The thing that might divide us

[lighter]

It would be nice if your h could have contact with his family on a limited basis.

Unfortunately they aren't going to let him have any peace until he's back in the fold, to their satisfaction, so to speak.

I don't think he's going to be able to be involved with them and have any peace.

Interesting that he understands what they're doing.

He realizes they aren't asking for appropriate contact.

He understands that they put pressure on him to disrupt his marriage yet.....

he can't see that this is unacceptable, on every level, and deal with it.

He's a bit lost in hoping they'll change.... or that you'll be able to go back to being compliant and patient and letting things return to the way they were?

I'd have to really stick with those boundaries, if I was you.

I'd do it so I wasn't placing blame and giving ultimatums, for sure.

Has he thought about how he'd feel if he was the one in your shoes and the roles were reversed?

If so.... what did he say he thought he'd do and he'd want you to do?

I'd have him put himself in your shoes and ask him to think it through.

I, personally, think his family is giong to make him choose.

I don't think he's strong enough to defeat his dependance on them, but you've known that from the start.

I sure hope he continues to pleasantly surprise me and keep figuring stuff out..... choosing to make you and your children the priority.  He's been surprising me so far..... let's see what he does next.

How does he feel about divorce, anyway?

[Poppy Seed]

It would be nice if your h could have contact with his family on a limited basis.

Yes.  I have been trying to negotiate this with him and them for better half of this year.  A battle I have lost and lost badly.

Unfortunately they aren't going to let him have any peace until he's back in the fold, to their satisfaction, so to speak.


I think you are right.  I haven't wanted to believe this.  But this year has been so telling!  No negotiation is posible.  My H's older brother (millionaire and headstrong)  bucked the family system.  He was punished so badly.  He left at 17 and never came back.  He married.  His wife and weathy lifestyle disturbed the family.  They simply detached from everyone.  They come to what they want to but they don't share anything personal and they never let my mil babysit. The family punishes them.  But after 15 years, the family is finally letting up.  But it is 15 years of hits! Yuck!   I have watched them for years and begged my H to follow their example.  Now, he is coming to terms.  We will see where he lands.

I'd do it so I wasn't placing blame and giving ultimatums, for sure.

I try not to....but I am sure I do at times.  He expressed last night his need to search his feelings with me but that he must have a safe environment to do so. 


I don't think he's strong enough to defeat his dependance on them, but you've known that from the start.

This is my fear.  It makes me want divorce.  Because I know that unless it changes, I will be the sacrificial lamb.  And frankly, that wasn't what I signed up for.

How does he feel about divorce, anyway

Well, he absolutely does not want to divorce.  He understands why I feel that it may be my only  safe option.  He understands, at least in part, the postition his actions have put me in.  But, awakening and detaching from the enmeshment is hard enough.  I know I am not strong enough to go against these people.  They have turned my old friends against me.  They are GOOOD at this game.  But, I will have to wait for him to come to his own realizations and this morning he asked me to be more patient so he can come to them on his own.  Basically,  He is holding onto me for dear life.  Breaking from his fam and losing me would be devistating for him.  In the past it has made me a little crazy because I feel like if he doesn't like how I think, or feel, or behave, or look....then why would he say he loves me?  But the more truth he sees, the more he loves me and my ways. So, we both are committed to seeing truth!   I think that his subconscious knows that I am exactly what he needs.  And I think that if he loses me, then he loses everything because he knows somewhere in his heart that he is a "source" for his family.

[lighter]

I feel really really sorry for your H, however......

that doesn't mean he can sacrafice his family (you guys) and his marriage bc his FOO causes so much discomfort for him.

Seems obviouse who should go, IMO.

But there again..... he's dependant on them.

Thanks for sharing about his 'strong' brother who walked away and wouldn't be bullied or manipulated.

What does your H say about all that and what was his part in it?

Did he punish him too?

Does he admire or resent that brother and his stance/actions?

Is he intimidated by the strength and wealth too?

[Poppy Seed]

My H spent a lot of years participating and agreeing with the punishing.  He thought his brother was selfish and ...... well, unrighteous.  And so did the rest of the family.  Following the fam religion is big....only it needs to be followed with their narrow interpretations.  His brother was a rebel.  Having money is the "root of all evil".  I disagreed and have defended them time and time again.  It was usually a one-sided conversation.

When we split up and his addiction was made public and his family crashed into us with all their controlling,  my H finally saw the FOO problem.  He went to his older brother for support.  Sadly, his brother has taken no interest  and has chosen not to provide any support.  He did answer questions and we discovered that his issues with the fam are very similar to ours.  But his detachment, I am afraid was permanent.  And we also suspect that he believes the FOO view on our behavior.  My H is grieving terribly over this one.  He does really admires his brother and sees that his gift for making money is really an expression of talent...not greed.  But, his brother isn't very loving and that hurts.  It is sad.  I am his only ally.

[lighter]

His brother has been punished by the family, including your h, for years.

I can't blame him for feeling a bit detached toward alllll of them, including your h.

If you've been in touch, and remain in touch.... maybe he'll soften?

Maybe he won't?

It would be a very warm comfort to your h, imy, if he had his brother there to embrace and sort'a replace what he's losing, if he decides to withdraw with love from his FOO.

I don't understand the brother believing the FOO's version of you and your husband though, quite frankly.

He's been in touch with you all these years.

Knows what the FOO does, eats it's own if challenged..... what does he believe?

And.... when your h finally went to the brother for connection.... how did he do that and what did he say?

Did he apologize for punishing him for all those years too?

For excluding and injuring bc it was what he had to do to stay in the fold?

Did he ask for a hand and support in his effort to see how enmeshed he's been and try to establish a close relationship with brother?

I'm not clear on all that and it makes me sad that the brother would be detached permanently.

I can't blame him for being hurt and maybe need a little wooing, kwim?

[Poppy Seed]

Well, thinking that perhaps my H would bond with his brother is a beautiful idea -- one I have encouraged and hoped for over the years.  It is hard to describe the  surfacy nature of family relations.  They cling to it.  Any invitation for something deeper is met with resistance.  I think my H's addiction is an embarrassment.  I think that distance themselves from anything that could tarnish image.  They don't stop to ask questions or discover truth.  They mind read and think they know best.  Even this brother.  He is very talented but self absorbed.  Very into his lifestyle and may have kept distance had family probs not been there.  We have only had two conversations with them in the past year.  Their disapproval (based upon mil's tellings)  is clear ......and confusing.  We don't know what was said but we know 4 months went by before this brother would answer our calls.   All the rest are unanswered questions and disappointments.  His attempts at closeness have not been returned.  So, I think we know it is a dead end.  We still call on B-days and try to express interest in their fam events.  They could care less about ours.  We live about 15 miles from them and they have never come to or called the house.

Oh well, Lighter.  I am just coming to the conclusion that all these relationships won't be what I had hoped.  I have mourned long.  But now I am just moving on and doing the best I can.  I am doing well.  I need to rebuild a life where this family ( who has been to integrated into our weekly activities) is the main focus.  That is taking time.  But, if you build it, they will come!  Right???  New life....new friends....new marriage (w/H, of course)!!  My three-fold mission!

Much Love.  Thanks for your interest.  How are you anyway?  How are your babies?  How are your stressors?  Is everything going well with you?  You sound so strong and so put together!!!  What is your status???

Pops

[Bella_French]

Dear Poppyseed,

Is there any possibility of your family relocating (far) away from your H's parents? Could that work with your future plans?

X bella

[Poppy Seed]

Bella,

We think about this all the time.

Poppy