My Personal Message/Authentic's Reaction

[gratitude28]

Dear Authentic and all here,
As you all know, I received an unkind message this week. The person who sent it obviously feels I am not ont he same track as she and others here. I am sorry that this person had a reaction to me and my words. The reason I have chosen not to put her name here is that I feel we all need help here. No one needs help more than another. We need to be here for each other. At the same time, I hope that all of you will be able to see, especially the newcomers, that some nasty words cannot hurt you. We are all special, and every contributing member helps here, because someone can identify with you.
Authentic, I am not sure why you felt that others thought you would send me that message. I know that we have had ups and downs, but I was happy to see you back and I think you bring good points to the table and a necessary stream of information we can all use. I am sorry you had the perception that people blamed you. I really don't think they did and I would not lead them to think that way. I hope you are feeling better and that you will continue to help us here.
Thank you all. I think the message is a past deal... but if any of you ever feels attacked in such a manner, please make sure to protect yourself. Keep the evidence. Send it to Dr. Grossman, post it here. Whatever you need to do. It is important to be proactive.
Love, Beth

[Ami]

I don't want to be a 'tattle" tale'  with Dr.G,  but I will start documenting.                  Love   Ami

[Certain Hope]

I agree.
Well said, Bean... and thank you. I haven't been able to put it into words because ambient abuse is so hard to detail... but that's it.
I just believe that it'll all come out in the wash.

Carolyn

thank you beth

I think the reason I have not kept the evidence in the past is because the person edited the post before I could copy and paste it.  Or, it was so subtle that I was afraid Dr. G wouldn't see it and then I was afraid I wasn't "Letting GO"

So I didn't want to shame myself further by thinking something would be done in my defense and then nothing would be done and I would feel worthless.

Oy.  I love this place but sometimes I hate it.

I guess your personal message was a clear-cut case of content-less taunting, but they are not always so.  And I think some very sick, very intelligent people here can mask their abuse just enough that it is almost undetectable - except to the person receiving. 

No, I can't prove this.  But I feel in my heart when someone chases you around the board posting in response to your posts, and criticizing needlessly, that it is abusive.  Especially when you've already pointed out to them (only once) that you disagree with them.  Yet, they go On and On.

bean

[gratitude28]

Bean,
You are right - people do taunt. I have avoided those people here. I often do not read their posts and rarely, if ever, write to them if I feel they are doing this. It's kind of like with my kids - notice the nice behavior, but not the brattiness. Sometimes I think people look for attention, and responding to their taunting gives them that satisfaction.
When I post a question here, I get a huge array of recommendations and responses. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to care about my post. There are answers I receive that do not agree with my outlook or opinions at times. Again, while I appreciate the help, no matter in what form, I will give thanks to the person. I think this is the same subject in that  am saying, it all goes back to 'take what you need and leave the rest.'
You have had to deal with hard things at work. If you focused on all the negative people, just getting out of bed would be excrutiating. It's a life skill. Filter....
Thanks bean for being here.
Love, Beth

[gratitude28]

Ami and Carolyn,
To bring this back to our personal Ns... my mother is a huge taunter. And, like you have said here, it is hard to catch them at it sometimes. They are elusive. They give you sugar-coated shit, and expect you not to smell the underlying aroma. And they do get into tizzies when their taunting does not provide what they need - the attention.
Love, Beth

[Certain Hope]

Ami and Carolyn,
To bring this back to our personal Ns... my mother is a huge taunter. And, like you have said here, it is hard to catch them at it sometimes. They are elusive. They give you sugar-coated shit, and expect you not to smell the underlying aroma. And they do get into tizzies when their taunting does not provide what they need - the attention.
Love, Beth

I've only just begun to recognize the taunting, Beth. Since my mother's tizzies generally consist of the cold-shoulder treatment(and lots of passive-aggressive behavior behind the scenes), and since this is so common and continuous with her... I often wouldn't connect the dots and see what (if any) was the specific "slight" to which she was reacting.
There are many ways to taunt someone. One very covert method which I've experienced is the making of continuous, vague allusions to events which have been taken out of context and warped to suit the "victim's" sense of being a martyr. That's a major hot-button with me, because there's no way to resolve anything when a person is committed to re-writing history and too proud to admit that she may have misjudged.
So I just keep working on the study and application of boundaries, encouraged by the fact that nobody can dump on me what I refuse to take.

Love,
Carolyn

[changing]

Gratitude-

I am impressed by how gracious you are, and how you have handled yourself.

Love,

Changing

[gratitude28]

((((((((((((((((((((Changing))))))))))))))))))))
Thank you.
I am so glad you are a strong voice here.

Carolyn,
One of my mother's favorite games is to tell two or three stories about annoying things that have happened to me every time she sees me and is around other people. If I were to say, 'I don't find the story amusing,' it would sound like sour grapes. So I listen and smile wryly every time she retells it. It is always a story that makes me look foolish or annoying. She loves it. And how do you counteract that????? That is just one example... but there are so many ways to be sneaky like that.

Love, Beth

[Ami]

THAT story about your M is a perfect  example of HOW and WHY we got so screwed up. I am seeing it now. I want to shout for joy. Thanks for your story,Beth                 Love   Ami

[Certain Hope]

((((((((Beth)))))))  That's more my brother's style    and I used to just smile, too... inwardly wishing he'd just shut up.

I'm sitting here trying to think how I'd deal with it now, if he did that to my face...
and the old habit to make light of it would be hard to keep down.
But I'd like to think that I could say something directly, without sarcasm or trying to wound him back... something like "I outgrew that story 30 years ago. Why haven't you?"

I dunno.. that's gonna take some work and practice, but with anyone who seems to feel a constant need to downgrade you, attack your character, or try to make you look foolish... if ignoring them doesn't shut them up, I say it's time to draw a firm boundary.

Love,
Carolyn

[changing]

Hi -

I agree. There is a point at which beating a dead horse is not only ineffective, but creepy and pathological.
CH your mother continues her attention-getting and power seeking by setting you up, over and over with a never ending pattern. However, if you protest, try to tell your side of things, try to see the humor in the situation, or tell her to knock it off,then you are "rude" and she will cry about how you have hurt her with your " discoutesy". If you try to correct her irrationality, she will cry about your "viciousness". Of course she does this in public in order to achieve the maximum effect. She (all Ns) set themselves up as the arbitors of proper behavior and truth, even if they have to trounce and lie to do it. They live for this sort of exchange- perhaps if we don't respond to the dead horse beating, their little arms will tire (hard to do if it's your mother, though) . You are a kind and patient soul.

Hugs,

Changing

[Iphi]

My dad's modus operandi is to accuse me of dark thoughts and deeds and evil motives, usually out of the blue sky.  Actually, my mother in my early years used to do just the same - when I was very small (2 and 3 years old) she used to accuse me of intending to murder my younger sister and various other things too. 

This recent brouhaha has triggered me horribly as I have personally felt that I personally am an N, brutally non-responsive by not immediately giving what is demanded of me, am told that my action or non-action means something bad about me, told that I am denying true reality for reasons that are shameful and say bad things about me as a person.  Because of my own background, I am always Them.  I am Them.  The Other Guy.  The One doing the bad thing.

It has been a whale of a struggle this week to stay non-reactive and bring awareness to my every huge shame trigger that I am constantly being thrown back into my own past by unrelated events in the present.  Talk about a growth opportunity.

Because of my personal perspective, I will never feel innocent or like the problem is what someone else is doing. 

However, I have recently found certain responses surprisingly effective with my dad.  A couple of years ago we were talking on the phone and the subject of how I used to go on to the back porch of his house to smoke came up and he worked up quite a tirade about how evil I am that I did that and did I think he didn't know that I was doing this terrible thing and disrespecting him that way and all sorts of bad things.  And I said "Another better parent would have reacted with concern at the time instead of contempt and scorn a decade later."  Since he is grandiose about his parenting - he was totally stymied.  I just put it back on him.   

[lighter]

 


::blink blink::

I had to read that again....

I'm pretty sure, everything you just wrote, has been on my mind lately.....though I couldn't have chosen the words or expressed them so well.

Hi -

I agree. There is a point at which beating a dead horse is not only ineffective, but creepy and pathological.
CH your mother continues her attention-getting and power seeking by setting you up, over and over with a never ending pattern. However, if you protest, try to tell your side of things, try to see the humor in the situation, or tell her to knock it off,then you are "rude" and she will cry about how you have hurt her with your " discourtesy". If you try to correct her irrationality, she will cry about your "viciousness". Of course she does this in public in order to achieve the maximum effect. She (all Ns) set themselves up as the arbitors of proper behavior and truth, even if they have to trounce and lie to do it. They live for this sort of exchange- perhaps if we don't respond to the dead horse beating, their little arms will tire (hard to do if it's your mother, though) . You are a kind and patient soul.

Hugs,

Changing

[gratitude28]

Iphi,
I am just feeling a lessening in that struggle - the struggle to control everything and make everything smooth. I also felt responsible and guilty about EVERYTHING. Heck, I felt like it was my fault if the weather was bad. We were conditioned that way. You need to override those thoughts. Oh, that person dropped her groceries. I will help her pick them up... but I am not responsible for being there when it happened. My friend comes to visit and the dog is not behaving nicely. I put him in the basement. I took care of the problem. But I am not at fault for the dog being a dog. I'm serious, I still get pangs of this.
(((((((((((((Iphi))))))))))))))
sTART CATCHING THOSE THOUGHTS AND REMINDING YOURSELF.
Ooops - caps lock. But I'll leave it.
Love, Beth

[Ami]

I am seeing that the reason that I don't like to be around people is that I have to control HOW they feel about me. I have given over my own approval for MYSELF to them. Therefore I am really stressed that if they don't like me,I can't   like me  either-- BLEH                                       Ami