Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?

[English]

Bones and HOP.  As a newby to N, I have a lot of work and thinkiing to do about boundaries.  Your posts are extremely helpful to me.  Thank you.  They are also very empowering and validating that I can have boundaries that NM can't cross.  It's my life and my right to my boundaries.  She is NOT my MOTHER-which to her means she owns me.

[Lucky]

Boundaries, a big issue. My NM has very tight and strict boundaries and o my if you can't smell where her exact boundary is. Other people however are not allowed boundaries by her. If somebody tries to put up a boundary to her, the person gets villivied.

[Ami]

I think a big part of my thinking I was BAD was that I simply wanted to be a whole person ,an independent thinking, feeling entity with boundaries.
 I think she made me think I would kill her if I became independent in this way.        Ami

[BonesMS]

Bones and HOP.  As a newby to N, I have a lot of work and thinkiing to do about boundaries.  Your posts are extremely helpful to me.  Thank you.  They are also very empowering and validating that I can have boundaries that NM can't cross.  It's my life and my right to my boundaries.  She is NOT my MOTHER-which to her means she owns me.

N's need to understand that slavery was OUTLAWED over 100 years ago!   

Bones

[BonesMS]

Boundaries, a big issue. My NM has very tight and strict boundaries and o my if you can't smell where her exact boundary is. Other people however are not allowed boundaries by her. If somebody tries to put up a boundary to her, the person gets villivied.

That's the kind of cr*p I constantly got from NFOO, after I moved into my own place, which finally led to my going NC with all of them!  I got sick and tired of their nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones

[BonesMS]

I think a big part of my thinking I was BAD was that I simply wanted to be a whole person ,an independent thinking, feeling entity with boundaries.
 I think she made me think I would kill her if I became independent in this way.        Ami

Sounds like she wanted to FORCE you to become sick and dependent on HER so that she could play puppet-master and pull your strings according to HER whims!!!!  (N's have a SICK and TWISTED way of thinking!   )

Bones

[cgm1028]

Bones - you said it. 

It never ceases to amaze me that what they want for themselves, such as respect, they never think that anyone else has the same rights.

[BonesMS]

Bones - you said it. 

It never ceases to amaze me that what they want for themselves, such as respect, they never think that anyone else has the same rights.

EXACTLY!!!!  It NEVER occurs to them that R-E-S-P-E-C-T is a TWO-WAY STREET!!!!  If they WANT RESPECT, then they have to EARN RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones

[bearwithme]

Bones - you said it. 

It never ceases to amaze me that what they want for themselves, such as respect, they never think that anyone else has the same rights.

EXACTLY!!!!  It NEVER occurs to them that R-E-S-P-E-C-T is a TWO-WAY STREET!!!!  If they WANT RESPECT, then they have to EARN RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones

This is so interesting to me.  The N's don't know what respect is so they can't earn it.  My Nmom is clueless, so I think. I am very confused about N's boundaries, or lack thereof, and their inappropriate behavior...what's the difference?  Is one a calculating and conniving behavior to get their needs met and the other is it just utter cluelessness, almost an ignorance???  I didn't want to hijack your thread about that so I started a new topic.

[BonesMS]

Bones - you said it. 

It never ceases to amaze me that what they want for themselves, such as respect, they never think that anyone else has the same rights.

EXACTLY!!!!  It NEVER occurs to them that R-E-S-P-E-C-T is a TWO-WAY STREET!!!!  If they WANT RESPECT, then they have to EARN RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bones

This is so interesting to me.  The N's don't know what respect is so they can't earn it.  My Nmom is clueless, so I think. I am very confused about N's boundaries, or lack thereof, and their inappropriate behavior...what's the difference?  Is one a calculating and conniving behavior to get their needs met and the other is it just utter cluelessness, almost an ignorance???  I didn't want to hijack your thread about that so I started a new topic.

Oh, they know EXACTLY what they are doing!!!!  They just DON'T CARE how it impacts others!  I've encountered some N's who have this attitude of "ABSOLUTE ENTITLEMENT" and get NASTY when they are told "N-O" to their DEMANDS!

Bones

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I agree ... it's not narcissism if you are truly clueless. People on the autism spectrum (such as Asperger's disorder) often really are clueless, and they also have trouble taking other people's perspectives. But, if somebody is on the autism spectrum, even if you aren't familiar with the disorders ... you can tell that this person is "odd" and that perhaps they don't understand the consequences of their behaviors. On the other hand, somebody that is narcissistic can take other people's perspectives well enough to manipulate. They are just lacking in feeling for the other person. They can totally suck you into thinking they are kind, charming, etc., and then WHAM, sucker-punch you. A clueless person (like in the autism spectrum) can't be that good at knowing how to act to suck you in.

[BonesMS]

I agree ... it's not narcissism if you are truly clueless. People on the autism spectrum (such as Asperger's disorder) often really are clueless, and they also have trouble taking other people's perspectives. But, if somebody is on the autism spectrum, even if you aren't familiar with the disorders ... you can tell that this person is "odd" and that perhaps they don't understand the consequences of their behaviors. On the other hand, somebody that is narcissistic can take other people's perspectives well enough to manipulate. They are just lacking in feeling for the other person. They can totally suck you into thinking they are kind, charming, etc., and then WHAM, sucker-punch you. A clueless person (like in the autism spectrum) can't be that good at knowing how to act to suck you in.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Bones

[BonesMS]

And N's seem to have this FRUSTRATING attitude of:

"Boundaries?  You don't need no stinking boundaries!  I OWN YOU!!!!"   

Bones

[BonesMS]

N's are FRUSTRATING!!!!!

Bones

[BonesMS]

During this past weekend, I found myself dealing with two N's in our group.  One of them is NOTORIOUSLY LATE alot of the time!  He knew that we were supposed to meet up in the hotel lobby at 4:30 PM to decide where to go for dinner.  Four of us were there, waiting and hungry after a long drive, and aware that we needed to get to the Franklin Institute by a certain time to see the Exhibit AND the IMAX movie.  The rest of the group were NOWHERE in sight!

When one of us called the other half of the group, we learned they were STILL ON THE ROAD because the N couldn't be bothered to GET UP OUT OF BED like everyone else!!!!  The tardy party were informed that we were heading to the Hard Rock Cafe as we were hungry and we would see them at the Franklin Institute later on.

At the Hard Rock Cafe, getting dinner, the tardy party managed to arrive and ordered dinner as well.  The wait staff was quick in getting everything on the table so we managed to finish dinner at roughly the same time.  As we were preparing to head out to catch a cab to the Franklin, the N INSISTED that HE WANTED DESSERT and EXPECTED EVERYONE TO WAIT FOR HIM!!!!!!  He was reminded that we have to catch a cab, go across town, find our way into the Franklin Institute, find where we need to get the necessary information AND the tickets for BOTH the Exhibit AND the movie!  We also pointed out that they were NOT going to delay the movie for HIM!  He refused to budge and told the waiter to bring him HIS DESSERT, then looked at us EXPECTING us to sit back down and WAIT FOR HIM!  I looked at the group and said:  "Let's go!" and proceeded out the door!  The ones I arrived with also left the restaurant and we walked back to the cab-stand in front of the hotel.  (I later learned that the N got REAL FLUSTERED when we voted with our feet regarding his behavior!)

At the Exhibit, we had the chance to do a photo-op on the Enterprise-D bridge.  I got into the Captain's chair, (which is REALLY COMFORTABLE), and relaxed.  The other N in our group commented, "You need to get up!  Mr. N is the CAPTAIN!"  I looked at both N's, remembering how one screwed up the reservations and VIP passes while the other N tried to force all of us to be late so HE could have dessert, (along with getting out of bed late that morning, messing with everyone's schedules), and I thought to myself, "NO!  I ain't getting up for an N!  He snoozes, he loses!"  I stayed put!

Bones