excuse for not to take her out on Friday. She wanted to go out with me on Friday. I do not want to be with her.

Dear friends, help me get rid of these creepy people, with out making them my enemies, please!!!!!!!!!! I am afraid of them.

Ami

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2007, 10:32:47 AM »
Dear Lupita,
   It is NOT hopeless- first of all. You can heal and you will heal if you will face the truth of your life as you are(IMO). The Bible promises us that we will be made free if we will face the truth. This will work no matter if you believe in God or not. or how you believe in God It is a basic truth. of life What is imprisoning you is LIES. It is that simple even though it feels much more complicated than that.
  IMO-- you have begun the process today of looking at the lies that you were told about yourself- You were the "despised" one. You were the worthless one.No wonder you feel horrible. ANYONE would. Anyone in the whole world who had your background would feel the same way.It is amazing that you are as 'good" as you are.
  Let us start here. You made it you are alive. You can function. Now, you will step by step face the pain. You will see(over time) that it was ALL lies. 
   I am doing this and I am getting free. It will work b/c it is a promise from the One who made you. It will work for anyone and everyone who does it.
   I will help you. Just keep sharing and writing the pain,. You will slowly begin to see that none of it had anything to do with Lupita as a person. They were all sick. When you see these truths  ,you will begin to heal.
  The friends issue is secondary.                                           Love Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

motheroffour

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2007, 11:08:38 AM »
Lupita--I hear your pain and feel your pain.  I have tears for you and with you.  So much pain! for so long!  I feel so like you describe in your book club situations.  I have never been given permission or given myself permission to stand alone.  I always feel like that makes me hard and unloving or unaccepting of others differences.  I always try so hard to make the others comfortable at my expense.  Maybe I hope that will qualify me for their love.  Maybe I think that it is giving love to others but then they dispise us....the more that I learn about myself, it feels more like manipulating or controlling it to get my needs met.  Crazy sad, I am, huh?  I am learning the hard lesson that I CAN do these things.  That it is ok to stand up and be me -- even though others may send flack my way.  Love how you said you wanted to" get rid of them without making them enemies."


Amy-- What does IMO mean?  And I agree that it is not really the friend thing, it is about all the lies.  I think I understand the dynamics, but I find myself discouraged in my quest to find and believe the truth.  I think I have known this since I was a little girl.  And, I agree about the hope!

--mof4

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2007, 11:20:32 AM »
Thank you Mf4, I agree with you.

Ami, I agree with tou 99%. Everything you said it is right. Except that friends are secondary. Maslow piramid, you need basif needs, water food, air, then education, then social. Men are social animals by nature, we cannot live in a cave forever, I needfriends. I need to go out, dancing, have coffee, talk to people.

I live alone, come to empty house, no problem with that. But I need to have somebody to go to the movies with. That is why I want to be able to have friends that go out. Not Ns that exploit me.

But having social life is a basic part of life.

The last part of the piramid of maslow is the love of a man. Fullfillment of being able to attract a person of the opposite sex. That is in the top of the piramid.

Social is very importat. I want to have that. I understand that cant have it if I am so sick that get nausiated everytime somebody intends to use me. I want to learn to say no, to say no, just simple sorry i cant.

Not to feel bad ofr it. Not to desire human contact at any cost.

Everything else you said is beautiful. Beautiful. It was lies. Pure lies. I think that my father hated me too.

Not his fault. Dead for 40 years now. So, cant blame him.

Ami

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2007, 11:33:39 AM »
Dear Lupita,
   I f you start with the basic premise that it was lies--- that in itself will help
    MO4  IMO-- means in my opinion                                                                 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

lighter

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2007, 11:45:52 AM »
Lupita:

I am sitting here resisting the urge to tell you to handle your book club people with a big smile.....



looking them straight in the eye.....




and telling them.....




without any animosity at all.......



 maybe a little amused hurmor.......






but telling them, alone or in a group, as the situation arises.....



saying to them..... with a smile and without any negative emotions.....
"It must really SUCK.......



to be you"  Lupita all confident and truthful, lol.  ::Sigh::  




And I beleive that it does suck to be them, not that you should really SAY that to them, lol... though I have said it to a past N.  Glad I did too, lol!  

I believe they secretly hate themselves and thats why the treat other people badly, to try to build themselves up and if they can control people they think are "good" then they own that too.  Destructive bad stuff that.  We don't have to figure them out though, thank God.  We just need to start handling them and our reactions to them, better.  

Ahhhhh..... this is from my past, one of my triggers I suppose.

 What I think you should do is not worry so much about what they think and busy yourself with finding stuff you like to do without them.  SO many things out there to discover and choose or try or reject.  You have the power to do that like everybody and anybody does.  

Rise above and observe yourself from a great distance, observe yourself like you are a stranger.  What advice would you give that woman?  What would you like to see that person doing that seems positive and delightful..... where should she go?  

When the the book club folk ask you what you're doing.... when you're mother phones you, you can just be busy and on your way out the doo, all the time.  

You don't have to tell them where or what or how long, even though you're compelled to do it, and I understand how powerful that compulsion is.  To be stay on the phone until you're dismissed.  BLECH!  You don't have to you can end the conversation too!

You can get better at being cheerfully abrupt and always busy.  

Or choosing not to answer phone calls when you see them on caller ID.  

The unexpected upside to being busy..... no matter what you're doing is..... people are attracted to busy people!

My mother told me that when I was a teenager and it turned out to be TRUE!

Whether it's because we seem more confident and capable or because people just like to take our attention away in a competition from something, I don't know.  But it's true!    

My advice is always to find some activities that build you up and skip the ones and people that aren't worthy.  

I say it over and over again.  

Not easy to do, I never said that, but something to strive for, I think.  Not everyone is at that place, not everyone will find that helpful.  But there it is.  

You found nice people here Lupita.  There are nice people in your world too.

BTW ((((LUPITA)))) Do not doubt for a minute that you were raised in an unfair improbable confusing dysfunctional family that does affect and trigger you.  You know identify that and that's half the struggle.  I CAN'T BELIEVE YOUR MOTHER SHOWED YOU THAT HAIR OR LET YOU GET HURT ON YOUR BIKE OR SWIMMING AND YOU WERE ABUSED BY HER AND YOUR FATHER!  Your brother should validate that for you but he just may not be able to.  What does it say about him if he does?  What does it say about his mother and father, who he needs too?  I am so sorry that happened to you (((LUPITA))) SO UNFAIR!

To concentrate on the good replacement things and not on the mean unworthy broken things is a better way to set your mind.  

Even while spending time crying and mourning and giving up hope for what you deserved, a loving mama who should have protected and nurtured you,  you can go back to concentrating on the blessings and small pleasures in your day afterwards, Lupita.  

Now, to replace hert, slowly, with better things: )  



Hopalong

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2007, 05:37:55 PM »
Aww, ((((((((((Lupita)))))))))

I would personally like to dig up your Dad for the pleasure of slowly drowning him. On his bicycle. In a flash flood.

And your mother? She is a gutterpipe for cruelty and I am sure does not even know it. Too broken.

So. Here you are. In the present and full of determination to get what you need in life. GOOD FOR YOU!

I think the best way to begin is as Lighter said, with small blessings. I think it's so easy and seductive and even perversely entertaining (has been for me, anyway) to focus on what we LACK and DON'T have ... that our capacity for gratitude literally withers.

I think happiness is directly connected to gratitude. Please don't confuse that with groveling (as I did). I mean a little contemplation, then intentionally meditating on the gifts in your life. For me, nature is a very good place to begin.

Can you ask yourself, along with all those savage questions you're so brave to ask...
what is beautiful here? what could I go look at for 30 minutes that could bring me joy?

Not about thinking/thoughts/mental monologue...but about "receiving" from a flower or animal...some message that will give you some of the life and strength the universe also dishes out.

I wish it for you, Lupita hon. You've had such a hard time lately, with work and the surgery and your mother's visit. No wonder things are piling up.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."