i need help!

[jillebean]

two weeks ago my n mil threatened to take us to court to sue for grandparents rights.  (there's no such thing in iowa)... my husband went to her house to let her know how furious and hurt he was.  i stayed in the background which was REALLY hard for me to do.  Husband was them thinking she understood that what she did was wrong and was still hinting to me and therapist that the kids would be safe seeing her as long as he was present.  i completely disagreed.  so yestersay we both went to her house to set up some initial boundaries to be followed if she were to see the kids.  all it took was me stating a boundary for her to threaten legal action again. as well, i saw first hand a husband stuck in the middle (literally).  we had agreed that if she started to get nasty with either of us that we would take a break and walk outside.  when i felt hurt i stood up to go and she pleasded with mu husband (scott) to stand up to me and said "Don't you dare walk away from me, Scott!!!!" It was freaky and surreal.  I don't know what to do!!! My husband keeps shutting down and then becoming enraged with me because I don't understand what he feels or struggles with.  he looks like he's about to explode!  i'm so confused and lost!!!  is there anyone out there with similar experiences?   

[dandylife]

Yes, I have dealt with situations similar many times.

This is when you have to stick to your guns and be willing to walk away.

"You will not smoke around my children or I will take them out of your presence."  She lights up, you take the kids and go.

"I will not be threatened or blackmailed when it comes to my kids. If you threaten me, then I have to leave until you can speak to me without threats." She threatens. You go.

This is what a boundary is. She keeps crossing it, you keep putting your shield up. It protects you. You must be vigilant and you must follow through. It's like dealing with a 2 year old during a tantrum. You must never give in and give her the lollipop or she will rule you forever.

Dandylife

[teartracks]

Hi Jillebean,

First, pleased to have you aboard VEXMB.  Welcome.

You didn't mention whether you and your husband have received outside counseling on how to approach or resolve this very touchy situation.  It sounds like both of you had made a plan on how to try to work out a workable solution with MIL and that approaching it from a sane perspective sent her into an insane tizzy. Employing the help of a professional would be my suggestion.  What you're looking at is a very complex family system that had traction before you entered the scene and probably has a few generations of controller/controllee behaviors deeply embedded in it.  My sense (I'm not a professional), it's just my sense, is that you saw the manifestation of the dark side of  the family system in the scene with your MIL and the charged ensuing mood of your husband.   I can see how it would bumfuzzle the hell out of you.

Right now, I think it would be good to concentrate on the 'leave and cleave' part of your marriage, i.e., step back from trying to address the MIL/grandparent situation and draw close to your husband and children.  Then  once things are a little calmer, search for a therapist that understands the dynamic behind the kind of family system in which you've found yourself.  

I think if you continue to post here, it will be a good outlet for you, especially when others respond iwth understanding and loving counsel.

Edit in:  Sorry Jillebean, I had not read your former posts.  If there's anything useful in the above, great!  If not, that's OK too.  Wishing you peace.

tt  

  

[lighter]

Welcome Jillebean and counseling is a wonderful idea.

Both you and your husband would benefit. 

He needs to hear some of what he needs to hear from someone besides you. 

[jillebean]

hello to all who have replie so far. my husband and i have been in therapy together for a few months.  i don't know how to be any clearer with anyone on just how abusive mil's behavior is to me and to kids.  imo, mil should have zero access to me or kids at this point.  thoughts?? am i way off???

[Hopalong]

Jille, hi...I am very sorry. These scenes are scalding.

My advice, not certain of it but will offer it just in case...is to not focus on trying to keep your H happy while you enforce new boundaries with your MIL. I think it would look like this:

You have stated the boundary. You are at her house and she crosses it.
You calmly and quietly and immediately gather the kids and leave the house.
(You don't wait for your husband to "get it" at the same moment...he's processing other stuff and has a lag.)

That's it...does that feel like something you can do?

Hops

[jillebean]

i'm not sure how to reply to one particular person here, so.... Hopalong, You're advice was an afterthought of mine (24 hrs. later, of course...) and kids were not there because of the nature of our visit.  in future i don't see myself going over there because the abusive behavior effects me in very bad ways.  I'm from abusive home (emotionally abusive dad) and married two abusers prior to current marriage who, thank my higher power, is not an abuser.  i still get stuck with how to protect kids because her behaviors are so covertly messed up and denied.  oh yeah, she's also a retired child psychologist and knows the ropes really well.  sorry for rambling.  so much confusion and anxiety makes me a chatterbox.

[changing]

Hi JBean!

Maybe limit MIL to seeing the kids on an outing where no smoking is allowed  (a coffee shop,museum, etc.? Smoking is banned almost everywhare theses days) I wouldn't even tell her that was the plan- just invite her to meet you there- if she says no, fine. Keep track in a calendar of the times that she was invited to join the family. The peace, cohesion, and happiness of your family comes first!

Hugs to you,

Changing

[reallyME]

jille,  I'm HEARIN ya about the mil.  I pray that God will intervene in that situation FAST!  That has to be AWFUL FOR YOU!!

Hops,

When I read what you wrote about  "he's still processing.  he has a lag" I had to laugh and yet that describes my NH PERFECTLY!

When I've tried to talk to him about important things, he will just sort of lay there, staring out into space.  When I say his name a few times "ROLAND! ROLAND! ROLAND!" he will finally really sluggggggggggggishly say "i'm thinking."

Another thing, when I finally get to a point that I'm yelling at him about what a bum he is, how he let himself go and I no longer find him physically attractive, his response is to just lay there with this stupid GRIN on his face...a TOOTHLESS one (literally), saying NOTHING!  It's like he finds my getting angry, so entertaining, and just sits there, staring at me stupidly, smirking as though I'm not even upset about anything, or like he doesn't care that I am.  At that point, I come to a point of almost HATING HIM!

Jille, I'm not trying to invade your thread here.  Your situation really stirred up something in me, so I wanted to comment and let you know that I'm living it too, but in MARRIAGE, rather than mil.  The other N in my family situation, is my N bil.  That's another story altogether!

Does anyone else experience what I just described?  The stupid grin while you are yelling out of frustration, trying to get N to understand how his idiocy affects you?  The dazed, dissociated stares, the comments of "what are you getting so UPSET about?  Look at how CALM I AM. DO you see ME yelling like that?"

~Laura

[Overcomer]

Hi!  I am in Iowa as well.  Luckily my Mom is not that bad.  The only thing she doesnt get is how to relate to my special needs child and the little girl doesnt like her!  She also offends my kids but that is her way.  Keep up the boundaries-maybe the lady will get it but do not hold your breath.

[jillebean]

laura,

you did not offend in any way.  in fact, you described to a tea what mil looked like when my husband and i tried the boundaries thing.  i tried to tell my husband that she was actually smiling at me when he was talking, but he didn't get it.  in fact, my husband gets a fairly "dead in the eyes" look in cases where mil's behaviors towards me are concerned.  he gets defensive and really pissed sometimes if i talk about mil's  dysfunctional behaviors towards the kids and he looks like a confused child if i say his mom''s disrespect for him is really hard for me to watch silently.   

jille

[Certain Hope]

Hi,

I've seen some little "inappropriate smiles" on the faces of my children, during their teen years, and always been mystified.

They're different from the gloating, triumphant smirk of npd that I remember from ex... almost seeming absent-minded.
Anyhow, I've often wondered about this and was just doing a bit of reading..  and although it doesn't explain much, this bit interested me:

Long-term recording of activity of the zygomatic muscle the most important mimic muscle involved in smiling, was performed in 22 disorganized type schizophrenic patients with inappropriate smiles and 15 normal subjects intwo separate experiments. During inappropriate smiles, the zygomatic muscle exhibited waxing and waning bursts of activity with an amplitude of 75 to 120 pV, which could not be distinguished from the activity observed during usual smiling in normal subjects. However, the duration of such activity tended to be longer when compared to that in usual smiling by normal subjects as well as by schizophrenic patients. In contrast to usual smiles, inappropriate smiles decreased with personal contact. When asked about their thoughts during smiling shortly after inappropriate smiles, more patients reported that they thought of nothing at all or something not necessarily pleasant rather than something pleasant that would be expected to induce smiling.     from http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14806847

Sometimes, this smiling has seemed involuntary... and very odd.

Jillebean, I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty... wishing you the best.

Hope

[reallyME]

Hope

Thanks for the info on inappropriate smiling.

The smirk on H's face is almost a mocking, sarcastic, or cycnical one, as if to say "look at you, you FOOL, how you are ranting and raving at me, while I just sit here all calm and collected."

I really have to fight my own rage feelings when I see it, cause it's like "don't you CARE that you upset me?  You just sit there and smile when I'm dying inside and want to just about shake you out of your shoes!"

I can't overestimate how IRRITATING it is.  It takes everything in me to not just throw something at him and wipe the smirk off!

~Laura

[tempesta]

Welcome Jilly.  Cute nick, my Daughter goes by killybean, lol.   I have to admire you when it comes to you mil.  This is not easy.  My late mil was a saint, I was lucky.  I did however have a few sils trying to control me, and it has taken years to get them to let up, one still insists on having it her way.  Oh well one out of 5 aint bad. Now if my fil would behave, he is a pain in the butt.  Very, very controlling with his children, and it isn't getting any better.
The people here have offered you such good advice.  All I can say is stick to you guns.  Sooner or later she will get the message, or she won't and you will have to just move on.  Too bad mil doesn't live out of the state.  Please keep up updated, I hope it gets better for you soon.  I wish I could help you more.

[jillebean]

on close proximity of N mil:  she did live about 10 hours away from us, but moved within 7 miles of us in 2002, then moved about 15 miles from us in 2005 and is now moving within apx 4 miles from us sometime in December.  She never lives in the same place for more time than it takes he to redecorate, regardless of wether or not she has sold current home. 

i know that she won't change anytime soon if ever.  what i'm really stuck on is how to not feel like i'm to blame for my husbands pain and build better boundaries, not walls, with my husband because he can get really distant and angry when i put my foot down about keeping kids away from n mil until i see some semblance of sane, non-abusive behavior from her.  I.m sooooo tired of feeling like he's gonna understand how much her actions hurt me.  he says he gets it, but his actions say different.