Author Topic: Need advice about incest confrontation . . .  (Read 5430 times)

Survivor

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« on: April 26, 2004, 04:09:23 PM »
Hello everyone,

I need some help . . . my husband doesn't know whether to confront his ex-wife (a very controlling narcissist) about his son's behavior.  We think he's been molested by her.  Here's the story:

My husband's ex-wife was molested by her own father (and so were some of her sisters).  She is very hard to get along with and has tried to poison the kid's minds against us (I was used to this behavior since my mother is a narcissist).  The problem is with his son.  We have noticed for a long time that something is not right with him . . . he seems very, very sad and angry.  He is almost 16 now, but when he was younger he would constantly talk about his "private parts" and tell us his mom was "hot".  :shock:   He used to ask me if I had seen his father's penis (my husband) and also asked me if I had ever had sex with his dad.  :shock: His sister also told us he watched porno films at home with friends (mind you he was around 10 or 11).  :shock: She also said he ran around the house with a "boner"  :shock:   Since I have two daughters and no sons, I wasn't sure if a child that age could even accomplish this feat, but my girlfriend said yes.  Two years ago his aunt (his mother's sister) called my husband to complain about the behavior of his children while they were visiting their grandmother in another state.  She was worried that my husband didn't know how they were acting and was also very concerned that my step-son had taken her two little boys into the bedroom and shut the door.  She didn't realize they were in there for some time and when she swung the door open, things were "weird" and they were under the covers.  She was very upset.  Needless to say, my husband and I cried a lot and prayed a lot for his son.  We felt it would be a futile attempt to confront his ex since she has control over the children and would try to make life even harder for them and for us.  There were 2-3 years where we didn't see his kids at all because of their mother's control.  It wasn't worth the constant turmoil.

His son was just here this past week end (because he wants my husband to buy him a car) and my husband feels it is time to say something.  He just doesn't know how to go about the confrontation and neither do I.  We don't know if his son will be "relieved" someone stepped in to help or if he will vehemently deny anything and side with his mother since he lives with her.  I think he will side with her, but at the same time, I can't see not sticking up for the boy.  I feel it is such a dilema!  I want his son to feel like someone cares about him, but he is really hooked into his mother.  She has a lot of power over him.  He also told me, when he was younger, that he and his mother stayed in bed all day (under the covers) watching movies.  :?:

His daughter is in the Navy now and not at home, so he thought of calling her.  However, we still don't know how "hooked in" she is with her mother.  She seems nicer and seems to have changed, but we're not sure if she's just older and knows how to "play the game" to get what she wants or if she truly sees her mother's ways.  She always acted just like her mother when she was younger. She was very mean and didn't come to visit very often.  Her mother was obviously pulling her strings.  We're just not sure if she's really changed or is manipulating like her mom.  Boot camp seemed to have knocked a little of it out of her. :lol:

If anyone has any ideas on how my husband should go about this, please let me know.  We know if he just talks to his son alone he will tell his mother and all hell will break loose.  

Thanks so much for your help!!

Survivor :mrgreen:

Wildflower

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2004, 04:49:06 PM »
Hi Survivor,

Gosh, that seems like a tough situation! :?   I don't really have an answer for you, but I was wondering if you could bring in a therapist who might?  Go with the fact that he's acting out (seems hard to argue), and then let the therapist get at why he's acting out?

Does your step-son stay with you long enough to be able to do this?  I get the impression that he lives with his mom.

Good luck!!
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2004, 08:07:00 PM »
My advice is not to confront the boy about incest. He will deny everything and then where will you be? Maybe you and your husband can see a therapist, tell him/her the situation, and get some advice on what steps would be most effective. This situation takes some preparative groundwork in my view.

bunny

rosencrantz

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2004, 08:12:49 PM »
Hello Survivor

I didn't understand what a 'boner' is but a child watching porno movies at 10 - no way!  It certainly sounds as tho someone has messed up this kid BUT he's nearly an adult now.  What would be the point in 'confronting' him.  I can only imagine that shame quickly followed by anger would be the result.  And then everyone loses.  'Where were you when I needed you' would probably compete in his mind  with 'I got mom and you didn't (so you're probably only jealous anyway)!!' even if only at a deeply unconscious level.  

To the mother the message woud be 'you screwed up my son' and to the son 'you are screwed up'.  Not palatable messages.  And where's the father's 'mea culpa'?  He'll need  to find the humility to be part of the problem if he wants to be part of the solution.  (I'm talking in general terms here!!!)

I wonder if you could just 'pick up the edges' of this scary, fragile hot potato???

Would it be possible to approach it from the point of view of relationships with parents generally?  Find out how he feels about home, his mother, life, girls, boys...with very open questions and non-threatening body language.  (Be cool!).  Sounds a bit as tho his future could be like tokyojim's friend.  

The other thing is to find out more, much much more, from a therapist, a specialist in this area. Really know what you are talking about and the pain that might be there and how you can help, what resources are available, if everything gets opened up.  

Little boys can 'act out' and it's one of the signals for schools to look out for re abuse.  But, from my experience, little boys can act out just because they are little boys - as well as from picking up things from other children who have been abused.  My son has shocked me on a couple of occasions.  I reacted quite strongly and I'm glad in retrospect that I did.  I wouldn't have wished to embarrass him but I made it clear what's right and what's not!  But minor things are just (also rightly, I think) ignored.

Your husband could always say to your step-son "Son, if you ever feel that my leaving your mother screwed you up, I'm ready and willing to pay for your therapy.!!!"  Or make it available to him now simply because he seems to sad and angry.  (I'm not suggesting it was him leaving that 'screwed him up', it's just a safe way of making something available without 'shaming and blaming' - which rattles the best of us!!)

Personally (but that's just me!) I wouldn't give him a car at 16 (well here in the UK, the death statistics for young male drivers are such that my distractable son won't be driving until he's at least 25!!!) and save the money for the therapy instead!!!

Just one final thought : People can be happy even tho they are 'screwed up' (ie not living 'the norm') if they have what they need!!!  
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Survivor

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Thanks!
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2004, 09:34:57 AM »
Rosencrantz wrote:
Quote
I didn't understand what a 'boner' is


It is an "erection" . . . I couldn't believe this! :shock:

My husband has always tried to be there for his kids, but having a Narcissist ex-wife, he had lost all control (they live with her in another state).  It did not matter what he tried to do - she would manipulate, manipulate, manipulate those kids into believing her!  Exhausted, my husband just gave up the fight.  I am not a quitter, but I agreed with him!  Since I cut my own mother off years ago and his ex is just like her, I saw no point in fighting against her . . . too exhausting!

My husband has tried for the last two years to re-connect with his kids.  It has gone well with his daughter (who is out of her mother's house now and living in yet another state).  However, the son shows signs of severe abuse.  

Rosencrantz wrote:

Quote
'Where were you when I needed you' would probably compete in his mind with 'I got mom and you didn't (so you're probably only jealous anyway)!!' even if only at a deeply unconscious level.


I have always agreed with what you said above.  It's like this boy is the "man" in his mother's life.  I always called him the "golden child" because he never got punished for anything by her.  When he came to our house it was always a full week end of "correcting him" and "making him mind" which ended with him saying my husband was mean.  It also gave fuel for his mother to say my husband was "bad" and "mean".  Since he wasn't with us enough, it was a futile attempt to correct him and make it stick.

Quote
My advice is not to confront the boy about incest. He will deny everything and then where will you be? Maybe you and your husband can see a therapist, tell him/her the situation, and get some advice on what steps would be most effective. This situation takes some preparative groundwork in my view.

bunny


I also agree with you Bunny.  I know deep down he will deny it and we are certainly not trained to talk to him . . . he needs professional help and we do too in dealing with him!  Thanks!

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Does your step-son stay with you long enough to be able to do this? I get the impression that he lives with his mom.

Good luck!!
Wildflower


He only visits every 3-4 months and stays for two days.  Yes, he lives with his controlling mother!  She even calls here when he comes to visit for two days . . . she can't stand him being here.

I appreciate your input.  We have decided not to confront him at this point.  We are just worried about his well being and about him continuing to be abused.  We wish we could get some help for him, but his mother would never allow it.  

Thanks!

Survivor

rosencrantz

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2004, 09:44:56 AM »
Little boys can get erections from an early age.  It's not odd or unusual.  It just feels nice or funny or interesting.

Oh dear - I've just been flooded with a memory of something I saw once.  Was I seeing abuse?  I don't want to think about this.  It was in someone else's home in another country.  Anyway, the nanny was laughing about the baby's 'hardon', she 'tickled' him into it so I guess the propensity is there from birth.

Much more amusing : lethal things those little 'johns' - especially when you're trying to change a nappy and you get the full force of a wee straight in the eye!!!  :wink:
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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Re: Thanks!
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2004, 07:15:28 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Survivor
Rosencrantz wrote:
Quote
I didn't understand what a 'boner' is


It is an "erection" . . . I couldn't believe this! :shock:


When I was growing up  'a boner' was a guy who worked at the abbatoir!! :D  :D hahahahahhah
Words change with the times, hey? Like I was always such a happy and 'gay' child.

CG

Ishana

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Need advice about incest confrontation . . .
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2004, 07:31:16 PM »
I agree with Bunny and the rest...this situation calls for professional input and support, for more reasons than possible sexual abuse.  It seems to me that whether or not there has been sexual abuse there has been manipulation, control and emotional abuse.  Those are reasons alone to seek outside help.

Good luck.  Your stepson is lucky to have people in his life who are concerned enough to try to help him figure things out.

Ishana