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inspired by the "sigh sigh sigh" thread

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Karin:
Hi Sjkravill,
You're bedtime story brought back painful memories for me.

I tried to be the 'therapist' to my N our whole married life but I couldn't re-train him. Not because I 'failed' but because he didn't want to be retrained.
Couldn't, wouldn't, it doesn't matter, he didn't. He went to therapy, he told me all the right words ('I'm trying..') and I watched for his actions to  change to match his words. Nothing really changed.
 
We have been separated now for nearly 2 years, and I did love him. What I didn't love was his disrespect for me.

Those bedtime conversations are incredibly stressful, I didn't realise how much so until I read your post and was reminded.
Don't feel guilty sjkravill, I can tell that your instincts are serving you well. You'll see that one day.
Best wishes to you,
Karin.

sjkravill:
Thank you for your support...

Karin, I am so glad you said that it was not because you had failed.  THat is something I really struggle with.  I think to myself that I must be able to turn this around.  If I can't do it, I will have failed.  If I fail at this will I continue to fail?  Or this is the way it is because I have failed....  I forget that he came to me like this.  I forget that he is responsible for his own behavior. The line between his responsiblity and mine is so clouded for me.

If one does still love N, and the redeeming qualities of the relationship, (things other than the blatant disrespect) one can live in a relationship, one day at a time.

The question I struggle with is decisions for the long term.  
How do I know where this will go?  Is this (me setting and him respecting boundries) just a temproary growing pain for both of us?  Is it/can it/ or will  it change for the better?  How severely it will damage me to stay?  How will it help or hurt him if I don't stay?
 Strangely, I am different now than I was when I entered into this relationship.  I am less self-assured, less adventurous, less ambitous, more exhausted and bitter.  When I look back I can remember how the damage took place.  But I don't validate it as it is happening.  I try to deflect it, but some seeps through.  Can I stop it from seeping through?
How much is about his mistreatment, and how much of this is about my incompetence?  Does the answer to that matter? Can I heal with-in this relationship enough to stay and make it productive?

Well, enough of 20 questions for now...  Thanks for listening.  As always, I appreciate your wisdom.

Anonymous:
Hi sjkravill --

Please take the following comments with a grain of salt, because I have not had to live with an N partner and so don't feel very qualified to  comment on your situation.

I just wanted to say that several of the things you mention in your posts concern me. One is his comment:


--- Quote ---N: Don't use that reflective listening crap with me.
--- End quote ---


This comment to me sounds as though his acceptance of your efforts to change your relationship and how you communicate is fake -- that in reality he thinks it's all crap.


--- Quote ---You take longer to heal than anyone I know.
--- End quote ---


This sounds as though he thinks the problem is with you, not him.


--- Quote ---I don't know how much longer I can do this.
--- End quote ---


By "this", he may have meant being celibate, but it also suggests that he sees the changes you are trying to bring about in your relationship with him as temporary -- something that he has to tolerate for now but eventually will be able to abandon.


--- Quote ---Strangely, I am different now than I was when I entered into this relationship. I am less self-assured, less adventurous, less ambitous, more exhausted and bitter.
--- End quote ---


This really concerns me, because it sounds as though the relationship is not just unfulfilling for you, but is actively damaging to you, and the longer it goes on the more damaged you will become.


--- Quote ---I think to myself that I must be able to turn this around. If I can't do it, I will have failed. If I fail at this will I continue to fail? Or this is the way it is because I have failed.... I forget that he came to me like this. I forget that he is responsible for his own behavior. The line between his responsiblity and mine is so clouded for me.
--- End quote ---


A relationship is never just the responsibility of one person, and if a relationship ends, it's not necessarily a failure. In fact, if the relationship is causing you to become less self-assured, less adventurous, less ambitous, and more exhausted and bitter, then can you consider the possibility that ending the relationship would actually be a success for you because it would be a victory for self-preservation?

I offer these comments only as food for thought -- feel free to ignore them.

Guest

Anonymous:
Sjkravill, for me, that 'failure' thing was a direct link back to the expectations of my parents for my marraige to never end up in divorce.  Divorce was a dirty word and anybody that was divorced was seen as inferior. So I believed that I 'would' be a failure/inferior if I left the marriage, because marriage is sacred, right?
Perhaps it's others expectations of you also that would make you believe you have failed?

Guest is right, how can you be a failure if you do something for your own survival? Do you need to let him destroy you in order to prove that you haven't failed?
He has failed you in that you now feel "less self-assured, less adventurous, less ambitious, more exhausted and bitter". What happened to his end of the marriage vows?
By his comments, he doesn't seem to feel any responsibility for you other than getting what he needs out of you to make his life pleasant.

You are not incompetent sjkravill, you are a feeling, caring, concerned and careful person. You are trying to do the right thing for yourself and your husband, but ultimately, you're entitled to what you want out of life too.  

Karin.

sjkravill:
Wow!  Thank you both for your insight...

Clearly now, as it was not clear a few days ago, when he said
"Don't use that reflective listening crap with me"
should have told me that he was not interested in an adult conversation or a solution to the problem that would honor both of us.
Like a little boy, he just wanted to pitch a fit, mabye it would get him what he wanted.  When it didn't work he used thinly vailed guilt trips, threats and coercion, so sweetly demonstrated to him by his own father.

These conversations send me reeling.  Even if we are "making nice"  They lessen my overall trust and closeness with him... I am not sure if that can be or should be recovered.

Yes, I think it is the expectations of my family and community that Divorce = failure...  And I have ALWAYS had truble with the concept of failure.  One part of being voiceless for me was always doing everything right.  As to not attract any negative attention.  Everyone has such high expectations  of me.  It is very difficult to have the courage to struggle against such expectations.

I guess, if I look at the way you suggest, it doesn't matter whose fault it is... It matters that I do what I have to do in order to live well.  It doesn't matter if it is my incompetence.  If I do my best by him, what else can I do? Even if my best was perfect, he still has a choice in the matter. And it is extremely helpful when others help me to recognize that he has forsaken his vow in not respecting me.      

The part that I always forget is, what did happen to his end of the bargin?
While he says he is "trying" for me, actions always speak louder than words.  And his actions say that he has no intention of doing anything but alternating between sweet and nasty until he gets what he want.

As always, thanks for helping me process this...
Peace, sjkravilll

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