About Stormchild-my thoughts

[cats paw]

To All,

    I am making a disclaimer first-  I am not taking sides, I just wanted to share an observation about myself.

    I have read Stormchild's blogs, and I find while reading them, the tone I hear is often one that I hear while reading her on the
  board, as well.  Some of these blogs are before I ever came to the board, so I am reasonably sure I did not make the mistake of   
  personalizing when I read the earlier ones.

    About the more recent ones, I was a bit confused as to whether if I was guilty of "if you spot it, you got it, " or if I was making a 
  cognitive error again because I was taught to feel so damn guilty of everthing. 

    Stormchild is extremely intelligent ( is that an understatement ? )  and I cannot help but admire that.  I admire it in so many 
  others, as well.  As Hops mentioned (in her gift to CB, was it?) I thrill to it.

     As intelligent and skilled as Stormchild is, I know that she can err. She is human.  She can see patterns, some of her "random
  walks through  a random world"  as she headlines one of her blogs, may not be so random, but I need to remember to try to stay
  centered within myself when I read her, and know that I need to examine and answer to myself at the end of the day, and see if I
  have any true culpability in that which I am accusing myself of.

     I do not have the history on the board that many of you do.  I am most definitely not defending Stormchild or anyone else.  For
   sure, it is my opinion Stormchild can defend herself if she feels the need.

     In closing, I would like to say I am open to the "gentle nudges" or opinions any would like to offer about what I have written
   about myself, or about cognitive distortions, etc.  I do not want to offend, and I hope I am not making Stormchild an "object of
   exemplification" as was mentioned.  If so, Stormchild, please let me know.

     Thanks for letting me share my observation.

cats paw     
   

[sally]

Dear Cat Paw,

I read your post and I'm not sure what you're saying.  Could you be a little clearer?

I must say that it would make me feel uncomfortable if someone started a post about me.  It would make me feel like I'm under the microscope.  I do feel like you've opened a discussion on a member here and are saying "Let's discuss this person's strengths & weaknesses" as if that person wasn't in the room.

Those are my feelings.  I'm just not sure what your intention or purpose is.

Sally

[cats paw]

Hello Sally,

  Part of what I'm doing is praising Stormchild. Part of what I am doing is taking a risk with Stormchild, and counting on her to respond or not to respond to what I have written.  I do think she will let me know how she feels about it, if that is her choice , and that is why I added what I did about "object of exemplification" as was mentioned in another post.

  I said she errs, and is human.  I would say that about anyone, because no one can escape the human condition. So I was speaking in general terms.  I was not referring to any specific errors.

  I also said "the tone I hear"  rather than making a pronouncement on the tone Stormchild might be trying to convey in anything she writes.

  I think I was also taking a risk with the whole board, and counting on them to know me well enough from what I've written so far that I'm not advocating discussing Stormchild.

  I was also sharing a self-observation, which would not have been as easily identified if not for this board, and for reading Stormchild's writing, both here and on her blogs. (Thanks to all of you who have encouraged me to stop worrying so much, BTW!)

  Thank you Sally, for asking those questions.  What I wrote is a departure from what I would ordinarily do with any other person, much less anyone on the board that I feared would be harmed by what I wrote and the way I wrote it.

  Stormchild may feel or think the same way you did, and I invited her to let me know.

  I usually try to be cautious about that concept of someone feeling placed under a microscope, but I'm going to risk just a bit with you now too, Sally.  I read your post earlier about the ways you wanted to be and to communicate, and I was thinking,- It seems to me she is well on her way to being the way she aspires to be- when I read your post. So I'm just putting it in here now- and being lazy by not going back and putting it in as a reply to what you wrote on your post.

  Thanks for your questions and input about what I have written.  Does that clear it up a bit?

cats paw

[Certain Hope]

  I am most definitely not defending Stormchild or anyone else.  For
   sure, it is my opinion Stormchild can defend herself if she feels the need.

     In closing, I would like to say I am open to the "gentle nudges" or opinions any would like to offer about what I have written
   about myself, or about cognitive distortions, etc.  I do not want to offend, and I hope I am not making Stormchild an "object of
   exemplification" as was mentioned.  If so, Stormchild, please let me know.

     Thanks for letting me share my observation.

cats paw     
   

Dear Cats Paw,

I don't know whether or not I'd call it a cognitive distortion, but I do have a concern.
I've no doubt that Stormchild can defend herself as she feels a need to... however...
there's something about the tone of what you've written here that registers with me in a painful sorta way...
as though a person who is intelligent and writes well would not feel as deeply about a post like this as someone less intelligent and literate.

I'm not suggesting that's what you're thinking here, kittyfoot... only telling you how I feel about that part.

Other than that, I agree with Sally that what you're presenting here is - to me - confusing; but that's just the way my mind works (or doesn't work).
When you say that you're making a self-observation, it's unclear to me just what that observation might be?
If you wrote this "about" me, for instance, I'd feel like I was in a fishbowl... much like I felt about Stormchild's post re: Sela on that other thread.

But that's just me.

I hope that made sense. And I'm open to nudging, as well... of the gentle variety.

Sincerely,
Carolyn

P.S. Please feel free to give me a shove if you don't like the kittyfoot part... it just slips out!

And another P.S. on edit... I guess if the title said - To ____ my thoughts about your recent posts - instead of being about the person herself... because this way it sounds to me like critiquing the person and not commenting on specific actions/behaviors/words...
and that is me and my getting tangled up in words, I know.... but they do mean alot... for good reason.

[cats paw]

Carolyn,

   I love the kittyfoot part!   I loved it the first time you used it.    I can see your point about the title of the post. 

   I am in awe of her intelligence and writing ability, and I'm not saying an intelligent person does not have feelings. Far from it. I do feel that now is where we're getting into discussing Stormy without her being here.  I guess the good part about it is she will know that people care about her and her feelings, and I am one of them, more than probably she even knows.

   So if I have erred, I will gladly admit that.  Just rest assured I would not choose to word a title the same way again, because it could be misconstrued.  Basically, it sounds like you saying there is an objection to my posting in the same manner that was found objectionable about the fishbowl effect? Not my intention, but I was aware the possiblity of it, and that is why I mentioned it when I wrote it.

   I guess I'm basically saying this was a liberty I would risk taking with Stormy, and no one else.  Not that I am saying anyone else is less competent or capable, mind you!!  It was a matter of style, and I truly think she will be able to hear what I was talking about - the "the tone I hear".  Perhaps I should have typed I in boldface?

   As I said, I do hope Stormchild herself will weigh in on this, but she is free not to.

   I hope I still have your trust to deal with you, and others,  in the way you would like to be dealt with.  All my talk of fear of offending was not for sport.  I do, very much, want to deal with people in the manner of their own choosing.

   As far as the fishbowl effect, I do understand that- even a positive fishbowl, because when I was first on the board and Gaining Strength singled me out with my name and a positive in a thread title, I had to fight a knee-jerk shame from FOO garbage.

   I thought I was clear about saying "my thoughts" but I was not as tentative as usual.  Did I just make more of a mess?

cats paw

   
edit in- perhaps I should have titled it- my thoughts about my own reactions when I read Stormchild's blogs and/or posts ?  Ah well, perhaps better late than never?

[Certain Hope]

Ahh... no mess with me, dear Kittyfoot... and I didn't intend to imply that you'd done anything wrong!
Just commenting. I think.

I only meant to respond to what I thought (guessed) was your request for feedback re: any cognitive distortions...

and since feedback is my specialty... well... I took it from there 

One thing is for sure, I never imagined that you bore any ill intent... I am just slow in my understanding.

Except for this... I used to feel "in awe" of some folks.
Thinking back on it, I realize how much good sense there is in one of Teartracks' sayings:
When we put anyone onto a pedestal, then we're responsible for keeping them there. (my paraphrase)

Of course, I know you're not pedestalizing anyone here... I am just rambling.

And with that... I think that I shall think no more today 


With love,
Carolyn

[lighter]

Well, Catspaw, lol.....

you get points for bravery.... curiosity..... wanting to engage the board in friendly discussion..... trying to help other see differences in communication style and how that might affect board dynamics and......

I'm thinking about taking those boots back till it passes; )

Heh..... you know I'm just kidding. 

I love that you're feeling more confident and I'm glad you're asking questions and trying to learn and grow here.  Very big for you, considering you were reduced to lurking for a while bc of fear of breaking rules.

 

[Stormchild]

Hi Cat's Paw

Hey, nobody here has ever started a shout out thread for me before. Thanks I think - it all depends on what's being shouted, I guess.

But I'm taking it as a compliment, and as evidence that somebody cares. Not offended in the least!

By the way, the reason people 'spot it' is because I have 'got it'. The stuff I post about is things that all abuse survivors are vulnerable to, and I am writing about it from the viewpoint of someone with the same disease. Triangulation, ricochets, Karpman rescues, drama addiction? I've lived through all of that, and done my unfair share. Therefore I can write with authority and not as the scribes...

So I blog as a kind of candle lit against the darkness... my darkness. As a prayer. Please, God, let me hold on to understanding, that I may not go back to these behaviors, or to people who use them against me, unthinkingly. Let me leave these places and people and not return, but don't let me forget, lest I find myself there again unknowingly. Let me understand, let me understand, let me understand, make me wise; give me compassion but even more, give me wisdom, because without wisdom, my compassion will become enabling, and I will be back again in the place from which I have only just escaped. And let me leave a trail, a road through the fens, some path that others may use, crooked and crazy though it may be, to find their way to safety as I find mine, by Your grace. Because almost any suffering can be endured if one can find a way to give it meaning.

And if the tone of my posts is distant, well, that's because I've never been safe here... as anyone who has been on the board in the last 24 hours can pretty plainly see. I'd have to be insane to be affectively any more open here than I am. Coocoo. Nutso bananas.

Now... if you've kindly started this thread to try and keep people - individually or in aggregate - from hating me here, thank you, bless you, but you're wasting your time. People don't hate or not hate other people because they understand them, they hate or don't hate because they want to. Or don't. It's the overall wanting to hate, or wanting not to hate, that can be affected by better understanding.

I've got that disease too, so I know.

Thanks, cats paw.

[Bella_French]

This is an odd thread, but I'm just going with it.

Those are interesting thoughts about `hate' Stormchild; I'm sure there is a lot of wisdom there, but I don't quite relate to my own hatred that way. I tend to only `hate' when I have been grossly and cruelly violated, or when a loved one has been. Its not really a psychological `want'. But I'll think on that.

I guess I know what you mean though. I have been `hated' in the symbolic sense, which is terribly frustrating and objectifying. For example, traveling in Asia, there were times when I couldn't get through the utter hatred directed at me for being a free western woman, `not in her place'.

Is that kind of hatred..the symbolic kind...what you're talking about here?

[Stormchild]

Yes, Bella, I think so.

The kind of hate you are describing is 'hating back'.

But what of the cruelty that starts that? Where does that come from?

What did those little black kids who had to be escorted to elementary school by National Guardsmen ~40 years ago yesterday ever do to the white grownups who lined the streets and jeered at them?

That kind of hate - what those white adults felt - is a drug, it's an addiction, people enjoy the rush. That's the thing I view as being 'wanted' psychologically. The rush, the feeling of power, the feeling of superiority. 'Put my enemy under my feet'... that stuff.

In the abstract, Bella, don't you hate injustice? Don't you hate the people who fed cats to pit bulls? God... I do. Unashamed, I will admit it. Doesn't matter that they weren't my cats, the poor furry innocents.

Anyway... I view Cats Paw [sorry about the third person, Cats Paw] as a peacemaker, in the best possible sense of the word, and don't want her hurt in the attempt.

[Bella_French]

Those are such interesting thoughts; thanks for elaborating for me Stormchild. I admit, I am not much of  `abstract hater'. It feels so toxic in my body when i experience it, and i can't really hold onto it mentally either. Theres just so much grey, even when injustice is involved. Maybe I don't care enough about world events and other people's affairs, I don't know. I just know that hate feels so bad, that even when I personally hate someone, it is often replaced quickly with contempt and then disregard. Thanks for getting me thinking about this. I expect I'm a bit out of touch with this toxic feeling, and you make some good points.

In the racism example you gave it totally makes sense that a crowd reaction like that could stir up adrenaline and become like an addiction and therefore a `want' (could you call that a `psychological need' even?). Is that what racism is about?  Its a very interesting thought. Thanks for putting the seed in my head.

X Bella

[isittoolate]

My thoughts?

I love Stormy!
Don't anyome EVER do this to me!
Izzy

[lighter]

Love the thread.

I do hate universally..... many things, (bigots, people who hurt children and the helpless.... etc) and it has been like a drug but, alas, I am the fuzzy wuzzy bear and lack the ability to multi task well so.... I sort'a stick with what's in front of me at the time.

My children..... nurture..... healing those I can touch and save the hate for when proper indignation is called for.

I don't hate anyone specifically.... though it's been an effort, IR,L at times.

Nice thread catspaw...... I like your voice: )

[Bella_French]

LOL, Lighter that made giggle;  I can relate to the effort of hate multi-tasking. I'd implode if I tried to actively hate everyone who deserves it , lol.

I hate one person at the moment. Past bf's and N's Pfft! I just can't hold onto the hate, because I was the dummy who chose to be with them.

The person I hate right now is my neighbor, who started slaughtering the baby birds I tamed last year in the forest. He even had the stupidity to tell me, and then gave me a dumb cerebral excuse, based on ignorance. When I explained the facts to him, he just got angry and said he was going to continue to kill them anyway! My theory is he is jealous of the joy I experience loving these birds, and hes a weirdo gay mysogynist. I think something about `nurturing' offends him.

When I first learned of what he'd done, and in the next two weeks when 2 more babies `disappeared',  the hatred I felt kept me awake for 3 nights. That was six moths ago now, and I still `theoretically hate' him, but the passion is gone. I am biding my time before super-soaking his roof with sugar solution, so he'll get an ant infestation. And then I'm going to call the council and complain. I was thinking of running an ad in the local newspaper too, advertising his chickens for free.

Ah, Hate. I don't know what to make of it, but its something fierce, isn't it?

[lighter]

Ummmmm, Bella.

Sugar soaking AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE HOUSE>>>>WINDOWS AND DOORS>>>> better than sugar soaking roof, IMO.

Purchasing box of roaches and letting loose in basement..... got that idea from my sister who also left a bunch of mice go free, complete with a bag of food left open, at release site

She highjacked a friend into service during this deed,

who kept saying..."why are we doing this to these nice people?"

I'm sorry..... I'm laughing here..... not sure why but.....

HE SHOULDN'T BE SLAUGHTERING YOUR BABY BIRD FRIENDS!

What in the heck is he doing to them?

At first I thought he was a hunter.... then you threw in the gay mysogynist thing so.....

really really disturbing though. 

((Bella)) Sorry this is happening to you