Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Emasculating insecure Dads
Tokyojim:
That "macho" thing can be difficult. People want to simply be respected, and men can feel pressure to "be a man!" They can say that it does not matter, but I think that they all feel the pressure, challenge to some degree. It does not mean one should conform, but one has to make a decision about whether it is worth it to make a stand, ignore it, fake it, etc.
It may be difficult for the ladies to understand this and see where it is coming from. What I find interesting is that it rarely comes from the ladies; it usually comes from other men!
I can remember having my masculinity being challenged because I said that I did not like to hunt and felt sorry for the animals. On another occasion, it was because I did not know much about football. Maybe that is one thing that is relaxing about the ladies: that nonsense really stops and the emotional side is more accepted. In many ways, I am envious of the ladies for having this.
But, with your father, remember that it is simply a tactic for control or power or a way to put you down. I have found that the ones who make the biggest issue about being "masculine" usually have the opposite feelings themselves.
Spirit:
--- Quote ---
If you are male then you have a right to "feel" whatever it is your feeling whether it's labeled "weak" or "soft" or whatever. Who really cares what some other's guy's or gal's opinion is of it. Does it change how you "feel"? "Does it literally make you a female cause you feel this way? Heck no! Some people and their opinions! :roll:
Be yourself. If others have their opinions and they don't accept you as you are then it's their loss - not yours. You really don't need their toxicity anyway.
--- End quote ---
Hi Mrt,
Thanks a lot for your reply.
That really makes sense doesn't it. It is such a shame that some people ( like my dad ) cannot come to terms with it and has to use me and impose his opinions to 'validate' his mask ! This along with my moms reaffirmations if his stance ( for purely selfish reasons.. ie. not to get herself into trouble ) She even was willing to neglect her own child ( that too the only child ) for her own selfish sake.. what kind of a person is she ?
Unfortunately though I must admit at this point though that I too have carried on toxicating myself in certain ways.. carrying on from where they left and have questioned even basic things about myself like sexuality, gender etc :cry: It is like a battle for me. Battle between that toxic self and my true self..long way to go for me. Its like a Jekyl and Hyde for me.. I the true self need to win
I wish I draw strnght by talking to like minded people !! and am so glad that I found this MB
I will keep strong !
spirit
Spirit:
--- Quote ---That "macho" thing can be difficult. People want to simply be respected, and men can feel pressure to "be a man!" They can say that it does not matter, but I think that they all feel the pressure, challenge to some degree. It does not mean one should conform, but one has to make a decision about whether it is worth it to make a stand, ignore it, fake it, etc.
It may be difficult for the ladies to understand this and see where it is coming from. What I find interesting is that it rarely comes from the ladies; it usually comes from other men!
--- End quote ---
I very well understand the pressure Jim. It is such a stupid and unwanted thing for me caused my othyer men who are insecure about themselves I suppose. But I must add it not always come from men ..It comes from vile women who can't stand up for themselves ( like my mom )
Imagine such a vile woman who simply affrims and accepts the man who has power ? and neglects the other one ! Self serving woman who will let a man fight her battle ( even if that man is only a child ) for her own SELFISH motives . Women who think men have everything and should always be the provider and who can see themselves as only pitiable dependants !!! They need no pity they need to own responsibility. Imagine a mother who thinks the natural power hierachy in a house is Dad, then son then herself ??? Many such women can only see themselves as the object of desire !
Imagine a family where the object of desire the petted and pampered one is the mother ( cos she can only see herself as the vistim and pitiable ) and not the child !!! They make men question their masculinity ! They turn a man agains't another man ( child against father ) or father against child for their own SELFISH sake !
Imagine a boy growing up doing everything to get the attention of the mother, and she would rather not give it cos in her own mind she would get herself in trouble and there is no benefit cos the 'knight in shining armour' is not that child but the provider or her husband ?
--- Quote ---
I can remember having my masculinity being challenged because I said that I did not like to hunt and felt sorry for the animals. On another occasion, it was because I did not know much about football. Maybe that is one thing that is relaxing about the ladies: that nonsense really stops and the emotional side is more accepted. In many ways, I am envious of the ladies for having this.
But, with your father, remember that it is simply a tactic for control or power or a way to put you down. I have found that the ones who make the biggest issue about being "masculine" usually have the opposite feelings themselves.
--- End quote ---
My masculinity has been challenged when I was rediculed in front of girls my age by my dad plus similar such occasions where I couldnt win. But at this point I would also ask.. MOM WHERE WERE YOU ?
What did she do to reaffirm that I was a man ? Where was her role as a provider ? She dumped me for that guy in shining armour ! Personally in my family I think dad had to play that superhuman role becvause he didnt get any input from her.
I would put the blame on both !
About my dad I am sure he has questioned his masculinity aswell. Imagine living with a woman who is so selfish ? I am sure that my dad ( for all the vile things he has done to me ) deserved more than my mom. After I know the amount of 'affection' she poured on me :roll: He wouldnt have got much either
Tokyojim:
Of course, I cannot do a diagnosis over the email, but please look up the symptoms for "Dependent Personality Disorder." Your mother may fit. Plug that exact term into a search engine and look for the DSM-IV definition.
mrt:
Spirit,
I can understand your frustration with your parents. I haven't spoken to mine in over 2 years because I finally realized they weren't going to change and they weren't listening to me. I kept stating that I didn't want to be attacked and they never got it. I beat my head against a proverbial brick wall for decades before I finally got it. I had to cut them off. I'm still dealing with this but I'm learning about who I am and that I don't need their disapproval and I'm learning that I don't even need their approval to function.
It's okay to be angry at your mother. No judges here. She wasn't there for you and it sounds like she will never be. You didn't chose them as parents. But you can chose NOT to let them poison you. You can grow without them if necessary. They got you to this point. The rest is up to you.
Jim & Spirit,
If it makes you guys feel any better. I went to Texas stadium one time to pick up some office equipment with my boss who's nephew ran the place. I was afraid to admit it but I wasn't sure if it was a football or baseball stadium! :lol: I know nothing of football, baseball, or any kind of sport. I think it is the biggest waste of money to pay these people to play games.
I am not alone as my father, father-in-law, brother-in-law and lots of other guys I know feel the same way. As far as hunting. I went as a youngster with my dad trying to bond with him. I hated it. It was too cold, too boring. I killed a bird once and felt extreme guilt for killing an innocent animal. None of the guys that used to hunt have been in years. Why hunt when we have a three grocery stores a mile down the road?? I have a hunting gun somewhere, but I couldn't tell you where it is or who even has it. I know lots of guys that don't like to hunt either. The ones that do hunt are made fun of behind their backs, because they leave their wives and family and waste too much time and money on this pseudo-macho sport. I even know a women who gets the first deer kill almost every year. Go figure.
Don't even bring up fishing. I think that is boring too. I've tried it - but I wouldn't eat a fish that came from this area or most areas anyway. My brother ate one that came from this area once and went into anaphylatic(spelling ??) shock and blew up like a balloon. I thought he was going to burst.
I know a lot of women who are into sports bigger than a lot of guys I know. The are fanatics. It's kind of funny.
My father-in-law is a big masculine, burly guy who keeps his house, yard, vehicles, etc immaculant. He even painted his garage and the garage floor!, He cooks, likes to shop, etc and nobody questions his masculinity. It's about being yourself and not caring what others think. He doesn't try to be anything that he isn't.
Why bow to pressure from others? People will respect you if are not toxic and are a decent human being treating them the way you want to be treated. Thats what matters to others.
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