my life is in ruins, but at least I'm here

[roses in her eyes]

I've always known that my family was seriously dysfunctional, but I never really known what it was all about--and more importantly--how it had affected me all these years until I tapped into this resource and the various others like it. I really appreciate reading everyone's accounts because they solidify what I've been carrying around forever.

Now everything makes sense. I mean EVERYTHING. Of course, the problem leaves me in the same situation I always am with my family--all alone. But at least I finally know what's going on. Too bad it took suffering a long unemployment that forced me to ask my NM for financial help, which in turn has resulted in so much anxiety that I almost feel like I have a PTSD.

I am scared and alone, but I still feel like I have made an important discovery. I always thought I was the "normal" one in the family.  Like I was the only "grown up".  I could console my NM because I could understand what it seemed like she couldn't.  Now I know what that was: empathy.  But it wasn't my understanding that she valued, just my attention.

Since this is my first post, I'm going to provide some family background for context. SunBlue, this should be relevant to your thread since I have 3 sibs, all uniquely affected.

First of all, both of my parents were raised by an evil, evil NP's. My F's NF was a terrible misanthrope. Raging NPD. Psychopath.  The day he died seemed like the happiest day of my F's life. It has since been revealed the he used to regularly "vacation" with young men in Europe without my grandmother. Made sense to me, with his misogyny and anger and frilly clothes, show tunes and horses.  My F's sister is gay and stayed far away from anyone in our family for a long time--until after her NF died. Since his death, she (with her longtime companion) now attends family occasions (you know, those stilted awkward get-togthers everyone dreads). 

I have always had issues with my F, knowing how messed up his NF was.  Plus, he's technically my and my older sister's step-father and my younger bro and sis' natural father--which also made me feel different in his eyes.  This is all old news, really. The revelation is really that my mother is was and always will be NPD and the result of her mother being NPD and more evil than I could possibly know. My F was always an abusive prick and has all kinds of other psychological problems, namely OCD, but I just couldn't spot what was wrong with my M.

My older sister is clearly NPD,  and ironically, always easy for me to see from the start. Not that I knew what it was called, but I actually learned to cope in exactly the right way.  As a kid, my sister would abuse me and I eventually learned to just stay away from her and she couldn't hurt me.   She married a co-dependent workaholic who makes millions while she surrounds herself with servants and ridiculous opulence.  She has two young daughters I feel very sorry for.

My sister was around 6 when my M divorced and I was under two.  I don't really have any memories until after my mother re-married and after my younger brother was born, which I'm now realizing was only about 1.5 years later.  My younger sister was born 3 years after that. My younger brother is very introverted and seems to suffer from other psychological problems, but he's not N. He seems more like he has Asperger's.  I never observed his having a relationship with a woman ever until he got married, around age 30.  He does appear to be married to an NPD, though. The closest relationship I have with any family member is my younger sister.  She's now married  and expecting her first baby.  She's the one who actually first told me about NPD.  We've shared a bunch of stories relating to what we've read on these forums and it has helped me a lot. But also causes a lot of pain.

I described to my sister that it feel like what I imagine someone who's secretly gay feels eating them up inside because they can't tell anyone--except I don't have a secret!!--I just don't have anyone that can listen.

Well, I guess I have my younger sister.

A few more relevant facts. My father has been largely unable to hold down a job or support us as a family growing up. So we ended up essentially being supported by my grandparents. My mother's parents, however, had significantly more money. Now that my M has control of the money and has assumed the dominant position in her marriage, her NPD seems fueled, almost out of control.  Of course, it does occupy her time now! Since she finally has money she can preoccupy herself now more easily. And she no longer suffers my F's abuse since she has total control.  Of course she hates all my sibs' spouses and their parents. They are all evil, terrible people. That's what she tells me. But now that I am struggling and have asked for financial help, everyone now gets to hear all the time about how "worried she is about me." Of course this news only greets the people who call her.  She would never call me to ask how I'm doing because she is worried about me, much less offer to help me.

I know her next move is to compel me to move back and live with her. Not gonna happen! I desperately need to find a job and I'm just afraid that the psychological damage of dealing with my NM for help is actually hurting me more in the job search.  Losing your job is enough of a blow to your self-esteem.  Now I've got this incredible double-stress.

I know it's bootstrap time, but I've never felt so vulnerable. I'm exhausted.

Thanks for reading.



 

[Iphi]

Hi rihe - welcome!  Got to run for now but wanted to say 'hi' and sounds like you are in the right place.

[teartracks]

Hi Roses in her eyes,

Your story.  Sad, aware, and hopeful.  That's how many of our stories start out here.  I'm glad you are here.  I've been posting a long time off and on.  When I look back on what has transpired during that time, I can see how I've grown in my understanding of what was undermining my life previously. 

Knowledge is power and we all learn so much from each other here.

Warm handshakes...

tt

[Poppyseed]

Hello Roses!  I am Poppy.  I appreciate your post.  I know what it feels like to live in dysfunction and feel like the only adult in the room....or rather that I couldn't be a child because the environment caused me to take on adult roles.  It is so hard and confusing, isn't it.  It sounds like life has thrown you a curve ball.  Getting fired couldn't be harder.  Then again, maybe it will turn out to be the best of blessings in disguise!  I wish that for you.  I hope you feel listened to on this board.  There are some great big ears and even bigger hearts.  Looking forward to hearing more of your insights.

Poppy

[roses in her eyes]

It might sound like I'm in the right place mentally, but I still constantly battling through these issues in my head--it's way worse not having a job to pre-occupy yourself. That has always been my defense mechanism. To retreat to the safety of playing sports or some other activity, where the rules are explicit and everyone follows them.  As far as maintaining personal relationships, I've also resorted to isolation.

It is starting to occur to me now that the "thrill" or "spark" I got from of a new relationship or friend only really happened when I was dealing with an N and I could assume the role of the co-d because I really wanted to completely enter her/his world so I could escape mine. As I have seen written elsewhere, this is a temporary state and can't last. So you end up with either a yo-yo cycle of abuse or it ends.  But do I only get a spark from N's and no one else? Or do they prey on me because I am the low hanging fruit, so to speak? I remained alone for a long time. My last relationship did a lot of damage in its 2.5 years. That was 5 years ago. The most intense attraction I've ever had for a woman, and now I figure out that she was a total N, who I could satisfy for a while, before we descended into a cycle that was probably more destructive than my NM's lack of interest.  In fact, in the end it was probably my learned defenses that finally drove her away, even though that wasn't what I wanted at the time.

I recently learned that she pretty much married the next guy she dated after me and had a baby.  At first this news devastated me. And yet now I'm thinking what incredible good fortune I had not to step into that trap! I went through the full cycle of emotions after that break up.  All the way through the anger and everything. But only now do I have some true clarity on it.  I still have not felt the immense anger for my NM that I have read is in my future.  Right now I just feel an immense headache.

[reallyME]

Roses,

I'm wondering.  Are you female or male?  I'm trying to read your posts from your point of view and I wasn't sure.  Maybe I missed something?

~Laura

[roses in her eyes]

Laura-

I am in fact a man.

 

[roses in her eyes]

Authentic-

Thanks for the kind words. It really came down to my recent conversations with her where I realized that her lack of empathy was literally pathological in a way that was disturbing.  I just couldn't explain it.  Then I hear about this recent incident where my parents were going out to dinner with my F's mother, my only GP left, a sweet woman now 90 who suffered an oppressive monster NH herself.  My brother and his wife and baby were to join them, a treat especially for my GM, but my NM picked a fight and was able to make them cancel an hour before, like she always does. My GM, disappointed when learning that my B wasn't coming, confronted my NM, asking her why she drives everyone away by being so hateful.  This came from my GM! My NM of course fired back with something mean about my F's NF and then my F hit my NM! I think my F didn't return home that night.  Every story makes me think it can't be topped and then it is every time. As far as I know things have resumed to normal (i.e. crazy) in their alternate universe.

I guess my story can be one of the stories. There's plenty more where that came from.

It's one thing when I think of the fact that I used to wake up and get dressed, make my own breakfast and read the newspaper since I was 6 or so. But the fact that I would actually take care of my infant sister to the extent that I would change her diapers and my NM encouraged this! I think she thinks it's a good thing to this day! Along those same lines, I actually saw my NPD sister attempt to potty train her first daughter at 6 months before someone with some sanity intervened.

Someone used the metaphor of feeling like a baby abandoned at the curb.  My NM tells a story about how when I was only 4 or 5 we were leaving a mall or shopping center and when we drove off it appeared to me that we were leaving my younger brother. She tells the story about how upset I got and how funny it was. She still tells that story.

Then there's the many trivial debates that bizarrely led to histrionics, mainly as I tried unsuccessfully to explain how I was correct, when I was, in fact, correct.  The surreal part is how my parents actually recall the arguments nostalgically now, but still won't acknowledge that I was right all along! There's a reason why they turned the experience of dealing with a N into a twilight zone episode!

The now famous Earth and the Sun debate was really more about a 12-year-old learning something about astronomy and constructing a counter-intuitive question to try and stump his F. 

I had learned that the Earth's orbit, like all planets', was an elipse.  And that although the average distance from the Earth to the Sun is 93 million miles, it actually varies between 92 and 94 million miles on its eliptical path. And in doing so, it meant that in the Northern Hemisphere, at least, the Earth is actually about 2 million miles closer to the Sun in the Winter than in the Summer. Of course, it is the tilt of the Earth's axis that creates the seasons not its distance from the Sun, but that's essentially what I wanted to share. Instead I was shouted down and made fun of and dismissed. And as I said, to this day they tell the story about the argument as if it somehow forms a fond memory for them and they still don't understand or care at all about the subject. I guess there aren't any other kind of memories for them.

[lighter]

Hello Roses:

I like the idea of your focusing on you and getting a job that fuels your esteem.

Staying away from Mommy Dearest is a very good idea and you'll find plenty of people, besides your youngest sister, who'll listen here.

You already know that by now so I wish you good luck.

Remember to nurture yourself.  Even when you don't feel like it or think you deserve it.

JUST DO IT; )

[sun blue]

Hi Roses and all:

You're right, your post about your family has so many similarities to mine.  It is sad and painful.  In my case, my mom and sis are the NPDs, my dad is the co-dependent and my younger bro is the "healthy" one with a good family.  I am the depressive, the failure, the sensitive one.  I am unemployed now as well and it is so hard.  I am forced to live with my NPD mom and co-dependent dad who almost completely ignore me.  Like you, my NPD mom would talk to others about how she may be worried about me (actually, I think, she just can't stand my situation because she believes it is a reflection on her), but she never, ever would ask me about it.  I'll go out on a job interview and she won't even inquire about the company or how the interview went.  She has no interest in me whatsoever.  My dad will completely and always do whatever my mom wants, agrees with what she says, takes all of her emotional abuse.  My dad had bad luck in the job department at a time when he experienced age discrimination in the workplace through absolutely no fault of his own.  My mom never lets him forgets it and treats him like her unworthy slave.  So I get no help from my dad.

The hardest thing is being completely alone, having no one to care about me, support or encourage me, or help me.  The loneliness and feelings of failure and rejection are truly overwhelming at times.  I've been depressed all my life and now I realize why.  Neither my NPD mom or dad would accompany me to therapy or even participate by answering a few questions.  They "don't believe in that sort of thing". 

I'm left feeling guilty, feeling stupid, and feeling like a loser because I was not able to cope with this either as a child or as an adult in a more healthy manner.  My brother turned out perfectly ok.  He has a wife and daughter, a good career and home.  He distances himself from my parents as much as he can and believes you "just move on."  He is incapable of understanding this NPD stuff even when I spelled it out for him.  Empathy and compassion for me are truly non-existent.

As a child, when I brought up my NPD sister's abuse to me, I was told by my dad to just "keep the peace for my mother's sake."  So my self-esteem is non-existent and I feel I have no value.  As is common with children of NPDs, I have always gone out of my way to please others and get them to like me, but it was always one-sided.  The people I cared most about (my family) just simply don't care about me.  My parents both devote all of their attention to my NPD sister, ignoring my brother and I.  My brother, in turn, devotes himself to his own family.  And I am alone.

I realize it would be futile to try to get my NPD mom and co-depedent dad to see how their behavior has affected me.  They are incapable of looking at themselves.  They have no self-awareness and their need to be "right" overrides everything, even relationships with their children.  So what do you do? 

It has been such a disillusioning revelation!  I was always told (by my parents, of course) that I had the "best parents in the world" and was lucky to have them.  I was made to walk on eggshells, always cognizant of the fact I needed to make sure my parents felt ok.  I was never a priority for anyone.

So yes, I can so identify with all your posts.  It is heartbreaking, heartwrenching.  It literally changes your whole life.  I feel ashamed and guilty that I did not cope in the same "healthy" manner my brother did.  He got away pretty scot free.  The only reason I can come up with is that he, as the little brother, was taken under the wing of my NPD sister while I was abused and ignored by her.  He did not incur her wrath until he was adult and became engaged.  It was then she disowned him fully.  Perhaps that early acceptance helped him.  As a child, I not only endured my sister's abuse, but also the neglect of my NPD mom and dad. 

I think my problem is I keep trying to attack this problem with logic.  My head thinks, "mothers should take interest in their children, try to help them, encourage and support them," but of course, logic doesn't work with NPDs.  It is just so hard to accept.  And the loneliness is palpable.  The depression is so deep.

But alas, I know you all have felt this.  Thanks for listening.

[reallyME]

sunblue,

Your post really moved me and I experienced all sorts of emotions, so, if I seem abrupt, please realize that I just really feel strongly about you getting help and hopefully getting OUT of that situation soon.  Please read my comments, knowing that I have the deepest concern and care about you and that I want to see you break free.


sun:

I'm left feeling guilty, feeling stupid, and feeling like a loser because I was not able to cope with this either as a child or as an adult in a more healthy manner.

THIS JUMPED OFF THE PAGE AT ME!
Sun, all those things you are feeling...guilt, ignorance, etc...let me just assure you that a CHILD IS NOT ABLE TO COMPREHEND abuse, so they put up protective walls, dissociate, fracture...ANY CHILD does this, not just you, Sun.  When the child becomes an adult, what happens is, he/she begins to have some ability to reason, to understand, and, to often realize that abuse is NOT RIGHT.

I think the biggest dilemma I see with abuse victims, is not that they don't know it's not right, because many of them KNOW that...it's that they don't realize IT WAS NOT DESERVED!

I want to encourage you to come to a place in yourself, through personal counseling (whether NPD maternal figure decides to join you or not, YOU need to be there for help for yourself)...come to a place that you realize I DID NOT DESERVE THIS ABUSE AND I DO NOT DESERVE IT NOW!

Until you come to such a place, you will stay in the situaiton you are in.  There are answers.  One thing I learned at my support group yesterday (which is also another avenue you might want to check out), is that THE REASON ABUSE HAPPENS, IS BECAUSE PEOPLE STAY SILENT ABOUT IT AND ALLOW THE ABUSER TO CONTINUE TO ABUSE.

I need to ask...other than us on this board, have you told anyone about what has been going on for years?  Have you reached out for help? If not, PLEASE DO SO IMMEDIATELY...I know it will be scary, I know you will fear what NPD's will do, but YOU NEED TO BREAK THE DON'T TALK DON'T TELL RULE ASAP, to set yourself free and END THE CYCLE of abuse.

I think my problem is I keep trying to attack this problem with logic.  My head thinks, "mothers should take interest in their children, try to help them, encourage and support them," but of course, logic doesn't work with NPDs.  It is just so hard to accept.  And the loneliness is palpable.  The depression is so deep.

No, you are RIGHT in seeing that the maternal figure in your situation is not meeting your needs for encouragement, support, security, love, whatever...that's not about attacking problems with logic...that is about thinking OBJECTIVELY!  To that, I say, "BRAVO!"

I usually don't feel this strong to talk so boldly to people on this group anymore, but I'm sensing that you are dealing with a "learned state of helplessness" and might just need a gentle nudge to take action.

I will definitely be praying for you to break out of this and find help!  Your post really moved me!

~Laura

[sun blue]

Authentic and ReallyMe:

Thank you so much for your posts!  So kind of you to reply.....as you know, kindness is something we have little experience with as children of NPDs....but I do so appreciate it.

In response to a few of your comments, let me share just a little of my experience.  I have been clinically depressed since a child but was only diagnosed as an adult about 10 years ago.  I sought help after a relatively short, but truly devastating relationship with a guy I later learned was NPD (as well as bi-polar and anti-social).  He devastated my life financially, emotionally, psychologically and physcially.  My NPD mother's only response to this situation was: "Now you'll never have anything or anyone in your life."  She was most concerned with the financial loss (substantial) I incurred as a result of this guy.  He turned out to be seriously evil.  I later learned he was a criminal who preyed on women like me and had charges against him all over the country.  Interestingly, years later, my NPD sister experienced a similar situation (an employee and good friend of hers stole from her in a big way).  My mother's response was to show enormous empathy and compassion for her and anger against the woman who did this to her.  My NPD mother spent every waking moment with my NPD sister at this point to help her through it.

At any rate, since being diagnosed, I have been in therapy on and off and tried many medications.  I currently am on medications and am in general counseling.  I don't currently have insurance so I see a counselor a couple times of month from this local agency.  However, what I have found with all these doctors is that they just don't give much credence to the issue of NPD and its effects on families.  I have done extensive research on the subject and started putting together some written materials to not only explain NPD to my "healthy" brother but to also include specific examples from our family and how it affected (in my view) each of us.  I also noted some incidents I had never revealed to him before of things that had happened to me.  (For example, at 11, I was molested by 3 older boys but had never told anyone.  Even at that age, I knew my first priority would be to protect my parents from that information and worried how they would cope with it.  Neither copes with seroius situations very well at all.  So, I never told them).  My brother never even acknowledged this information.

A few years back I was hospitalized for suicidal tendencies.  Before I left for the hospital, my mother just cried on the couch.  She never called or visited while I was there.  My dad's concern, as usual, was for how my mom felt.  Another time, I was feeling very, very low and was chatting online in a support room.  One of the chat room posters thought I was dangerously depressed and contacted the local police who knocked on my door to inquire about the situation.  After they left, my NPD mother just screamed at me, "Whatever it is, just go and get it off your chest already."  Obviously, her concern was the "humilation" she had to incur of having police at her door.

So, I really have tried to deal with this.  Psychologists, psychiatrsts, medication, study.  I've volunteered at my church teaching relgious education.  I really try and do my best but the depression never seems to subside.  It is such a shame that the mental healthy community doesn't take NPD seriously.  If you claim someone is a narcissist, invariably people just laugh.  It's no laughing matter in my book.

For me, one of the hardest things to deal with is trying to figure out why I was so affected by my NPD and co-dependent parents in a negative way and my younger brother was not.  He always had friends.  He has a wonderful wife and child, good job, nice home, everything you want out of life.  Yes, he's hurt that he can't have a closer relationship with my parents (mostly, he is bothered that his daughter doesn't get the kind of grandparents she deserves).  But he personally has never been adversely affected by it.  My older, NPD sister of course is a spitting image of my NPD mother.  Because she is successful in life (thanks in large part to my NPD mother who has helped her enormously in her career), she is the "chosen child".  I am the loser.  The failure.  The weak (depressed) one.  I admit that whenever I see my brother with his family, my heart just aches, not just because it is the kind of family I never experienced but also because I'll never have the opportunity to have that of my own.  And my mind just keeps thinking, "What did I do to deserve this?  What was wrong with me?"  The feeling of worthlessness is pervasive.

So, I'm desperately trying to find a job so I can move.  (By the way, my parents never encouraged independence and never wanted their kids to move out).  I know that when I do move out, I will be completely alone.  My parents will never initiate contact or take an interest in my life.  They will not try to help me.  I do find it interesting that one time I was able to cajole my co-dependent dad to a therapy session.  My therapist tried her best to get him to see how I felt and what his (and my mother's actions and behaviors) were doing to me.  But I guess he is just so invested in supporting my NPD mom and being her co-dependent partner in NPD supply, that he couldn't see it.  He basically told the therapist that "You know, some people don't believe in this (therapy)."  When responding to my questions regarding why he and my mom devote all their attention and time to my NPD sister who had so many terrible things to my brother and I, he told the therapist that my sister was "sick" and had a "nervous" condition so they had "no choice" but to spend all their time with her.  My therapist told him that even if that were true (she know from what I had told her previously that it wasn't), they shouldn't ignore their other children and their needs to spend time with their parents.  He just shook his head and re-iterated that he and my mom have always cared about all their children "equally".  It was so sad to hear because he was just in complete denial and refused to hear what we were saying.  After that, he refused to discuss it and won't help in any way.  By the way, when the therapist asked why they didn't try to get my "sick" sister help, he just smirked and said that she would never agree to see a doctor because she wasn't about to have any doctor tell her she was "crazy".

So alas, much more info than you asked for, but I thought a little background might help.  The truth is I don't know what to do now.  The loneliness and depression and worthlessness is just overwhelming at times and that is why I have been posting recently.  It makes me sad that I will go through this life never experiencing being loved or cared about by anyone. 

And, as we all know, there will never be any justice.  OUr NPD parents will never admit or acknowledge their neglect and abuse.  They will never want to help or love us.  There will never be anyone who acknowledges what they did to us and that we didn't deserve it.  There is no 12-step program for NPD survivors.

But this board is so wonderful.  I am so glad I discovered it.  Again, thank you so much for your posts.  It means so much for someone to listen and reply.

I hope you all are doing better on your own journey of healing, if healing is possible.  I envy those of you who have your own children.  You are able to stop the cycle and show your children the love and attention you never received.  And, equally important, you are able to receive love and attention from them.  I hope you can enjoy your relationship with them.

THanks again for listening.

[reallyME]

sunblue,

First of all NEVER SAY NEVER.  You have an ENTIRE LIFE still ahead of you, until you breathe your last breath.

And, as we all know, there will never be any justice.  OUr NPD parents will never admit or acknowledge their neglect and abuse.  They will never want to help or love us.  There will never be anyone who acknowledges what they did to us and that we didn't deserve it.  There is no 12-step program for NPD survivors.

Oh yes there is a 12-step program...it's called CODEPENDENTS ANONYMOUS...as well as many good books written on the topic...CRAZYMAKERS is just one such book...

WE HERE ACKNOWLEDGE what they did to you,and, if and when you reach out to other safe people, you will find that they really DO listen and believe you.  You just haven't met them yet.

there is hope, Sun!

~Laura

[sally]

Dear Roses & Sun Blue,

Welcome to the board. I think many of us here have had similar experiences.  Seems to me that both of you are at the beginning of your journeys to heal.

I'd like to recommend some books that gave me a great deal of perspective when I began my journey:

Adult Children: The Secrets of Dysfunctional Families by John C. Friel Ph.D.
If You Had Controlling Parents:  by Dan Neuharth
Toxic Parents:  by Susan Forward
Children of the Self-Absorbed:  by Nina W. Brown
Where to Draw the Line: How to Set Healthy Boundaries Every Day by Anne Katherine

I recommend these books because when I began my journey, I had many ideas and memories swimming around inside my head and I didn't have an overall frame work for dealing with this.  These books gave me a perspective on which to build on.

I see your both looking for work, so check the library for these books.

I am so sorry you went thru these nightmares.  But it's great that you found this board and you're working on this.

Love,
sally

[sally]

Dear Roses & Sun Blue,

I also recommend reading Dr. Grossman's essays here at the site:  http://www.voicelessness.com (scroll down)

Love,
sally