The twins: blame and shame

[Poppyseed]

I am trying to understand myself better and as I look within I am seeing patterns in my behavior that I feel like I need to free myself from.  There have been many unfortunate events in my life.  None worse than what many of you have seen and experienced.  I have been angry and in denial and in pain and trapped....and then somehow I have set myself free.  In some areas, though, I don't feel like I am free.  And because I am commited to becoming such, I am trying to determine why. 

My delimma is simple....I think about my N relatives and the pain and the blame and the shame all too often.  Usually, it comes early in the morning and I find it hard to divert my thinking.  My T said that I was like an animal in a trap....trying to get out and thinking of nothing else.  That was in that first conversation when I learned that I was dealing with Narcissism. I have looked at the PTSD symptoms and tried to calm them and heal them.  I have finally gained the confidence and understanding of my H.  I have moved away from them.  I rarely answer email and phone calls from them.  Yet, I can't seem to get them off my mind.  I argue, silently in my head, with their blaming and shaming of me.  I also blame them and call them on the carpet. ( things I could never say to their face, even on my best day but that I wish they understood).  I think I am trying to get myself to understand some of the things I want them to understand.  I wonder why I need them to understand it. Especially now that I understand that people who struggle with N will rarely "get it".  So -- What is my problem?  I think I know. 

First, I don't know how to deal with blame.  From them or from anyone.  I hate being the scapegoat.  I feel victimized by it.  I feel trapped by it.  I feel others, former friends, are poisoned by it.  And I feel like I have no recourse to deal with the injustice of it.  I don't like being blamed when something is my fault.  Don't suppose anyone does.

Second, I think I am still blaming them.  Still feeling a sense of victimhood.  Still blaming myself and shaming myself for mistakes I have made.  Not knowing how to let it go for them, or for myself. Although, I am doing better with regards to myself.   And I am afraid the abuse will happen again.  And blaming somehow protects me.  As does anger. 

I kind of feel frustration because I don't do this with the people who sexually abused me, even though I deal with the effects still today.  I don't blame my foo anymore.  But I do my il's.  Why do I need to do that?? 

Seems to me that I am in the process of freeing myself from the traps.  And it seems to me that one thing keeping me tied to them and their harmful influence is my blame of them.  Seems like concrete on my feet.  Keeping me trapped in the pain.

I don't like being blamed, especially for thing I didn't do,feelings I didn't have, and interpretations of my behavior that are inaccurate. 

I don't like blaming because it brings along with it labels.  I don't like to be labeled.  "Jerk", "plate thrower" (i was accused of throwing plates.  I have never thrown a plate in my life).  "bad kid"  "evil".  Even on this board, I have heard labels of good members and bad members.  Not sure I like that in a forum like this.  It makes me nervous to attach labels.  Even the N label I struggle with, even though it truly is the best explanation for the behavior I see and experience.  But I qualify that by saying that I am not a professional and can't know for sure if my assessment is totally correct or to what degree I am correct.  But, in the same breath, I think I am pretty close if nothing else.

I don't like blaming because punishment seems to be the goal of it.  "They hurt me.  Shut them off.  Ignore them.  Make them feel the pain.  Label them"  and other black and white thinking.

I don't like blaming because it usually makes one party totally right and the other totally wrong.

I don't like blaming because I think it prevents real listening and investigating before we react to situations and intentions behind behavior.  It also prevents negotiations and problem solving. 

I don't like being blamed and judged and labeled for my mistakes.  If I do something hurtful, I wish that individual would come to me with it, try to understand, let me listen and try to understand, apologize, negotiate solutions, let me make amends, forgive each other, move on.

I don't like blame because it keeps me from embracing personal responsibility. 

I don't like blame because it is not very merciful.  It is not kind.  It is not understanding.  It is not forgiving.  It does not bring out the best in me.

I don't like blaming myself.  It makes me relentless and perfectionistic and depressed and weighed down with shame .  It makes me feel shame so easily which is quicksand for me.

I don't like blaming because I don't get anywhere.  I complain and complain and complain.  I don't move forward.  I don't let things go.  I don't heal.  I stew in my own juices. Stagnate and fester! The offenses sometimes exaggerate themselves.  I stay in victimhood.  And that is just plain powerless.  And it kinda makes me sick to think about it.

I sometimes think blame needs to be put somewhere to satisfy my sense of justice.  But, don't feel any justice when I am blaming myself and/or others.

I think blaming others gives them all the power in the world to continue hurting me. As I blame myself, I continue to hurt myself. 

I think blaming is reactive and defensive.

Blaming doesn't allow negotiation, listening, fact finding, understanding, problem solving, or conflict negotiation.

I don't think shame belongs anywhere.  I think I need to avoid shame at all costs.

I dont think God engages in blame and shame.  I think God deals in personal responsibility.  I think that God chastizes and listens, educates and helps, engages in boundaries and natural consequences, forgives and forgets, endlessly loves the most unloveable among us.  Maybe we need to blame a bit at the beginning of our healing but I think it is dangerous and corosive to stay there.

Thank you for listening to my ramblings.  Seems I have many feelings on this and I am not sure I am expressing it well. Trying......

Poppy

[Hopalong]

Wow Poppy.

A hymn to responsibility/accountability, a strong light on blame.

I agree so much.

hugs
Hops

[Poppyseed]

Hi Authentic,  Don't think I have truly had the pleasure.  I appreciate your perspective.  I surely hope I can figure it out and set myself free.  Trying to figure out the whys behind it all is a challenge.  Thanks for chiming in and pointing me towards the peaceful lands!

Hey Hops!  As always I love your presence.  Thanks for chiming in!

I will check this thread next week.  I am headed for the mountains.  We rented a cabin for four days near a mountain resort.  I am determined to rest and relax and leave my worries behind.  See you all in a few days. 

TTFN (ta ta for now),
Poppy

[Hopalong]

Aww, Besee,
You give me such a glimmer of PTSD.
I am so sorry you go through this.

Is there any research on whether hypnosis can help with PTSD?

(I am a true believer in clinical hypnotherapy.)

hugs
Hops

[Certain Hope]

Dear Poppy,

I just want to say that everything you've expressed here and all you're going through is so familiar to me... that it's all normal, parts of the process... and you are moving through, making great progress, which is clear to me by the fact that you're able to put it all into writing this way. Sorting through this mess is alot of work... and you're doing very, very well, I think!

Everything you've written about blame and shame... I agree 100%.

About this:  "I kind of feel frustration because I don't do this with the people who sexually abused me, even though I deal with the effects still today.  I don't blame my foo anymore.  But I do my il's.  Why do I need to do that?? "

For me, there've been a couple of factors involved in this.
When I was in the midst of struggling with npd-ex, I experienced a phase of intense anger against my parents... and it really made no sense to me at the time,  because back then, I was not consciously aware of so much that I now see. It was all so out of proportion.. and only recently have I been able to unveil the source of it.
So maybe there's more lying beneath the surface with regard to your original family, beyond the abuse with which you've already dealt... maybe more to be forgiven... I don't know.

Also, I think with in-laws, there is a particular sore spot.
For me, it went something like this: "Sheesh... I've put up with so much from your son/brother, and tried so hard to make things work...
who are you people to be giving me grief?!?!!"
Oh, do I ever remember just how infuriating it was...  to think that I'd have to prove anything at all to those people, to defend myself against them, to be so misunderstood and misrepresented by them... after all my husband and I and our children had been through.

It's different than with our original families, especially difficult when we've made such a major investment of our lives, our hearts and our devotion and effort into the marriage and family we create... only to find that it's devalued, unappreciated, and mocked by people we maybe really don't like all that much in the first place!
But the fact is, for me, it was a matter of pride. In fact, I just faced another really large lump of that last night, and oh what a relief to lay it down... and what an excellent incentive to never pick it back up again!

Poppy, you're doing great, really & truly. You've got it goin on

With love,
Hope

[roses in her eyes]

Poppy-

Thanks for your rant, actually. I can identify with your position in a lot of ways.  Shame is just blame that you have internalized and I feel it too. It's just terrible. It makes no sense and yet it's still there. 

The urge to hurt back (and can blame certainly do that to a N), is no doubt something you learned from the master, but it's a positive sign that you can at least see that it is a destructive urge. That's huge.

I know what to say to hurt my NM. And sometimes she can rile me up enough to take a "verbal swing" at her, so to speak. This usually amounts to my confronting her with something impossibly mean that she really did to me. That really sets her off.

It's really easy to get sucked into their game, I know.  But you are safe here because this is the one place where they can never go.  They can never understand the reality of what we are discussing in this forum. Even if they read every post, they still would never understand.  I know how hard it is to find that feeling of fairness and safety, I really do.

[Poppyseed]

Roses,

Thanks for chiming in.  For me the blame thing isn't really about hurting them back.  It is more about assigning responsibility back to them and defending myself against the scapegoating and blame I feel constantly from them. They, I know now, will never get it.  And I understand better why they need someone to blame.  But why do I care?  Why do I care so much about changing their perceptions and ideas about my thoughts and feelings (which are wrong....and designed to be what they need them to be to make me the bad one or unrighteous one) and actions?  Why do I need to pursue, if only in my head, justice for the ways in which I feel I have been wronged?  For some reason, I need their approval still on some level.  That piece scares me a lot.  Why is it there?  And more importantly, how can I extricate that from my thinking?  So desperate to do accomplish that part of my healing.  Not needing so much from the outside world to know that I am good.  It hurts so much for my FOO to believe I am the problem of the family and then to move on to my H's fam and find that as well.  In so many ways, I feel like an orphan looking for a home.  Pathetic, huh?  If Hope is right about me, and she usually is (thanks Hope,XO), then I am in a process and somewhere I won't feel the need to fight for myself so much.

Thanks for identifying with the post.  That helps me feel so much better, stangely.  Guess I really need that validation.

Hope,
You always hear more in me than I even see.  Thanks for that and the empathetic encouragement. And thank you for the perspective you give by sharing your similar experience.  It helps to orient myself in the sea of emotion and confusion as I try to emerge from the deep dark forrest!  I hear what you are saying about the pride thing. There are times I think it is pride and I censure myself.  Other times I am not sure that is what it is at all.   Confusion usually sets in at this point.



Authentic,

My N-ils will not get it.  I know that so accutely.  I tried for so long to help them see.  Now, I don't try to make them understand -- except in my own head.  Sometimes I wonder if it is  Me I am truly trying to convince.  Or maybe it is that I believe what they think. Why? I think them more credible than me.  I have lots of evidence that tells me so. I like myself.  And I trust my gut.  But, then this other side of me doesn't and devalues and discredits my intincts.  Just because they do.  It seems I have a fight going on inside of me. And I am trying to figure out why.

Thanks. Love and Goo to all of you!
Pops

[roses in her eyes]

  In so many ways, I feel like an orphan looking for a home.

I know exactly how you feel.

[Certain Hope]

Dear Poppy,

I didn't begin to see the face of the real issues until I'd deeply experienced that orphaned disconnectedness from my own family.  As you expressed in another post, it's a sense of being unheard, irrelevant... invisible.
For me, that really sank in after our last visit with my parents this past July. Through reading and sharing with other members here, and reviewing Dr. G's essays again, I realized that it really does all go back to them. There was so much left unsaid and undone, un-nurtured, unappreciated and undervalued... such a void left behind. Every single person since that time, who has brought into the picture abuse, betrayal, misunderstanding, devaluing, and shame... they've all fed the void. Voids get hungry, too... especially when they're busy pretending to be the originating source of all forward movement.

Saying aloud that my parents do not even know me, nor have they ever sought to know me... well, acknowledging the facts opened so many doors for me; so last week I sent them a letter introducing myself. Writing this to them made it official in my mind and in my heart, so no matter how they respond, or whether they respond, I have at least spoken the truth. There's alot of power in speaking the truth, especially the truth of who we are in Christ.
Being a new creation, alot of the old stuff just doesn't fit anymore. It lingers around and tries to insert itself back into its old hiding places... but like a foreign object, the new spirit is determined to expel it. All the while, the unrenewed mind is wondering: "what in the world is going on and why am I always the last to know?"   
So that's the battle, I think, Poppy. Renewing our minds to who God says we are, because His view is the only one that counts, imo. Starve the void.

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

Sorry I got here so late Poppy.

I'll have to re read this post again when I have more time but....

in my experience.... it's very freeing to let go of the desire to figure things out, as far as other people go.

I don't really feel I have to place blame anymore..... just figure out what's mine and what I can do to fiture it out and keep moving forward.

It was so freeing to turn away from other people's stuff.... from their accusations and simply be amused before looking back inside at myself... at what's important.

I don't know how I could have taken one step forward when I was constantly distracted by other people's actions.  

It's sort of like giving up..... at first.

Soon enough though.... it's a blessing and a releif to just worry about what you can control.  

[Poppyseed]

Thanks Light and Hope!

Your names are really fitting, you know?  Lighter you are clear.  You see the important things in the landscape.  You cut through the crap...the confusion and point me to the road....to what is really effective.  I am starting to gain strength to do the things I know that I need to.

Hope, you are a living example of banishing doubt and fear and leaning on the only source of everlasting Hope! You are always gentle....always a balm!  Your description of what the fight really is, I appreciate today.  Helping me to understand what is happening in me from outside of myself is helpful.

You are both beautiful!  Could I borrow that feeling of having older sisters who care?

poppy

[Certain Hope]

LOL @ older sister     oh, my... I love it!  I'm afraid that between Lighter and me, I'll be the oldest sis, but hey, I'll take it!
Always wished I'd had a sister 

Yes, yes... I would love to be one of your older sisters, dear Pops      T'would be an honor and my pleasure!!

Thanks for the tickle!

Love,
OldSis

[Poppyseed]

Sorry I got here so late Poppy.

I'll have to re read this post again when I have more time but....

in my experience.... it's very freeing to let go of the desire to figure things out, as far as other people go.

I don't really feel I have to place blame anymore..... just figure out what's mine and what I can do to fiture it out and keep moving forward.

It was so freeing to turn away from other people's stuff.... from their accusations and simply be amused before looking back inside at myself... at what's important.

I don't know how I could have taken one step forward when I was constantly distracted by other people's actions.  

It's sort of like giving up..... at first.

Soon enough though.... it's a blessing and a releif to just worry about what you can control.  

I was thinking about what you said here, lighter, and a few more thoughts came to mind.....

Letting go the need to figure things out is challenging for me.  I seem to be addicted to it.  I don't think I ever want to be accused of not understanding or trying to understand someone else's feelings or perspective.  I might miss the boat on balance here.

Sometimes I don't know what to do with other people's accusations.  Sometimes it is clear that I don't have any responsibility and in that case I can see the power in handing that stuff back and detaching from what I cannot control.  But, I sometimes feel that I don't want to miss caring about someone elses feelings and perceptions of my behavior.  If I hurt someone,and they are angry and hurt, I  would like to be able to address that issue and adjust my behavior accordingly.  Sometimes when I think of detaching from others and their behavior, it feels like too drastic a move.  Like i would have to become un-sensitive.  And I am not able, or not wired to be that removed and distanced.  I sense and feel everything whether I like it or not.  I sometimes miss things because of denial.  Sometimes misinterpret events because of filters on my thinking but I usually sense a lot of the interpersonal interchanges I observe.  I guess I am trying to say that I don't want to be someone that never cares about what others think and feel and experience.  Again, I think it is the difficulty of  finding a healthy balance.  And too often my sensitivity does hijack my efforts and I do become distracted by the actions of others. 

I feel a sense of frustration right at this moment with myself.  Trying so hard to find that balance and watching myself pulled between the two sides.