Author Topic: How to deal with my N mother?  (Read 3048 times)

el123

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How to deal with my N mother?
« on: May 02, 2004, 02:35:58 PM »
I have an enormous family and my mother has always treated us all very differently.  I have been the target of her attacks for most of my life.  She has constantly put me down.  She was verbally and physically abusive.  Especially when I was becoming a woman and started looking good (before this I went through a gawky period with long skinny legs, freckles, etc).  She literally attacked me when I got my period for the first time.  When my body was becoming more of a woman's she attacked me daily.  She was only satisfied when I was crying and a mess.  When I was feeling good, she'd shoot me down hard.  She used to pretend that she was me on the phone (she sounds like me enough to do this!) and tell my friends things that would make them angry.  She would tell me that I'm evil and God didn't like/love me or was punishing me.  She has always been ultra "religious".  Anyways, my older sister told me that she thought that mom was/is jealous of me because I looked better than her, etc.  Strange and twisted but I felt when she said it that there was truth in it.  She has always pit the others in the family against me.  She would isolate me from the others, wouldn't let me watch tv while everyone else was, would tell them not to talk/ hang out with me because I was "bad".  I still have no idea what was "bad" about me.  I never got bad grades, never got into trouble, never even dated in high school.  But she still had/has this destruction campaign waged against me.  

Anyways, my sister Eileen is a "good" kid and she has two children.  Her campaign of destruction against me has taken a twist since I have become a mother.  My mother favors Eileen's children over mine (I have 3).  She believes Eileen's kids are hers (no exaggeration here.  She truly believes that these are HER children, not her grandchildren and Eileen lets her do this).  And now she compares "her" children to my children.  It's so aggravating.  I have six other sisters and two brothers yet my mother usually only discusses Eileen and her kids to me every time we talk.  I have told her repeatedly I don't want to talk about them, have hung up on her when she does, etc. when she brings them up but she won't let up unless I cut her off for a while and then she'll behave until she reels me back in and then "whammo" back to how Eileen and her family compare to mine.  Just to give you an example of how she turns every conversation around to Eileen:  mom:  "Is it raining there?  me: "yes"  mom:  "Oh, it's raining at Eileen's house to (we live in the SAME town).  Oh, and by the way, Eileen... blah blah blah.  

I feel almost like an outcast even on this board because both my mother and my MIL and also my BIL are all N's!!!  Full blown cookie cutter N's.  My H had not spoken to his mother or brother in over a month (yay H!!).  And I have limited contact to almost nothing with my mother.  It just really hurts to not have any mother in my life.  Even my own sisters don't get it as my mother attacks me in private (on the phone, when noone else is there, etc.) And my mother gives them a different story.  "Oh, E is so hard to talk to," etc.  And so my siblings tell me stuff like "You two jsut have different personalities".  It's so invalidating for noone to see it/ get it.  My mother is a master of manipulating people and they literally don't see/ hear what she does to me and then gets on the phone and twists the story to make me look bad and her innocent.  Typical N, I know.  

She always seems to hone in on my weak spots and attacks.  For example, I dropped my oldest off at her place (something I rarely do but had a dr's appmnt and had no other babysitter).  Since she had me under her thumb, she decided to squash me.  She once again brought up Eileen and her kids.  Telling me the same story she had repeated over and over.  I told her (as nicely as I could) to please talk about anyone or anything else.  She attacked.  With my daughter right there, told me that she would "hate it if I was her mother because she has to watch everything she says around me."  Then she turned to my daughter and said "I would hate to have your mother for a mother".  My daughter is six years old.  Anyways, I had to leave or I'd be late for my appointment and it took me a full day to figure out what happened.  This is what happens to me.  I can't process it right away.  I shut off or something and then I figure out that she was not being nice to me or my poor daughter.  Then I spent the next couple of weeks struggling with anxiety over not standing up for myself in front of my daugher.

Do any of you face this type of thing?  I have basically cut out my mother from my life but am not ready to cut her off cold turkey just yet.  Am I being irresponsible?  Thanks for letting me vent.  I can relate so much to so many here, especially guest (cg) because your mother sounds a lot like mine in many ways.  Especially the sadistic elements to her personality.   -E

Wildflower

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2004, 07:45:56 PM »
Hi el,

Just want to start by saying you're certainly not an outcast here - though I can understand you feeling isolated in your family.  I remember when you first posted about your MIL, and I gather it must be painful to be seeing your mother this way now.  Feel kinda stuck in a crazy world?  I think I know how that feels (NFather, NGrandmother, and though I hate to admit it NMother...maybe...yuck).  This stuff is hard.

But here are my impressions from what you said.  Your mom definitely sounds jealous of you.  I'm still plodding through When You and Your Mother Can't be Friends and I just finished a section about how some mothers can be jealous of their daughters because they're competing for attention from their husbands.  What you say about your mother's attack on your becoming a woman makes me think she was either jealous or threatened by her own femininity - or both.  I hear that your other siblings didn't quite get this treatment.  That must be disorienting.

Congrats to your H!!!  That's fantastic.  Wishing both of you strength to continue down that path.

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it took me a full day to figure out what happened. This is what happens to me. I can't process it right away. I shut off or something


I really recommend reading more books on N behavior because yes, it's baffling because it just doesn't seem real when it's happening.  I'm the same way about taking forever to process stuff (still working on stuff from decades ago :wink: ), but if you can use the N literature to brace yourself before being with your mom, maybe that'll help protect you in future encounters.

Regarding not respecting your wishes, I've found that most healthy people will respect your requests to avoid topics and such.  Within reason, of course.  Can't ask a person to change, but I'm remembering several incidents right now where I explicitly asked my dad to stop doing x, y, or z and he went into a rage going from blaming me for being inadequate or stifling to declaring that it was his right to do as he pleased.  So I can understand how maddening it must be to hear your mother say those things to you - especially in front of your daughter.

Take care and stay strong,
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2004, 08:46:53 PM »
Your mother is very, very sick. Unfortunately she is extremely destructive and she has picked you as a target. My feedback is to have as little contact with her as possible. She has decided that *you* will be the container for all of her rage and hatred. This won't help you at all. Are you in therapy? It could really help you with support. Your siblings are probably just praying that they won't be next. They're in the tragic position of keeping you as the scapegoat. This puts them in major denial.

And you aren't an outcast here. My MIL was the biggest N I've ever seen. I have a BIL who's a sociopath.

bunny

el123

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2004, 06:49:35 AM »
I know logically that I'm not an outcast here, that others are going through what I do.  This "outcast" feeling is one I struggle with everywhere, though.  It's very hard for me to feel like I fit in anywhere.  I have been going to my church now for over a year but haven't become a member, feel "different" or freakish from other people.  Does anyone else get this?  I also have major trust issues.  I don't trust the people that I should trust (doctors, my H, even my friends to some degree) and I trust people I shouldn't (I seem to be a target for crazies, I get told this a lot).  

Wildflower, I think you are right that my mother is threatened by feminity.  I never thought of that before and will give me lots to think about.  I've got to get that book you are reading.  I've read a couple of books on N since my last post : The Wizard of Oz and other N's and Why is it Always About You.  I usually do brace myself before every call or encounter but she is a master at it.  An evil genius, I swear  :twisted: She doesn't do it every time and the second my guard is down, she strikes.  Sometimes she "gets" me and other times I become a Zen master and don't let her in.  I know what you mean about your dad going into a rage when you ask him not to do stuff.  It's aggravating, huh?  It' so great to have this board to know that others go through stuff like this as well.

Bunny, yes, I am in therapy.  Been in and out of therapy for over a decade.  I started going because I was dealing with major anxiety over my own mothering.  I was determined to break the cycle which I have  :D but have dealt with panic attacks, severe anxiety whenever I felt I was doing a bad job.  Then I realized that a lot of these attacks seemed to coincide with being around my mother or after having talked to her.  So it didn't take long to put two and two together.

-E

Wildflower

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2004, 01:51:41 PM »
Hi el,

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I know logically that I'm not an outcast here, that others are going through what I do. This "outcast" feeling is one I struggle with everywhere, though. It's very hard for me to feel like I fit in anywhere. I have been going to my church now for over a year but haven't become a member, feel "different" or freakish from other people. Does anyone else get this? I also have major trust issues. I don't trust the people that I should trust (doctors, my H, even my friends to some degree) and I trust people I shouldn't (I seem to be a target for crazies, I get told this a lot).


This was a big problem for me for a long time.  I could barely go outside without feeling like everyone could ‘see’ what a freak I was.  It took a long time and a lot of practice and a lot of interacting with healthy people to stop feeling this way.  And more recently, it took getting to the bottom of WHAT made me think I was such an outcast (in my case “monster”).  But no, you’re not alone in this.  I think it’s part of growing up in a household where you’re constantly rejected.

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I usually do brace myself before every call or encounter but she is a master at it. An evil genius, I swear  She doesn't do it every time and the second my guard is down, she strikes. Sometimes she "gets" me and other times I become a Zen master and don't let her in.


In that case, I’d really recommend the Children of the Self Absorbed book if you don't already have it because it has exercises in it designed to help you understand how they gain control – and how to keep them from doing it.  I haven't read the whole book, but even the little I have read has been tremendously helpful to me.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

el123

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2004, 04:12:29 PM »
Hi Wildflower,

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And more recently, it took getting to the bottom of WHAT made me think I was such an outcast (in my case “monster”).


Wow, Wildflower, I have that same 'monster' fear as well!  I've been trying to get to the bottom of it as well.  

Thanks for the book suggestion.  I'll put that on my reading list! -E.

mcg31360

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 11:45:28 PM »
Hi El:

It takes a great deal of energy to deal with Ns.  I come from a long line of them.  I've been beat up  quite a lot over the years and finally decided it was in my best interest to cut them out of my life.  I can relate to most of what your talking about.  Read everything you can about Ns.  It will make you feel better about yourself.  The less contact your daughter has with them, the better.

seeker

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 12:49:58 PM »
Hello el,

I've been away from the board a bit and haven't read everything (too much to catch up on).  But I'm really glad I read your post!  Everything you've said, I have felt too.  When I read about your mom's jealousy, I immediately thought of Cinderella!  Somehow your mom knew that your beauty had power, so into the cellar you go!  **

I am also a veteran outcast.  I wasn't allowed to have friends over.  My parents didn't tell me this of course.  But my mom would criticize their behavior or my dad would give me a sour look that told me this was a major inconvenience for him.  It was THEIR house not our house.  My mom had me wear clothes that were out of fashion or didn't fit.  When I innocently pointed out the problem, she would just dismiss my comments.  She truly didn't care to help me socially.

We also moved a lot and have lived in different "economic" neighborhoods due to my dad's rise in the workforce.  This is really disorienting.  I do know that I truly identify with the underdog, not the winner.  People who have grown up with money know the ones who haven't and don't want to get contaminated else they fall from their status level.  People with less money can think people with more money are condescending snobs.  I know in my head that part of this is "their stuff" but I also know I am the catalyst for their reactions sometimes and there is distance.  But where do I fit in?  People always have less or more...

Anyway, I usually relate to phrases like
"I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member" Woody Allen or Groucho Marx said this.  
"I have formed the 'Modesty Club'.  Membership of one." Mark Twain.  
But the thoughts that have really helped me (I'm still working on all this) are
"Accept your acceptance."  
"I belong here."  
"Bloom where you are planted" Einstein.  
Just by being here, you belong and are part of the natural order of things.  

As far as your mother's comments about your sister, don't put bullets in her gun.  If you tell her what bothers you, you now know that she will use it expressly to bother you.  This is her goal, so don't help her.  I know this sounds backward but that's life in the N Hall of Mirrors.  

**Suggest you read the original version of Cinderella and perhaps a scholarly interpretation of it.  In the original, C is rescued by biding her time and claiming her power at the right moment.  It is C using her power and defeating her relatives that is her victory, not the prince "rescuing" or "choosing" her.  Your mother knows you have power.  It's time to start using it in an appropriate way.  Sort of a martial arts thing: truly powerful people don't show off or use their power all the time, only when they need to.  You must defeat or at least disarm your mother's power over your feelings. May the force be with you.  Seeker.

SY1T

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2004, 01:19:14 PM »
This certainly sounds like what I grew up with.  I also was kept from my friends or if they were allowed over my mom inserted herself into being their friends and circle around her.

In church my sister & I were considered normal and our family life was normal.  Yet in the car, on the way home, those people we saw or ran into were criticized.  Then living at the house, we were told, you live in our house, you live under our rules.  So we moved out as soon as possible.

I like that this board is called voicelessness.  In our house we could speak, but if we said something wrong we had the priviledge of being smacked across the face into being quiet.

The surprise came later on in life, when we had moved out and these different church people came up stating they were glad we had gotten out of the house.

So now most of the time I enjoy being away from the situation with friends I've met who are truly what I would call family.  It's just those nagging times when the summons comes to pay attention to mom and all her problems without any resolution.  It is hard though for people (except this board) to understand that there are mothers who are not very motherly.  I know in nature there are sometimes father's who eat their own children - but it also seems that mother's do the same thing (it's just not as acceptable to talk about it.

el123

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2004, 06:26:31 AM »
seeker, the Cinderella image is one I've thought of many times as well.  My mother would treat my other siblings well (especially in front of me) as she was either punishing me or isolating me.  

All that moving must have been really hard.  I know what you meant about identifying with the underdog.  

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As far as your mother's comments about your sister, don't put bullets in her gun. If you tell her what bothers you, you now know that she will use it expressly to bother you. This is her goal, so don't help her. I know this sounds backward but that's life in the N Hall of Mirrors.


wow, you hit this right on.  That's exactly what she does.

mcg31360,

I may have to eventually cut my N mother out of the picture.  I'm open to that possibility.  We've already done it to both our MIL and BIL.  Thanks for your input.

SYIT,

sounds like we went through similar things.
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I like that this board is called voicelessness. In our house we could speak, but if we said something wrong we had the priviledge of being smacked across the face into being quiet.


Ha haha, I know what you mean!
 
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know in nature there are sometimes father's who eat their own children - but it also seems that mother's do the same thing (it's just not as acceptable to talk about it.


This is something that I've been thinking about lately.  The almost saint like quality that mothers have in people's minds.  I think that for the most part it is true.  Mothers are extremely loving towards their children.  It does seem to be true that there's a hesitancy to break that mother image.  Most people seem reluctant to go there.  
-E

Portia

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2004, 06:41:27 AM »
Hiya El, I put it down to the male-dominated Christian religions where the Virgin Mary plays a big part – it’s such an immediate put-down to all women: if you can’t have a baby without sh*gging, you’re less than perfect.

But it does put the position of motherhood as the ultimate aim and the second-to-top sacrifice. And of course (faithful, monogamous) mothers are necessarily saintly in Mary’s image. (And women who aren’t are the lowest of the low, which I guess is why women feel bad about divorce? Don’t!)

It’s the Bad Mommy taboo in society. And I reckon to an extent it allowed men, through religion, to have a handle on pregnancy and childbirth. If women are allowed to keep these mysterious processes to themselves and build their own religions around them, they become too powerful, if there is any power struggle afoot.

Don’t get me wrong I love people, men and women, it’s the current day legacy of religion that gets me going – like the taboo against saying my mother is less than perfect! Phew, sorry, soapbox issue there. P

JustKathy

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How to deal with my N mother?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2004, 07:46:01 PM »
El:

I too am the target of my mother's attacks. Like you, it started in my teens . . . when I got my period, breasts, everything that made me look like I was growing up. She became outraged when boys started noticing me, and began sabotaging my dates. She would give me the green light to go out, then when the boy arrived to pick me up she would claim that she had NOT given me permission, would make a scene and humiliate me in front of the guy. I also started to think that she was jealous of me for being prettier or more popular than she was at my age. (One of my aunts had told me that M was a "problem child" in school). Years later my therapist came to the same conclusion. M would not allow me to have anything that she herself did not have at that age.

I have never had children myself. I guess I was afraid of being like my M, even though that probably wouldn't happen. There was just something inside me that screamed "break the cycle." Oddly enough, both my sister and brother who were NOT victimized by M have also opted to remain childless. Even though they act oblivious to my plight, perhaps they saw a little something that sent up a red flag? I don't know. I've never talked to them about it.

My mother is also incredible convincing, but my therapist tells me that most N's are. For years no one believed me. In fact, I was 40 before I found a therapist who believed everything I said.

I have distanced myself from my mother over the years but made the decision to cut her off cold turkey last Christmas. It has not been easy. It DOES hurt, even though she is a wicked witch who has left me with deep emotional scars. And believe me, it took a LOT of therapy to make me see that I was doing what was best for my own physical and mental health.

I really can't offer any advice where your children are concerned, not being a parent myself, but I can tell you that you are not alone . . . NOT an outcast on this board. I found this board just recently, and haven't posted a whole lot due to my busy schedule, but when I have come here I can tell you it has been a very healing experience. To talk to people in similar situations has done wonders for me after so many years of people looking at me with total disbelief.

I'll stop rambling now, but I wanted you to know that I related very much to your post and understand much of what you have experience. Know that you are NOT alone and that ther are people out there who DO believe you.

Kathy