Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?

[BonesMS]

 

Just checking in.

[Hopalong]

Oh, wow.
How totally blindingly frustrating.

I really feel for you, Bones.

I hope you will NOT give up in spite of the bureaucrats.

It's such a dance...to learn the balance of ASSERTIVENESS (without showing anger) and SWEET TALKING it takes to wake up someone who's either asleep in the system or using it to act out power needs.

DON'T give up. Keep looking for advocates for yourself...you DO deserve chances.

hugs
Hops

[BonesMS]

Oh, wow.
How totally blindingly frustrating.

I really feel for you, Bones.

I hope you will NOT give up in spite of the bureaucrats.

It's such a dance...to learn the balance of ASSERTIVENESS (without showing anger) and SWEET TALKING it takes to wake up someone who's either asleep in the system or using it to act out power needs.

DON'T give up. Keep looking for advocates for yourself...you DO deserve chances.

hugs
Hops

Thanks, Hops!

I haven't had the chance to check my e-mail yet today to see if I have gotten a response from Voc. Rehab.  I've been busy from early morning to mid-afternoon volunteering in one disaster drill scenario and will be heading out the door shortly to complete a disaster-related training at a different facility.  I'll describe the experiences in more detail later after I've had a chance to rest and recuperate.  Definitely great learning experiences!

[BonesMS]

After sending my last e-mail to the Voc. Rehab. supervisor, asking that I be re-assigned to a different counselor because my current counselor and I are NOT getting along, (she simply WILL NOT HEAR ME), I got an e-mail response from the supervisor yesterday evening.  The supervisor asked me to contact her about either continuing with the current counselor "because she is an 'expert' with the program" I just completed or if I wanted to be re-assigned to a different counselor without a guarantee of a timely appointment.  (I haven't been getting timely appointments all along and the few appointments I have had made me feel as if I was talking to a brick wall!)  I wrote back to the supervisor that I want to be RE-ASSIGNED TO A DIFFERENT COUNSELOR!  (After that last, obnoxious, phone call from my current counselor, I do NOT trust her to have my best interests at heart while my taxes pay her salary!)

Am I making sense?

Bones

[Guest]

Yes Bones!

[BonesMS]

Yes Bones!

Thanks, Guest!

[BonesMS]

I sent a response to the supervisor on Thursday night and thought she should have read it by Friday.  I haven't heard back yet.

Bones

[BonesMS]

Another thought hit my brain regarding my frustration with Voc. Rehab.

Way back, when I was working at one facility, I had been given an extensive caseload even though I had NO prior experience!  I compared that situation with what V.R. Counselor Number One is doing...or attempting to do.

Hypothetically..........suppose I was still working with my extensive caseload and I had to take an extended leave due to my birth defects flaring up.  Common sense tells me that my caseload would need to be re-assigned to someone else as my clients' lives don't automatically go "on hold" because my medical issues are flaring up.  Their lives are separate from mine and their lives will still continue to evolve without any input from me.  That is the way life is supposed to happen.  Then, hypothetically, once the doctor determines that I am healthy enough to resume that position with my extensive caseload....common sense tells me that I need to meet with each client, face to face, ASK QUESTIONS about what has been going on with their lives during my absence, LISTEN TO WHAT MY CLIENTS ARE TELLING ME, paraphrase to them what I think I heard them say, then adapt their individual treatment plans according to their information.

If I have that capability, why can't V.R. Counselor Number One have that capability?  Unless she is an N??????

Is this logical?

Bones

[BonesMS]

 

[Hopalong]

Hi Bones,
I don't think it's logical to assume she is "an N", necessarily...

But I think the way you describe how responsibly and appropriately you would have responded to this situation were you in her shoes...is wonderful. You are describing adult, appropriate, effective, mature standards for performing that job.

I wish she'd had them. It has huge consequences for you and for others in similar situations.

I think some people, especially in demanding service public sector jobs...just get burned out. So exhausted from the insanely elaborate demands of the bureaucracy -- and the barriers the bureaucracy places between them and their beginning desires to do good, be competent, make a difference... that those balanced, mature, effective and efficient approaches are defeated nearly out of the gate. And some, like in any job, may not be as smart or dedicated as others. Some who start with solid ideals get twisted by the eternal frustration that the dense fields of paperwork and all that present such huge obstacles to actually helping. They may be co-opted and begin to identify with the bureaucracy itself, rather than the higher purpose of the organization.

Don't give up, Bones...keep advocating for your dreams. And don't take it personally.

If I could advise one thing, it'd be to try to approach these bureaucracy gatekeepers by always starting by verbally, and genuinely (with practice, it gets natural) stating something to them about an underlying positive. Sounds hokey, but I find that things go better when I pause, get centered, and start a conversation by saying something like, "I really appreciate the work that you're doing and I imagine your workload is just overwhelming. Thank you for helping me. I sincerely appreciate it." ... or ... "I'm sorry to ask you to explain this over again, but I find I need to get each step really clear. Is it okay if I say back to you, the sequence of what steps I need to take next? Then you can clarify anything I might be missing."

In the middle of a conversation like that I'll pause and touch on my "seeing them" as people again -- saying something like, "I really appreciate your patience." Over time those kinds of responses become habits that seem to make things work better. Not magic and not a panacea but it sure makes things feel better. THAT much I can control...my own demeanor, what I convey.

It's not magic and it's not manipulation...but from gov't workers to nursing home staff, I've found a difference.

Also, in your shoes, I'd never hesitate to calmly mention the Asperger's (even if they have that on paper) and explain briefly how that may mean a little awkwardness in communication. I don't know which sort of description would be handiest but whatever would help them NOT respond with annoyance, but with more understanding.

"I have Aspergers and that means you may notice my responses are a little _____ , and I hope you'll know I'm listening. I though that might help to mention." Or something like that that feels comfortable to you.

(Somebody in this system will be able to do a good job working with you and you DESERVE to find him or her and don't don't don't give up! Those golden gems or wonderful calm folks who know how to hang in and keep finding a way to thread through the barriers to the help you need, they're in there, too.)

Those are probably overwritten (my major) but I hope helpful. Keep what is and junk the rest!

love to you, Bones...

Hops

[BonesMS]

Thanks, Hops.

She is aware of the Asperger's but refuses to accept the possibility that adults can have it.  She seems to believe that only children have it and should outgrow it.  Neurological differences from birth don't work that way!

Bones

[BonesMS]

Another reason I suspect she may be an N is based on her reaction to the word:  "No".

Bones

[BonesMS]

Still waiting to hear back from the supervisor.

[BonesMS]

Had an interesting development take place yesterday morning.

The instructor from the Reaching Independence through Self Employment classes called me to ask how I was progressing with the approved purchases for my business.  I told him that I am still waiting to get a letter from Voc. Rehab. and I've yet to receive a response from my counselor after the e-mails I sent since May 27th.  He was shocked that Voc. Rehab. has not followed up on any of the R.I.S.E. recommendations for over 30 days.  He told me he would be calling my Voc. Rehab. counselor to find out what is going on.  Now I'm waiting to hear back from my instructor regarding the outcome of his phone call.

Interesting..........

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

My school referred my family to the county mental health center because I was having serious struggles.  At the age of 13, I was suicidal, tried to starve myself to death, and would hide behind furniture and file cabinets.  (I realize now that a lot of my behaviors were on the autism spectrum.  Connect neurological struggles with an NWomb-Donor, who was also sexually and physically abusive, and the result is a NIGHTMARE!)  At the therapist office, she would proclaim herself and her NGC son as the poor innocents and that I needed to be locked up in a mental institution because I was the ONLY one with the problem.  This went on until one day she dragged me into the therapist's office while in the midst of a Narcissistic Rage!  The therapist spoke with me alone and I described what led up to this latest explosion from her.  Then he spoke with the NGC alone and got a similar story.  Finally, he spoke to the NWomb-Donor alone and also got a similar story albeit from HER stance that SHE was the victim and that I needed to be removed from HER house IMMEDIATELY!  Then the therapist called all three of us together.

Imagine NWomb-Donor's shock and horror when the therapist told her straight to her face...."This child is finally starting to think, feel and behave like a NORMAL 14-year-old!  GET OFF HER BACK!"  NWomb-Donor grabbed NGC by the hand and stormed out of the office, leaving me there.  She refused to go back for any more sessions and also convinced NGC he didn't need therapy either because there was nothing wrong with him!  As far as they were both concerned, the only problem they had was me and the sooner they got rid of me, the sooner their problem would be solved!  Sick?  Yes!

Hey Bones -- SHOCKING isn't it? Seeing it in "print"?

Reading your story actually turned my stomach -- because of the parallels to my forced visit to the "witch doctor" at 12... this would've been 1969. Like you, I was the "problem". Like you, I had some alone time with the doctor and she told my mom to "leave her alone"... which of course, she interpreted literally. When I tripped over this memory my first reaction was to be angry at the doctor who planted the idea and suggestion in my head, that I could put Twiggy and all her experiences/feelings away in a box. Once I had processed everything that had happened, I realized that this poor doctor - who had less than an hour with me, one time - actually did me a huge a favor; maybe even saving my life... in that she made it possible for me to cope and go on, until I could move out of my mom's house - and shortly thereafter - move to another state.

It sure wasn't the doctor's fault that it took me 40 years to get around to re-integrating that part of me... all those memories. My fear and disgust and rage were still pretty intense and difficult to "swallow" and digest, even as a mature, grown woman, when I did get around to it. It was really hard to accept that this was part of my life's history; a big part of me that I was completely unaware of for years... but when I did start to accept it, and let it become just another fact about me in the "past" - like the hexagonal granny glasses I used to wear in the 70s with hippie peasant dresses and beaded moccasins... - once I started to let this complete "being" memory fall into place for those couple of years - then all of a sudden I started to understand who I am NOW... and WHY I am the way I am. I understand that I'm never going to be able to tell my story of what happened to me, without residual anger and fear... but I'm no longer at the mercy of those emotions - they don't control me anymore... because I know what generated that level of intensity now... and I know that this intensity and what I survived are a normal, human response to that kind of treatment from anyone, much less my own mother. Despite what I was told about this same intensity making me a "problem", over & over again.

I'll bet you also lived off the scraps of validation for self, wherever and whomever they came from? My 5th grade teacher was a refugee from Romania during WWII... and she "got" what I was suffering from; she saw me change from the beginning of the school year; change from a normal kid into one who would hide in closets... and she understood that there was a reason for it, though in that day and age - where I lived - no one pried or else they believed the lies my mother told. This teacher helped me as much as she could and was behind the communication - the checking in on me - that happened from one of my 5th grade friends a couple of years ago via facebook. I guess we did read Anne Frank, that year, too... I've been trying to figure out when I read that. I was helped by people who suffered way more than I did - and yet they knew instantly what I suffered from because of their experiences.

I suppose though, one of the reasons my mom decided we had to move to another town... she knew I talked to certain people and she didn't want to have her lies exposed. And abortion was still illegal in those days - no matter how old one was.

I still say my mom drugged me - valium or whatever she had on hand; her own prescriptions - so that my memories would be fuzzy, vague and scrambled. So I would doubt myself and believe her "big lie" about what happened to me. But my ability to remember was way stronger than that, even if it only comes together in still-photos sometimes, instead of video. I hid that info - and am still hiding it, except here - although the idea of writing a book still dances in front of me, sometimes. I would REALLY need to be completely NC with bro - legally and otherwise - before I did this.

And I'd probably still be sued for slander.