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sigh, sigh, sigh...

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write:
it just hit me tonight how much a narcissist my ex really is.
Despite the therapy, and him really really trying hard to do right.
Tonight he boasted ' I'm the favourite parent' while I was clearly agonising.
Maybe I need to spend less time with him, it tortures me really that he can go so far...then fall back into his old patterns.
When he's doing great I feel like why couldn't you be like this before, when he reverts to type I get hurt again...he says he's damned whatever he does. He is. He condemned himself a long tie ago by his behaviour.
It could take years for him to unravel, if he ever can ( the psych is confident he can modify his behaviour if he's determined, doesn't know about 'connecting' in relationships....)
I am so tired of my life being on hold while he's messed up and messing up.
We've been negotiating a great relationship for parenting, I let my guard down, but now I'm back on red alert.
I'm beginning to realise I HAVE TO find a new way of interacting with him, stop treating him in the open way I relate to others, he is hard-wired to mess with me and there's nothing I can do to change that only keep protecting myself and where we have to have contact asserting myself.
I love him, but love isn't the same thing to him, and its time I opened my eyes and accepted it.

sjkravill:
.... and sigh again...
I am so sorry to hear of the pain you are in... It is so heartbreaking, isn't it?  When we love them?  When we want them to be healthy for their sake and for the sake of everyone else involved (us included)?

I too think my H is really working, and he may well be... Then I am so surprised, confused and utterly disheartened to see the N qualities come out again.  
Then, I am filled with animosity.  Love/resentment for having to wait indefinately.  I wonder if he can or will or is changing???  How long will I wait?  ...sigh!

This piece of your post really caught my attention:
"I love him, but love isn't the same thing to him, and it's time I opened my eyes and accepted it"

There are so many ideas of love.  To N, I think love = need.  He believes he loves because it fills his self-image need.  What he feels is a strong attachment, maybe even sentiment.  My N thinks he respects and admires me, but not on the level which would cause him to treat me with respect.  It continues to be difficult for me to grasp.  I "get it" intellectually, but I can't believe or accept that it is true.

I certainly also feel a strong sentiment and attachment to him as well.  I have difficulty setting boundries because if I say "no" to him he will tell me that I don't "love" him.  When in actuality, saying No is loving.  It is saying, I love you enough to stop enabeling your unhealthy behavior by saying "yes" all the time.  Maybe failing to set boundries is filling my self-image need to feel like a "good" wife.  It can be a confusing distinction for me.  Usually I judge on effect more than intent, but I am trying to pay closer to both of our "real" intentions, because effects can be confusing.  I also feel a real affection for him, and believe that he is trying that he can change.  

I guess I am confused about what love really is, or what is acceptable in a healthy relationship...
oh well.

I don't know if I am making any sense...  I just wanted to send a supportive message in this difficult time.
Peace, sjkravill

write:
Thanks.

You know, I thought once we separated the pain would diminuish, but I guess in seeing such great changes in him I started to discount the narcissism, to enjoy the wonderful guy that he would be without it...

He has so much potential, but that's all it is, potential. He almost never follows through in any way to make the relationship real, there's a detachment about him, a lack of genuine emotion which will always ultimately make me feel worthless around him.

yes, that does tap into the damaged self from childhood, and I confused the two and repetitively relived an old pain.

I need to toughen up now, not be available to anyone who will abuse me or help me replay an old script.

I'm going to teach myself a couple of mantras or lines which I shall use to shut down an interaction as soon as it becomes abusive, with h, with anyone.

Gingerpeach:
Dear Write and Sjkravill,

Please consider that the times with the N when "things are good"  or "he is really trying"  may just be "acting" or the manifestation of the FALSE self. These good periods or attempts at "changing" may also be indicative of the N's desperation at doing ANYTHING that will keep you in the relationship.

Remember, they do NOT want you to leave.  They have captured you. You belong to them.  They have invested a lot of time and effort in training you to respond to them in the way that THEY want you to respond/behave.  They do not want this to go to waste.

I say this from my experience with my soon-to be-exNH.  When I discovered his betrayal/infidelity was the day that I began searching for the answer to WHY was he like this?  Within days, I found Narcissism and it explained the WHY to not just the betrayal question, but to all of the many unwritten questions that I had about all of the things that weren't "right."  I was one of those people with my jaw hanging as I read.

I stayed with him for a year and a half after that.  Like Sjkravill, I understood about the Narcissism in my head, but I couldn't internalize it.  I didn't really believe it in my heart.  

And in that year and a half, his behavior improved markedly.  But only to a point and really, only superficially.  I posted previously to Sjkravill that I noticed that the insults were more veiled, the abuse was more subtle.  It was still there though, continuing to erode my soul.  And.... I needed to be vigilant or the truly awful stuff would return in short order.  I ask you, is this any way to live your life, eternally watchful? On guard?  Where is the joy?

Anyway, two days before Christmas 2002, the penny dropped.  It finally became very clear that he was never going to really change,  that any change in behavior was just that....a change in behavior.  It didn't really change HIM or create any real connection between us , or respect or real lovingness.

So, when a month later, I told him that I wanted to end the relationship, the most revealing thing that he said was....."So, I've spent the last year and a half dancing around to your tune for nothing?"

See?  It really wasn't about becoming a better person for the sake of being a better person, it was "acting" like a better person to keep me from leaving.  That was all it was.  And he KNEW it too !!!  

Talk about feeling like a piece of meat !!  WE REALLY ARE NOT HUMAN TO THEM.  This is the hardest part of it to accept.  Since you are not an N, you can't IMAGINE thinking of or treating others as something less than human.

So when Write  says....."I started to discount the narcissism, to enjoy the wonderful guy that he would be without it" ....  I question whether it is possible for the guy to exist without the Narcissism.

I apologize if I am sounding so pessimistic.  I can only tell you from my experience.  My time with him was truly hell on earth.  The leaving is hard, painful and lonely too, because since they absorb us so well, when we leave.......it leaves a big hole in us too.  We have become unaccustomed to being only our own person and it takes effort to locate and exert those long unused parts of us.

So, I can  only say to you Write, hang in there, I am proud of you that you are so aware and are moving toward health and sanity.  Be patient, it takes TIME and sometimes it's VERY hard.  It has only been a year since I left and I have regained much of myself, but I still see how much more there is to go.  The BIG difference is that NOW I embrace it.

For Sjkravill, you KNOW that I worry about you !!!  I am glad that you continue to post and pay attention.  I hope that your schoolwork is successful too !!
 
And to Lynn, if you happen to read this, how are you doing ??  I know how baffling it can be when you've just left.  Drop a line, if you feel like sharing.

Anonymous:
I agree, Gingerpeach, you cannot seperate them from their narcissism.  There is no "real" or "good" person they can turn into if they only "got it".  Personality disorders are wrapped around and all through their psyche, they cannot be seperated from it.  There is no one better inside, they are their disorder.

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