Author Topic: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?  (Read 4287 times)

isittoolate

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Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« on: August 24, 2007, 06:23:17 PM »
I know I am out of the general age group, so am wondering in the title of my thread!

thank you
Izzy

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dandylife

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 07:13:27 PM »
No but my daughter (17) is in a relationship with a young man of questionable ethics and character. I haven't figured him out yet, so I don't know, but I suspect some dark things about him.

What I do know is....

He ran away from home at 14. Traveled the country to go to rock concerts - Marilyn Manson and the like. Probably 100's.

Left after his girlfriend at the time shot and killed herself in front of him.

His dad beat him until the day he punched his dad in the face and broke his nose.

His dad took him to a psychiatric hospital and left him there for 3 months.

He writes - under a pseudonym - about everything from sex, death, politics, celebrities, you name it. He's poetic, artistic, very deep, cerebral, if you will, but dark and nasty and deathly at times.

After he met my daughter, I slowly had these things revealed to me...and then she was in love with him and they had a huge connection, a bond. I have done what I can to help him/them - I took him to get a GED, encouraged him to get a promotion at work, helped pay rent, helped him get a drivers license, then a car, am helping him get his teeth fixed - he has no dental insurance.

I am torn. I feel like this poor guy had no mother to speak of - no one to take care of him and get him the basic necesseties of life - no one to make him feel important in this world. But he also shows signs of obliviousness to others - litters his coffee cups all over, laughs at handicapped people. I stop him in his tracks when he does this and make him think.

I don't have an illusion I'll make him a great guy - but I do want him to feel he's a human being capable of greatness.

I am full of hope.

Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

isittoolate

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 07:58:38 PM »
hi dandylife
I could be terribly wrong, but if he is questionable, have her dump him. but.....................if you feel what you are going is making a better person of him, okay, however, what still lies beneath? You are familar with an N? I wasn't AT ALL when my daughter was 19 and met one. What havoc he has wrecked on our lives.

I am in the midst of writing something to my daughter, as we haven't corresponded in quite some time.

I've had my own problem growing up and am seeing more and more of how a "healthy' life can be lived. What I see now is that all feelings must be addressed or they will sink inside and be hidden forever as emotions unresovled.

I believe this happened to me from my parent s and that I was not prepared to be a mother myself, especially a single mother.

Izzy
=============================
I ought never been born. But I was. And likely as a baby, I was left to cry, whether hungry, wet, just needing comfort. This is only a guess but there were other children who needed the same. I was having feelings I was too young to understand, and to express, except for crying. The unfulfilled feelings settled inside me as negative emotions.
The growing into a toddler, the going to school and times that I do remember, I had feelings but I never asked what to do. I kept the feelings inside and they piled up with all the other negative emotions. I was not important.
I was beaten. I was taunted and ridiculed. I was laughed at, instigated by my own father. My mother sat quietly on the sidelines.
I became a teenage and knew that no one would ever love me. All my feelings now were repressed and turned inward to become part of that big block of emotions.
Any thoughts I had, I kept to myself, even when I was 17 and my sister was being married. Somehow I knew it was wrong for her, but I said nothing. It was wrong for her. Another sister had expressed the same belief.
I finished school and moved to the city to work and I took all my cues from other people, the girls I worked with, my roommate, movies I saw, and a book of etiquette by Emily Post. I did everything and appeared ‘Normal’ but inside I was in pain and I hurt so badly, yet never knew what was wrong. By 19 I wanted to be dead. My belief though is that I wanted that person to die yet I would live and be ’normal’.

I should never have become a Mother.   I am now 68 and I know that I have not expressed my feelings as they occurred. Had I done so from the moment I could speak, there might not have been the pile of unresolved emotions? The little baby girl I had, I loved to no end. I was considered by all my newfound friends, all new mothers, that I was the best mother, because my daughter was the best little girl.
I did everything for her, bathing, changing, fresh air, feeding, naps, later on trips to the park, always in clean clothing and well fed, and she had all the other children from the group to play with as they all grew.
Skipping the part about leaving her father, which must have put abandonment issues into her, we lived on our own and I worked. I was able to fulfill her every need, answer her every question, and love her with all my heart.
THEN
I was in a car accident that disabled me for life. I was notr counseled through this disaster, for myself or for my daughter and after a year I came home from the hospital to a new apartment and resumed my motherhood. Meanwhile for that year, she had lived and moved from one place to another four times, counting our new setup. I have no idea if she had questions, feelings, that she asked and /or if they were dealt with properly. If they weren’t, then she would feel abandonment now from her mother. She had a lot to deal with in her first 6 years and was anything REALLY explained to her?

I returned in a wheelchair and I felt that she would no longer love me/know me. In hindsight, we did many things together, but it wasn’t the same as before.  I didn’t ‘send her away’ but I saw to it she had activities with children her own age, school, bible camp, baton lesson, gymnastics, COR weeks, swimming lessons. I was at home a lot when she did these activities and was alone. She was reaching the age whereby she must have had feelings to express. Was I not there???? Was I following my own upbringing???? Did I not hear?????? She had her chores; her homework, her music (violin), her friends to visit and overnight, or she went there for overnight. Am I somehow now remembering there was more I ought to have done but didn’t know? Is it coming from SRT Therapy, at age 68??  I am feeling ill. At least it is a feeling!
At her age 16, I suggested it was work time, summer jobs, and make money, manage it and she did, in Barrie for3 years, would invite me to her chicken restaurant. But University loomed and her leaving home. I was trying to prepare….. this would be the most difficult thing for me.
When she met her future husband, I had a gut instinct that something was wrong. Her demeanour changed toward me, even more than before.  He seemed too good to be true. He was already a failure and I didn’t know. She was hung up and Charles and Diana, 19 and 31, a fairy tale romance. Now here she was at 19 and Gus 30—and rich, 3 houses, $35,000.00/yr as a firefighter, and he had changed his name. (Those are the things I remember from her initial telling) something was wrong. If he were that rich, he’d have been snagged by now. Why did he change his name because he didn’t want to be the second youngest of 10 children….he wanted to be Number One of his own dynasty: all thoughts of mine, all feelings that I never was able to express. All feelings that dropped onto that overly large block of jumbled emotions that I carried with me for almost 45 years. I absolutely had NO idea that I was a rolling emotional bomb, and should all the feelings become attached to the emotions, I was explode!


...............that's as far as I have written... to be edited..

what says anyone? I am so sad about our estrangement!

Izzy


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« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 08:07:45 PM by isittoolate »

Ami

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 08:17:25 PM »
Dear Izzy,
  i am so, so so sorry for all the pain that you have gone through. You have enough pain and betrayal for 10 lifetimes.
  I think that your feeling"Ill" is a sign of feelings coming to the surface.
   Whatever feelings come up  --- you may feel sick, dizzy, crazy,unglued, disintegrating   BUT they will not  KILL you.
   Keep sharing and writing and letting other people help you by relating that they have gone through it, too.
  Ii have gotten to another side,now. I have reached a level where I feel some peace and connectedness with myself. I feel some of the same "knowings" about life that I lost( at 14). I am getting a sense of being "smarter" about life -- that I can see things with MY OWN eyes-- not my mothers.
   I am not 'healed" ,but I can see that all my suffering was for something good-.
     I believe that the Bible promises us freedom from bondage IF we can face the truth -- about everything.
   It is a hard journey-- but being "screwed up" ain't that great either                        Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

dandylife

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 08:28:46 PM »
Izzy,
You wrote, "If he is questionable, have her dump him."

I don't believe in this kind of control over another human being. I believe that this kind of control damaged me.

Yes, she is young. But she is quite old enough to decide what she wants in her own life. He does not affect my life except when he "needs" something and asks. He does not come to my house, he does not impose on my life in any way on a daily basis.

There are times a parent needs to intervene. "You may not eat crayons."

But once they are of a certain age, they are acting upon all the things you have taught them.......and you are reaping your own "rewards" from their actions.

Plus, they need to learn consequences. If I step in and don't allow her to experience a certain thing, will she learn the lesson?

Obviously there are answers for certain things. Is she doing drugs? No Drinking? NO Is he physically hurting her? NO

I do struggle with the answers.

But, as I read your story, Izzy, I see HIM in it, too. Abandoned by his own family, treated badly, forced to grow up at a too young age. What if everyone in life abadoned, turned away from you because you are damaged? I don't want my daughter in an unhealthy relationship but I also don't want to be an ignorant, non-feeling beeyotch who was just another cog in the wheel of a person who was hurt and treated like sh*$. You know?

Maybe I'm too empathetic. Maybe this is just the sort of thing that I should be aware of - a target on my own back for N-istic people? I don't know. But I care. For some reason I care. I do see some kind of diamond in the rough. I hope that vision is clear.

You seem to be struggling with self-blame for what your daughter put herself through. Remember, you didn't find this man. SHE DID. You didn't meet, talk, flirt with him. SHE DID. You didn't DECIDE to marry him. SHE DID. Please remember that. She is responsible for her own choices. There is a boundary between you and your daughter. Respect that. She has her own choices. Just because you are her mother, does not make you responsible for her decisions.

Love,

Dandylife

((((((Izzy)))))))
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

changing

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 08:41:14 PM »
OH My Friend Izzy-

It is so cruel to love someone and not be able to express the closeness that is within your heart; it is almost like a kind of mourning that has no end, no specified period of grief. I am so sorry that your bear such a heavy and hurting burden.

When your beloved daughter married an N, he would make isolating her from you a priority. Izzy, you are always so good to everyone on the board, including me. I have seen that you are a loving, sassy, big-hearted, beautiful and brilliant person- I wish that I had been fortunate enough to have had someone like you in my life when I was a child...your daughter was and is truly blessed to have you as her mother. My mother walked out and never came back- because she didn't care. You fought to be a good mother and showed your love and caring and pride in being a mother. I feel so honored to be able to correspond with you now.

Your poor daughter will see the truth in her situation. Even Diana eventually  woke up and saw the truth about Charles...

Love and lots of hugs from a member of your fan club,

Changing







isittoolate

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 09:10:08 PM »
more--unedited--

feelings become attached to the emotions, I would explode!

When he first came to meet me, he arrived in a 10-year old truck and had to buy new shoes, as she noticed when she went to the door to let him in. I cannot remember anything said during that meeting and the only excuse I have is that I felt it wasn’t true. I asked her to please not marry him, but please allow me to put her through University first and if it was love it would last. I was so shocked with her response! “I love him and we are getting married whether you like it or not and if you don’t like it you don’t have to come!”  Was I defeated?  Yes! With that remark I knew he had taken over her thinking!

For that time on I was not a part of her life! He did all the talking if there were a visit, and most of the time he needed money! But I do remember one time when he was speaking and used a word I did not understand. I interrupted to ask what it was! He roared at me. “Listen I do the talking and you do the listening. That’s the way it is!” and my daughter said nothing. Did she feel something was wrong? Like disrespect? I felt something was wrong but said nothing because she said nothing and I buried another evil retort. Watching them together, I think I saw some kind of friendship, but I saw no love. Not from either one to the other, and she began putting on weight. To me that meant she was depressed.
Then she was pregnant and I wanted to live closer to them so I could see my grandchild. I wanted to be their free sitter and see how another relationship with me and a baby would be. Well little KC was my pride and joy and he took to me above anyone else. Oh how I loved him.

They moved and I moved too and there was another grandchild, a girl. By now I was sitting them 3 days a week, 7 hours a day and I never felt closer to a child—maybe not 3ven my own as I had to go out to work and missed dome stages. When KC was 4½, this N husband of hers kicked me off ‘his’ land to never set foot on it again—it was Mother’s Day, May 11, 1991 and one day short of mages’ 2nd birthday. Father came home late then downed a come of lime and beer (I never understood that drink) really fast and we waited until he ate his hamburgers(s) before the cake. The kids were pointing at cake roses, I was this one, No I want that one, Oh this one’s pretty, I want this one—yet neither one touched a rose and father goes into a 3o min tirade at my little grandson, who slunk into his chair with tears just rolling quietly down his face and something in me ‘snapped’ yet I was quiet. I whispered, “That’s enough” to father and he hit his fist on the table, went into a tirade and I was history, ands still am.

Does my daughter have the same difficulty in speaking up at a certain feeling to rid her of a buried emotion? I don’t know, but that day I ought to have stood up for myself, regardless, that I was their grandmother, I was older, respect older people, respect me. I was there for close to 3 years watching the children and keeping them safe.

Less than a year after he kicked me out, the cabin burned down. It never would have happened if I had been there, as she went outside to help him and left the children unattended as they followed her out. He had isolated her, leaving her to work like a mule and be barefoot and pregnant, leave her education behind.
Now that I know Narcissism, I see that she was lost and I could do nothing.  I knew I had lost my grandchildren, just as I had lost my daughter, after one year away. The bonds are strong, but if no in between person helps work on them….it’s history. First her, then them.
Two years later she left him and two years after that divorced him. She picked up on her education as well as working and after some very hard work, received her university Degree, but she had lost her eldest child to the father and she has the two younger ones.

We both have lost a child.
We cannot talk. There is too much hurt to communicate properly,
But I care what happens yet I will not interfere.
I feel she cares nothing for me. There must have been something I could do, but she made her choices and I hat HIM although I try to never even think about him. He is a useless snake.



Izzy

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isittoolate

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 09:28:24 PM »
Yes Ami, enough pain for 10 lifetimes and I cannot cry.
I am only beginning to identify a feeling, and if I don’t act on it, it will become a buried emotion.
I just read the book about KC’s tragedy in the North Atlantic. There were two places that choked me but I still didn’t cry. On another thread someone said to check that and see what stops me from crying.
At 68 Maybe I’ve just had my ‘fill of it all’ and might not be able ‘to make it’

Congrats on your progress! Sounds good!

Love
Izzy


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isittoolate

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 09:33:05 PM »
hi again dandy

It appears your daughter is learning from this experience, and I will still suggest you keep a close eye on the boy.

I'm thinking that anyone raised in a dsyfunctional household can be 'dangerous company, yet maybe not. There are exceptions.

I wish you well on your project, as helping others is a great thing to do.

Love
Izzy

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isittoolate

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 09:41:43 PM »
Hi changing,

Thank you for your kind words. Yes. It’s like mourning.

And there is SO much history…..all my 68 years. I cannot make it all up. It is an awesome task.

And, as I believe, my daughter will not admit that I had warned her. That kind of admission is one that began (now) 24 years of awful things to undo. I think she sees all the truth but that, and maybe even that, but it will never be spoken. I know that!

So many people hurting so many people.

Love
Izzy


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changing

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 10:25:03 PM »
Oh Izzy-

You are truly an Angel, almost a sort of mythic heroine, imbued with a great love for her daughter and grandbabies. If I had just one person who cared about me like you do your daughter, I think that I could feel like I had a proper place in the universe...And you see, she knows that you care, you fortified her being as you raised her, she carries that within every cell. You can see that in how she picked up the pieces of her life and returned to her education. But your grandson (the eldest)- do you ever see him, or his brother and sister? I hope so-It takes a terrible kind of strength to go on despite that sort of loss.

Darling Izzy, I know that you and your daughter have trouble speaking now- perhaps the horrors of the past still haunt you both- but don't give up. It may take more time and letting go of expectations by both of you (your daughter may be brittle because she is embarrased by what you have seen). I know that you haven't been able to cry, but I am crying for you, and I am in your corner, Awesome Izzy.

Love to you,

Changing



changing

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 10:48:18 PM »
By the way Izzy, when I think of you, I think of a saucy intelligent creature who is ageless, timeless, and unique!

Love,

Changing

teartracks

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2007, 12:37:43 AM »



Hi Iz,

Changing said it just right,  I think of a saucy intelligent creature who is ageless, timeless, and unique!

Love,
tt

Hopalong

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2007, 12:55:43 AM »
Izzy,
It might stick in her chest like a magnificent black pearl,
but your daughter DOES love you. She DOES know you were right.
She DOES know she was wrong.

She has wrapped up her shame about her foolish decisions,
covered it over with a lustrous busy life.

Her emails to you are little glimpses of the light far above
on the surface.

Think of it, Izz. How much pain yet how much wisdom and
how much LIFE you have in you, and how much more you're
diving for.

Don't give up on her, or on yourself!
Don't let hope hurt you, but know you have made a TREMENDOUS
difference in her life, and just recently too.

It's okay to let it rest a while, dear, while you do this hard swimming.

Your pearl is there. At the deepest part of herself she knows your love.
She is only selfish now because she doesn't have anywhere near the
strength it would take to speak her grief for YOU, for your own losses,
because she hasn't recovered from her own.

You two are together, even when it feels parallel.
I feel very sure of that.

with love,
Hops
« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 01:54:23 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Is there anyone on Board whose 'child' married an N?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2007, 10:41:00 AM »
Dear Izzy,

I believe that your daughter cares for you so much, but that she feels very, very guilty about all that's transpired.

My suggestion is that - if you feel it and believe it - you tell your girl that there is not a shred of "I told you so" within you.

I think that bit of release would puncture the dam.

Big hugs to you... and all my love,
Hope