Don't think I handled that too well . . .

[Ami]

I just wanted to ask a question that relates to Tayana's topic.
  I was always put in my room and just left there when I was sick.I would have done anything for comfort and "babying". Now,I am seeing a different side of it.Maybe babying isn't so great?
  It just struck me as "How could babying be bad?".I guess that I got one opposite and there is another opposite.
  I always nurtured my sons when they were sick.I was comforting and nurturing with them and they don't have issues with sickness as I do.
  If I had one wish it was ( and still is) to be comforted when I am sick. I never had it.If I got a drop of care,it was like a mountain moved. My M would usually be angry .
  Just wanted to say that it surprised me that s/one could get too much babying. I guess it sounds silly to say that,but that is what I thought(think?)                     Love    Ami

[tayana]

Pops, that learned helplessness is so awful.  My mom tried to instill that in me for so long.  "You'd never be able to make in on your own on your salary."  So I always felt like I needed a better job, even though I liked the job I had.  I finally had to quit that one because I couldn't stand my new boss.  "You have no idea what it takes to run a household."  Actually, I did have a pretty good idea.  I had been on my own in college.  I made sure to go to school away from home, so I did have an idea what kind of bills they were, and I could sort of budget based on that.  However, anytime I thought of having my own place, she would start in with all of that, and finally I just stopped talking.

My experience, at least with M, is that he does best when things are presented in a very positive manner.  I did my best to tell him all of the positive things about moving, and my mom told him all the negative things, even to the point of saying I'd go off and leave him alone while I went to the grocery.  So he was hearing mixed messages.  It's not so much that he's incapable, only that he thinks differently and so sometimes things have to be presented or handled a little differently.  Like camp, he was afraid to go to camp as long as he thought he had to spend the night.  He was afraid to stay away from home, but once it was presented differently, then he wanted to go.  And he was afraid to do some of the activities, but I talked to him and to the teachers, and he actually did all of the activities.  He didn't sit out a single one, and he'd been afraid of doing a couple of them.  It's all about attitude, and if I can be positive, then he's generally positive.  I think that's the key.  The only problem is that I have a hard time being positive about everything.

[tayana]

Ami, my mom didn't baby me much when I was sick.  In fact, in the last ten years she's been pretty angry when I"ve called in for the flu or something like that.  I don't really remember how she was when I was younger.  I think when I was a teen, she just left me home and went off to work.

I think there's a fine line between too much comfort and not enough.  I think that when a child gets to do things he would never get to do otherwise, that it crosses the line.  My mom never allowed M to have toys in the living room, unless he was sick, then she would let him.  She wouldn't let him eat or drink in the living room, unless he was sick.  Even if he felt good enough to go get a snack, she would rush to get it for him, serve him and treat him like a little princeling.  I think that's too much babying. 

To get a drink if M asks, or a snack if he asks in a respectful way is one thing, but when he says, "I need some water here," and waits for me to get it, while I have fifteen balls in the air, that's too much, at least for me.  I know where you're coming from.  And I've been really sick and wished my mom would comfort me a little, but I think the comforting went way to far with M.

[tayana]

GS, thanks!  I really appreciate that vote of confidence.

[Poppy Seed]

I think there is a big difference between caring too much and not caring enough.  I also think there is a big difference between truly caring for the sake of someone else and caretaking for the sake of self or in the N's case to maintain the smoke and mirrors of the illusion.  The Truman Show is the perfect example.....at least in my case.  I don't think that illustration applies to everyone.  But, I know when someone cares about me....even imperfectly and when someone's caring isn't about me at all.

I also think that doing for someone, even a child, what he or she can do for themselves is a disservice.  It weakens them.  It is the whole problem with many welfare systems.  Not inspiring self sufficiency. 

Ami, I think the way you loved your boys when they were sick sounds fine to me.  My parents left me alone.  Sometimes when I am sick now, I really just want to be alone.  Loving someone  and serving someone according to needs and wants. And having the ability to discern or listen to what those are --  That is the key.

[lighter]

Oh Lord, Poppy ::sigh::

Now I guess I have to put the kids into the car (naked) in the mornings if they don't perk up and get dressed on time, lol?

I usually end up doing it all for them bc they're so darned slow.... and I always loved doing for them when they were babies... I admit it.


I know I have to draw the line and begin letting them do what they can for themsleves, it's just as you say....... intellectually I know that.

This is a timely thread: / 

Any more ideas on getting children to do more for themselves.... chores etc?

[Poppy Seed]

God doesn't care take us.  Can you imagine God being 'nice"?  God handles the things we can't do for ourselves....like see past present and future and having all the power in the universe.  It is why we pray.  And, if your a Christian, it is why their was a Savior provided....to conquer the stuff we couldn't on our own -- death and sin.   But He put us down here to learn!  To have the experience away from Him.  To learn to choose and hopefully to choose well and to learn to be righteous in independent ways.  He doesn't take away our consequences and pain but he teaches and teaches and teaches.  He comforts and guides and heals.

I think it is the same for our kids.  We love the guts out of them and take care of all the stuff they can't do all the while teaching them until they can.   We repeat ourselves a lot.  Sometimes we do it for them -- many times.  Just to get through the day or to be somewhere on time.  I don't think that instills helplessness. It is modeling.  I think it shows them HOW to pick up the pace and get to the church on time.  But we don't do their homework for them.  We don't  or can't save them from pain. We shouldn't protect them from needed consequences. If they cheat at school, we walk them to the principles office.  And we are there waiting when they get out with comforts and sometimes tough love.  Sometimes we let them pick themselves up when they fall.  Have you ever seen your kid get hurt and only start crying when you show the "concerned face"?  It is why mom wasn't always allowed to accompany the child in the dentist chair.  The kid behaves better when mom doesn't hover. I think it important to have high expectations.  I think children will only ascend as high as we point.

Two examples: 1) My sil's boys came to visit.  They said " I want a drink".  I pointed them to the child cups next to fridge.  They were upset that I wasn't doing it for them.  I pointed them to the cups.  You know, they never went to get a drink.  They just sat on the floor in front of the TV and pouted. ::shaking head::  My sil would have said, " oh no, don't get up sweetie, I will get it for you."

2) I dated a guy in college who, during his senior year in high school, jumped into a child's ball pit and broke his neck.  He was told he would never walk again.  When I met him, he WAS walking with two canes and by the time we graduated he was down to one.  He took me to his physical therapist who was a total bad***.  He was big and buff and hard.  He scared me to death. When my friend would fall, he wouldn't help in any way. Not a word of sympathy or encouragement.  He might even call out his weakness or walked away.  My friend had to pick himself up over and over.  That is how he got strong. His body got strong and his mind got strong too. That is how he learned to walk again.  It was the NOT helping that built the skills.  He was there with love and encouragement but only after the goal was met.  He gave my friend what he couldn't do.....but wouldn't touch what he had to do himself.

I am not saying we all become drill sargaent parents.  I just think that truly understanding the vision of proper balance can really benefit our kids.

PS.  Lighter, why not put the kids in the car naked?  Bet they'd be ready the next day.  It is Love and Logic, baby!!

[Poppy Seed]

sorry....stepping off the soapbox......

[lighter]

Ya know.... Poppy.

The girls kick it into gear when I say I'm going to put them in the car naked. 

They beleive me and I have an unbreakable rule that I'll do what I say, if I threaten it, lol. 

I would if I had to and maybe tomorrow I give fewer warnings before the naked in the car threat comes out of the toolbox.

It's the little one I have more trouble with and she'd have an hour, in the back of the car.... to remedy her problem; )

[Poppy Seed]

You are a good mom, lighter!  Your babies are lucky!