Author Topic: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)  (Read 6796 times)

reallyME

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As I was researching some info this morning, it occurred to me to look up something on autism, learning disorders, aspbergers syndromes.  I'm beginning to wonder if my husband might have some form of any or all of these things.  What's the difference between narcissistic personality disorder, a learning disorder, and autism or aspbergers?  Anyone?

This might very well explain a LOT of the following in my husband:

Prefers to work alone rather than with others

prefers to do things the same way over and over again.

Unable to be imaginative at times

Over-focused to a point that you cannot get his attention

Rude behavior- interrupting phone calls and, when told "i'm on the phone, please wait"...ignores you and keeps on talking.

Obsessed with knowing what time it is, what time things start, will end, how long they will be.

Does not like social situations normally.

Drawn more to ideas, tasks, success, money, than to people, emotions

Gets angry about change.

Hates get-togethers where people sit and talk, rather than DO something.

monopolizes conversation

can tell you how ANY movie will end and is 99% RIGHT most of the time.

doesn't enjoy fiction type stories

Difficulty making friends

Very PATTERNED way of doing things.  He must always drive the same roads to work.  He always has to have the table set a certain way.  He will say "I EXPECT the food to be on the table when I get home, and don't call me if it's not already on the table, COOLING OFF."  (you dare not call him to dinner, if you are still dishing food out)

Constantly talking, even to himself.  He always has to comment about stupid stuff that nobody gives a rip about.  I mean, we will be driving down the street, with me trying to let him know that I'm needing to be picked up from work early today, and suddenly he will look to the side out his window and say "hmmmm, oh wow, they got those roads built.  Wonder if they are using metal reinforcements.  That must be what they are using, yeah."

Gets VERY upset if his "ROUTINE" is interrupted.  He will say,"About TIME you got here!"I EXPECTED YOU to pick me up at 5! "
 
Totally oblivious to non-verbal CUES.

OBLIVIOUS to obvious changes in appearance.  I can get my super-long hair cut short and ask him what he thinks and he will respond, "about what?"  I'll say "I got my hair cut"  He'll say "I don't notice any difference."

.Thinks that everyone is just fascinated with him and thinks he is Mr Wonderful.  Doesn't believe when I tell him that people think he looks like a geek and is verbally abusive toward me in public.  His response is "nobody ever SAYS anything to me about it."  My response "tactful people are NOT going to walk up and say, "Roland, you are a geek, lose the flood pants, get some teeth and treat your wife better!"


Has NO PHONE SKILLS whatsoever.  NO clue when it's his turn to talk or not.  Shouts into phone, WHILE I'M TALKING TO HIM "SPEAK UP, I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and puts his face over the mouthpeice which makes it MUFFLED when I'm trying to hear him.  He doesn't understand WHY I can't hear him when the mouthpiece is covered up and he will say "I'm talking right into the phone, dear."

Totally blows off birthdays, saying "what's the big deal.  So you celebrate it on a different day"  Of course, none of our girls got any birthday gifts, parties this year.  ( I'm planning a BIG party for them all as soon as I get some money)

He does not understand jokes and will look at you weird if you tell him one, and roll his eyes and say "tsk"  (as though your laughter is STUPID and ridiculous)

REPETITIVE OVER YEARS-  I can tell you almost word for word what this man's responses will be to almost any given topic.  He is like being married to a robot.  He usually quotes books, tv shows, other people, but NEVER GIVES YOU HIS OWN ORIGINAL THOUGHT ON ANYTHING!

Thinks childish pretending of my 8 yr old is stupid or nonsense.  IN fact, his favorite saying, if you try to tell him something that you feel passionate about or are hoping for or enjoyed watching on tv or something, is "doesnt make any sense!"  (what he really means is he doesn't want to FEEL anything regarding it)

VERY LITTLE EMPATHY.  When I'm ill and can't do dishes i get "oh come ON!  You can't do those few dishes?  I could have 5 sink loads done by the time it takes you to do 1!"  If i tell him I'm sick, his response will be scoffing " ohhh you're SICK? um ooook."

He backs down BIG TIME to any authority figure.  When we were at shows, and the health inspector came to the trailer and could close us down if things didn't get cleaned quickly, he was tripping over his own tongue saying "yes yes, ok uh, hah, well I was going to fix that.  yeah, I understand, yeah yeah, ok...."  (looked like a child who got caught with hand in the cookie jar)

MAJOR PROCRASTINATOR, claiming "oh I was GONNA pay the bill on Monday" (when it was due on last FRIDAY!)  When our utilities got shut off, his response was "this is a good lesson for all of us in being frugal with our water, electric, etc")

Even now, he will accept NO RESPONSIBILITy for my 18 year old getting pregnant, since HE allowed the boyfriend in her bedroom every weekend.  He says "I didn't tell her to do it with him.  I trusted her to not do that.  It's not MY fault it happened."


He does not remember anyone's ages or birthdays whatsoever.  He is the WORST person to have with you at a hospital during an emergency.

SO NOW, WHAT DO YA'll THINK IS HIS ISSUE?  Is it NPD?  AVOIDANT?  AUTISTIC?  ASPBERGERS?  (I'd esp like to hear from some of you with degrees in psychiatry and psychology!)

BonesMS

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2007, 09:42:18 AM »
I'll will have to look through my DSM-IV-TR to see what it says on these symptoms.  Instead of autism, I was thinking Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.  As for the rest (i.e. NPD, Aspergers, etc.) it could be a combination of all of the above with the exception of autism.  Just my thoughts off the top of my head.

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Certain Hope

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2007, 09:52:10 AM »
Laura, Bones,

Could there be some Schizoid   Schizotypal traits in the mix, as well?

It's been a while since I've read on that disorder, but some of this seems to fit.

Hugs,
Hope
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 10:17:41 AM by Certain Hope »

dandylife

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 10:30:18 AM »
Sounds to me like OCD and low motivation.

Laura, what attracted you to him?

Dandylife
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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 10:46:40 AM »
Laura, here's some good info about Asperger's. Reading it now, it sounds like it fits your H quite well. Starts out with recognizing it in a child and then goes thru adulthood:



Although there are many possible symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome, the main symptom is severe trouble with social situations. Your child may have mild to severe symptoms or have a few or many of these symptoms. Because of the wide variety of symptoms, no two children with Asperger's are alike.

Symptoms during childhood

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

Not pick up on social cues and lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.

Dislike any changes in routines.

Appear to lack empathy.

Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.

Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the term “beckon” instead of “call,” or “return” instead of “come back.”

Avoid eye contact.

Have unusual facial expressions or postures.

Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as doing intricate jigsaw puzzles, designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or astronomy.

Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.

Have delayed motor development. Your child may be late in learning to use a fork or spoon, ride a bike, or catch a ball. He or she may have an awkward walk. Handwriting is often poor.

Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory integration dysfunction.

Although the condition is in some ways similar to autism, a child with Asperger's syndrome typically has normal to advanced language and intellectual development. Also, those with Asperger's syndrome typically make more of an effort than those with autism to make friends and engage in activities with others.

Symptoms during adolescent and teen years

Most symptoms persist through the teen years, and although teens with Asperger's can begin to learn those social skills they lack, communication often remains difficult. They will probably continue to have difficulty "reading" others' behavior.

Your teen with Asperger's syndrome (like other teens) will want friends but may feel shy or intimidated when approaching other teens. He or she may feel "different" from others. Although most teens place emphasis on being and looking "cool," trying to fit in may be frustrating and emotionally draining for teens with Asperger's. They may be immature for their age and be naive and too trusting, which can lead to teasing and bullying.

All of these difficulties can cause teens with Asperger's to become withdrawn and socially isolated and to have depression or anxiety.3

However, some teens with Asperger's syndrome are able to make and keep a few close friends through the school years. Some of the classic Asperger's traits may also work to the benefit of your teen. Teens with Asperger's are typically uninterested in following social norms, fads, or conventional thinking, allowing creative thinking and the pursuit of original interests and goals. Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens.

Symptoms in adulthood

Asperger's syndrome is a lifelong condition, although it tends to stabilize over time, and improvements are often seen. Adults usually obtain a better understanding of their own strengths and weaknesses. They are able to learn social skills and how to read others' social cues. Many people with Asperger's syndrome marry and have children.

Some traits that are typical of Asperger's syndrome, such as attention to detail and focused interests, can increase chances of university and career success. Many people with Asperger's seem to be fascinated with technology, and a common career choice is engineering. However, scientific careers are by no means the only areas where people with Asperger's excel. Indeed, many respected historical figures have had symptoms of Asperger's, including Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, and Thomas Jefferson.

Other conditions

Many children with Asperger's syndrome also have coexisting conditions and may have symptoms of these conditions as well. They include:

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
Anxiety disorder.
Depression, especially in adolescents.
Nonverbal learning disorder.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD).
Social anxiety disorder.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/tc/Aspergers-Syndrome-Symptoms

Dandylife
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reallyME

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 01:42:17 PM »
WOW! I feel like I can talk to you all about ANYTHING!  You ROCK!  Thank you for hearing me and helping me sort through all this.

Dandy, you asked me what attracted me to my husband in the first place.  I lived in fantasy back 20 years ago, and this man was my RESCUER, my PRINCE ON A WHITE HORSE, out of a situation that I felt was rather controlling.  I was living with a foster mom at the time, who had issues of her own.  Even to this day, she will not let her own 25 year old daughter venture very far from her.  She once told us both "there are only 2 ways you are leaving here...marriage or college!"

I felt like my husband was my only way to get out, so I did what I could to urge him into marriage.  I did know ahead of time that his father had been abusive to him and his sisters; even molested his sisters.  I felt I could COMFORT HIM, and, at the same time that I expected him to rescue me, I also believed I could be HIS savior from his emotional issues and feelings of lack of acceptance.

I have decided to do some research about his childhood, as a result of this recent investigation of Aspbergers.  I do know he was diagnosed with lazy eye and had a learning disability in childhood, which made him slow.  All 3 of our children together, seem to have a learning disability as well.  All 3 of them were held back in certain school grades.  So, the signs were there, but signs of WHAT?  That's where I'm at now.  Follow me on my journey?

Quote
Although there are many possible symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome, the main symptom is severe trouble with social situations. Your child may have mild to severe symptoms or have a few or many of these symptoms. Because of the wide variety of symptoms, no two children with Asperger's are alike.

Ok, Roland had problems with socialization.  He still does not prefer to join me in any sort of intimate group events, although at times he will do this to please me.  He never dated ANYONE before me.  Part of the reason was, any time he expressed interest in a girl, other than to play sports, as a child, his father made fun of him.

Quote
Symptoms during childhood

Parents often first notice the symptoms of Asperger's syndrome when their child starts preschool and begins to interact with other children. Children with Asperger's syndrome may:

Not pick up on social cues and lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.


As an ADULT, Roland will interrupt and talk right over people.  Sometimes if our children are trying to talk to him, they feel they have to compete to be heard.  Little Amber, age 8, will scream "DADDY I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING! THIS IS IMPORTANT!"  It will take all 3 of us (daughters and me) to get him to stop talking and LISTEN to Amber.  Sometimes, he will listen and then, before he responds to her, will start talking again.  This feels RUDE and ANNOYING to myself and my daughters.

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Dislike any changes in routines.


He does have a problem with his own routine changing, although, he feels that I should "just deal with it" when HE changes MY routine.

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Appear to lack empathy.


I gotta LOVE the way this says "APPEAR" to lack empathy.  The dude LACKS IT BIG TIME and he doesn't just APPEAR to.  Part of this, again, was due to his father torturing animals and laughing about it.  Roland was taught that animals have no feelings, and I do believe that, at times, that has transferred over to HUMANS as well.


Quote
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally.

My husband can NOT tell when someone sounds ANGRY.  When we ran the restaurant, people would come up and complain to me, getting loud and nasty.  Later, when I'd say "that lady was really pissed at me!"  he'd say "oh she was NOT! She was just telling you that she wanted her chicken done better.  You can't let stuff get to you."  I'd ask "didn't you see how she was yelling?"  he'd say "she wasn't yelling."  Even when my husband raises his voice and yells at me, and my friends on the phone overhear it and say "my GOD, is that HIM?  what is he yelling at you about?  I'd NEVER put up with that!"  later, I'll tell him about what my friend says and he'll say "I don't yell."  Then, if I press the issue, at the top of his lungs he will yell, "THIS IS YELLLLLLLLLLLLLLING!" as if to prove some sort of point.


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Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.


his speech is super high-pitched and almost feminine.  He has an extremely annoying voice, and, even moreso now that he has no teeth on the top of his mouth.  It's very hard to understand what he is saying cause his diction is messed up.

Quote
Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the term “beckon” instead of “call,” or “return” instead of “come back.”


He doesn't use advance words, but he does try to sound like he knows all the technical terms for anything he does.  Like, he will say things like, "that is made of particle board rather than oak" spouting off how knowledgeable he is about wood.  If I say, "well, I just call it junk wood," he'll say "no, it's called PARTICLE BOARD, because it's made up of fibers and particles."  It's like " quit showing off, you fruitcake!"

He also has a tendency of mispronouncing words, that just IRKS me to know end.  He will say:  "And then Mr Smith sold the propity,"  or "I took them to the legiont hall"  That sort of thing I find VERY IRRITATING, along with is bad grammar..."them are the right ones."  If I correct that, he will say "them are, they are, them- they are, WHATEVER!" as if proper english is of no concern to him.

Quote
Avoid eye contact.


He always looks over your head when he talks.  If you say "i'm down here, ROland!"  he will respond "I know. I'm lookin right at you.  I'm staring right above your eyes"  (but he wasn't and isn't and YOU CAN TELL!)
Quote
Have unusual facial expressions or postures.


He almost always has a scowl on his face, and has frown lines very deeply etched into his forehead.  Laughter is not something you will hear very often in our home, unless HE decides to make a joke, which, to us is usually LAME.  He will laugh at his own jokes but not "get" anyone else's!

Quote
Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about.

He's a major workaholic!

Quote
Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as doing intricate jigsaw puzzles, designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or astronomy.

From the time he was a child, he pulled appliances apart to see how they worked.  He told me he'd sit for hours pulling apart old alarm clocks and putting them back together.

Quote
Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.


The man will talk during an entire car trip, to you, to others, (more AT than TO), and of course TO HIMSELF ENDLESSLY.  He can carry on an entire conversation by himself alone, talking, responding, with no external responses from another person.  It is the WEIRDEST thing you can experience!

Quote
Have delayed motor development. Your child may be late in learning to use a fork or spoon, ride a bike, or catch a ball. He or she may have an awkward walk. Handwriting is often poor.


I'm going to be
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asking his mom about this.

Have heightened sensitivity and become overstimulated by loud noises, lights, or strong tastes or textures. For more information about these symptoms, see sensory integration dysfunction.


Roland cannot handle being around anything with vinegar in it, nail polish remover, or anything strongly ammonia.  He claims it irritates the nostrils of his nose.  He will NOT eat any sort of condiment on anything.  He cannot handle me turning a light on when he's sleeping, yet he will readily turn it on full blast in my eyes while I'm pregnant and trying to sleep in in the morning.  When I complain "oh it's not that bright!  Close your eyes and ignore it!"
Quote
Although the condition is in some ways similar to autism, a child with Asperger's syndrome typically has normal to advanced language and intellectual development.


He did well in SHOP and Social Studies.

Quote
Also, those with Asperger's syndrome typically make more of an effort than those with autism to make friends and engage in activities with others.

He is not totally anti-social and has had a handful of friends in his life.

Symptoms during adolescent and teen years

Quote
Most symptoms persist through the teen years, and although teens with Asperger's can begin to learn those social skills they lack, communication often remains difficult. They will probably continue to have difficulty "reading" others' behavior.


Nope, he can't read anyone's behavior.  He honestly believes that everyone is at peace with him and everything he does.  He is totally shocked if an authority corrects something he did.  He has no clue that some people really don't like him.  He wont' believe it if you tell him that either.  His response "they didn't SAY anything to me."

Quote
Your teen with Asperger's syndrome (like other teens) will want friends but may feel shy or intimidated when approaching other teens. He or she may feel "different" from others. Although most teens place emphasis on being and looking "cool," trying to fit in may be frustrating and emotionally draining for teens with Asperger's. They may be immature for their age and be naive and too trusting, which can lead to teasing and bullying.

He prides himself on being a non-conformist, dressing eccentric, and being different.  He insists that his "flood pants" set the trend for today's capri style!

All of these difficulties can cause teens with Asperger's to become withdrawn and socially isolated and to have depression or anxiety.3
Quote
However, some teens with Asperger's syndrome are able to make and keep a few close friends through the school years. Some of the classic Asperger's traits may also work to the benefit of your teen. Teens with Asperger's are typically uninterested in following social norms, fads, or conventional thinking, allowing creative thinking and the pursuit of original interests and goals. Their preference for rules and honesty may lead them to excel in the classroom and as citizens.


he had 1 best friend for years, and that man was our best man in our wedding.  Until we moved, he was the only friend Roland had.

Symptoms in adulthood

Quote
.Many people with Asperger's syndrome marry and have children.


Obviously.  You are hearing from one of em.

*THANKS DANDYLIFE!

Overcomer

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2007, 08:30:29 PM »
You just described my H!  To a T!  My doc thinks he may have a weird form of ADD-he gets stuck.  He repeats himself and still is obsessed with Journey and they were popular over 20 years ago-it is the only CD in his car.  My daughter has autism and it is not that but he will argue with her and that DOES NOT work on her!
Kelly

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Certain Hope

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2007, 09:49:11 PM »
Hi, Laura,

I've been doing some reading about Asperger's Syndrome and wanted to pass on these couple of links to you, just in case they might help.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/baron-cohen.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

Starts out with this, which explained to me how someone with Asperger's might view things:

"Sally has a marble. She puts her marble into the box, and then she goes outside. Anne comes in, takes the marble out of the box, and puts it in her basket. When Sally comes back, where will she look for the marble?

By the age of 4 or so, most children who watch this scenario played out by puppets - including children with Down's syndrome and other developmental problems - know the answer. But some do not. They do not understand that what they know and what Sally knows are different, that Sally has a mind of her own. The children who expect Sally to look in the basket, because they know that's where the marble is and can't believe that she doesn't, are the ones likely to be diagnosed with autism or its relative, Asperger's syndrome."


And this one:  http://www.aspennj.org/plank.html   written by a 15-year old, diagnosed with Asperger's.

Here's an excerpt:  "Children and adults with Asperger's Syndrome tend to interrupt
frequently. They have a hard time understanding social cues that tell them
when it is their turn. Sometimes they see two people talking about
something they are interested and automatically think its ok to just join
the conversation because they know about the subject of which the people
are talking.

AS children frequently make comments that are very irrelevant. This is
because they blurt out the first thing that comes to their mind. People
think that this is odd, but is important to remember that they do not
understand that it is important to keep some of their thoughts in their
heads."


Fascinating stuff, I think. Wishing you a great week, Laura.

Hope


P.S. to Dandylife... I meant to thank you, Dandy, for the Asperger's info you posted... made me want to research and learn some more. I think this was said here once, months ago... but I get the distinct feeling that NPD is like Asperger's gone bad  :?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 09:52:58 PM by Certain Hope »

reallyME

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2007, 10:19:52 PM »
Hope,

I asked my husband the question about the marble in the box.  HIs response was "wha? wait!  repeat the question?"  So, I did, and he got it right!

~Laura

mudpuppy

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 12:45:29 AM »
Quote
HIs response was "wha? wait!  repeat the question?" 


Heh. I had to read it twice, too. Maybe all men are 'Aspergered' to some degree, to coin a new word.
Or maybe I'm just a little slow. :?

mud

Certain Hope

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2007, 08:31:49 AM »
 Laura :)  About the marble thing...

remember, it is the non-verbal stuff with which Asperger's folks have no connection.
I'm thinking that the results of the marble thingy may be entirely different if the story were acted out on the screen, and not related in word-form... but I dunno.

Anyhow, it's not a test for Aspergers... just an example of how the line of thought goes, for someone who believes that everyone shares the same info. just exactly as he does.

And... Mud... I think you may have something there  :shock:  :D  at least when it comes to awareness and interpretation of body language, non-verbal cues, and the subtleties of communication. Reading this stuff yesterday, I wondered whether there is such a thing as "acquired asbergers"... a sort of mind-blindness which is learned as a result of growing up under the narrow focus of N. Research continues.

Hope

Ami

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2007, 09:41:48 AM »
I might be setting myself up for cyberspace tomatoes to be thrown at me.However, I think that all these syndromes are just pain and fear.
  I think that the Psychology and Medical industries make a lot of money by pigeon holing people in to these different categories.
   The Bible says"Perfect love casts out fear." This means that if you can receive HOW much God loves you, then fear will leave.
   I think that it is really, really sad when a  little kid is diagnosed with something and then 'stays" in the diagnosis .I guess that I am a believer in holistic medicine. The more that I heal, the more that I experience the body and mind as "one".
 I worked with one of the top holistic doctors in the country. I shifted my perspective away from allopathic medicine. However,it was a "shock" to face these things. I know that many people think that non allopathic medicine is silly. However,I just wanted to add my two cents to the discussion.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

mudpuppy

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2007, 10:24:04 AM »
 No tomatoes Ami, but I do think holistic v allopathic depends on the situation.
I can state pretty confidentally that naturopathic and holistic medicine came within a gnat's tookus of killing my wife last year and allopathic medicine, by the grace of God, brought her back from that brink.
 In other situtions I do agree that holistic medicine can be very useful but there are times when an old fashioned Marcus Welby with a scalpel or an IV full of drugs is all that will help.

mud

tayana

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2007, 11:05:02 AM »
Laura,

My son was diagnosed with Asperger's at age 7.  I want to point out a couple of things.  First of all, it's possible to have autistic traits with no autism.  My son has a very mild form of Asperger's, and many of the "stims" he had when he was younger have vanished as he's matured.  No two people with the condition are alike, but I want to point out some things that show the difference between narcissm and autism.  I haven't been reading the boards much lately, but this thread caught my eye.

First of all, one of the key phrases is "appear to lack empathy."  My son does not lack empathy, but he shows it very differently than you or I would.  Here are some examples:  We went to a pizza parlor that has an arcade.  I'd given him a couple of dollars to use in the arcade, and he came and asked for more money.  When I asked what he was doing, he wouldn't tell me.  When I said he couldn't have anymore money, he said, "But I was trying to win this stuffed dog for you to cheer you up, so you wouldn't be sad anymore."

Another example:  Trying to get my son to bed one night, he's feverishly drawing a present for me, even though he needs to go to bed.  He was drawing a picture of the house he would like us to have, again to cheer me up.

He has a very gentle, caring nature.  He will not say or do things just to hurt people.  Sometimes he will be very blunt:

Example:  I bought a pair of workout pants to exercise in, and he said, "Those pants make your legs look fat." 

He didn't say this to be intentionally hurtful, but rather he was simply stating fact.  He will have a melt down if he thinks he's really hurt someone.  He got very upset the other night when I got angry because he spilled a drink on his bed.  He was genuinely hurt that he'd upset me. 

When those lists talk about "obsessions" with things, they mean obsessions, as in that is all the Asperger child wants to do or think about.  If asked to do something, it will involve whatever the obsession is.  My son has been into dinosaurs, bugs, Titanic, sunken ships, etc.  When he is "on" a topic, that is all he wants to read, watch and talk about.

The important thing to remember is that people with Aspergers and autism are usually very intelligent.  It isn't that they can't communicate, but rather that they communicate differently.  They do NOT LACK EMPATHY or EMOTIONS, but they have a hard time understanding how to express them correctly.  More importantly, these folks can learn to function very normally and learn to interact appropriately.  My son shows less and less "autistic traits" as he gets older.  He still has problems making friends, and he often misunderstands normal childhood interactions, but he's gotten much, much better.  I have a lot of hope that he will be fine when he's older.

The only way to be certain of this diagnosis is to have a phsychological evaluation done.  Just because someone has the traits, does not mean they have this syndrome.  And just because they have this syndrome, it's entirely possible for the person to also be narcissistic.  People with Asperger's have personalities just like everyone else.

http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

tayana

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Re: Narcissism vs autism or aspberbers...what's the diff? anyone? (long)
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2007, 11:08:47 AM »
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I might be setting myself up for cyberspace tomatoes to be thrown at me.However, I think that all these syndromes are just pain and fear.
  I think that the Psychology and Medical industries make a lot of money by pigeon holing people in to these different categories.
   The Bible says"Perfect love casts out fear." This means that if you can receive HOW much God loves you, then fear will leave.
   I think that it is really, really sad when a  little kid is diagnosed with something and then 'stays" in the diagnosis .I guess that I am a believer in holistic medicine. The more that I heal, the more that I experience the body and mind as "one".
 I worked with one of the top holistic doctors in the country. I shifted my perspective away from allopathic medicine. However,it was a "shock" to face these things. I know that many people think that non allopathic medicine is silly. However,I just wanted to add my two cents to the discussion.

Ami, to a degree, I agree with you.  In many cases the labels are attached and they follow these kids around all through school.  I think some of the labels are actually a reaction to our lack of understanding of individuals and being unable to cater education to students instead of a one size fits all approach.   

I have often been on the fence about my son's diagnosis because I'm not really certain it fits him.  he does have some Aspie traits, but he has many other things that are very atypical of the syndrome.  And I have to wonder how much of his "problem" has to do with the abnormal situation he's grown up in and being around my narcissistic parent.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt