Author Topic: Non-N parents and choices  (Read 1413 times)

sunblue

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Non-N parents and choices
« on: October 27, 2007, 08:09:22 PM »
In reading some of the posts, there is a strong and probably accurate consensus that Ns are really small children in adult's clothing and haven't formed the kind of mature behavior processes that healthy adults have.  instead, they are extremely self-centered, selfish, manipulative and controlling---just like a 6 year old would be.  They can't process right and wrong, good and bad.  They want what they want and that's all that ever matters.

But my question relates to the non-N partner, the non-N parent or other related enabler.  In the case of the non-N parent, who is often extremely co-dependent, they do know the difference between right and wrong, fair and not fiar, good and bad.  Yet, they betray and hurt their chiildren in their way just as much as the Nparent does.  They sacrifice relationships with their children and anyone else that questions the behavior of the N. 

In these situations, do they regret their choices?  Do they miss not having a real relationship with their children because they feel it necessary to support the N at all costs?  Do they recognize that the Nparent (their spouse) is unhealthy or at the very least "wrong".  Do they even love their children?

In my family, my dad is extremely co-dependent.  He sacrificed two of this three children (the third is also N and the "chosen child") and his only grandchild just so he could support my Nmom in her sick behavior.  He will go to really ridiculous lengths to support my Nmom and Nsister is whatever they say and do and want, no matter what that is.  He will never stand up for me or my brother, yet deep down I can't help but feel that he knows my Nmom is wrong in her behavior towards us.  He never talks with or sees my brother and his family unless my bro initiates it.  The same could be said for me in a way (although I currently live with them due to financial reasons).  But still, he takes no interest in me or my brother.  He waits by the door (literally) for my mom returns from errands.  He never has a differing opinion from hers and jumps (literally) every time she moves asking if she needs or wants anything.  It is often sad, painful and humiliating to watch.

So what of these non-N parents or N individuals?  Are they aware they are wrong?  Do they regret their behavior or choices?  Do they mourn the losses they incur as a result of their choice to support the N at all costs?

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's stories or thoughts about this.  It is so sad and hurtful to realize that not one, but both parents betrayed you.

Thanks.

finding peace

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 10:16:39 PM »
Hi Sun,

Quote
So what of these non-N parents or N individuals?  Are they aware they are wrong?  Do they regret their behavior or choices?  Do they mourn the losses they incur as a result of their choice to support the N at all costs?
Quote

Before my father died (he was a text book N and had P tendencies), my mother was extremely co-d.  In order to live with him, I believe that she totally subjugated her own personality to his (if she had a personality to begin with – which I question).  She had no identity except for what he allowed.  EEeewww.

She was quite cruel to me when I was young – mostly covertly (she didn’t protect me at all) but could be quite overtly cruel as well.  I didn’t realize how cruel until after my father died – her cruelty was more mental torture rather than the physical torture. 

In any case, after my father died, I could not believe it – she turned into him.   She literally became his mini-me.  I’ve often wondered if this happened because she no longer had him to dictate her personality – so she became him, or if she was like this all along underneath, and once he died she could allow it out. 

I don’t believe she was aware she was wrong in the way she treated me when I was a child.  But, that does not excuse her behavior IMO. 

I do think she may feel regret now that I am NC – but it has become quite clear that it is not a regret for the loss of our relationship, or a regret over the way she has acted.  It is a regret that I am no longer around to be used as needed, to hold her up emotionally, to take care of her, to be her whipping post when she is in a bad mood, etc.  Does she mourn losing me?  Only to the extent that her life has been made more difficult – she could not care less about how badly I have been hurt as a result of her actions.  She will never aknowledge that she has acted horrendously towards me - without that acknowledgement I don't think there can be true regret.

Yes - it was extremely, extremely painful for me to realize I was nothing to my parents.  It was also, ultimately, freeing - once I was able to really understand this, I was able to walk away. 

I am sorry you have parents like this Sun.

Peace
- Life is a journey not a destination

tayana

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 11:37:46 PM »
Sun,

I talked about my dad in one of the other threads.  I think he knows my mom is wrong in many ways.  He will talk about her and complain about the ways she acts and the things she says.  He will do nothing to change things.  Here's an example.

About three or four years ago, my father was drinking a lot.  My mother abhors alcohol, and she bitches about it if anyone takes a drink in her presence.  My parents used to fight a lot, so much that when my son was a baby, I had a bag packed because I was afraid the situation was going to get violent.  At that time, I really felt sorry for my mother, even though she'd hurt me.  My father was angry a lot, and when he got upset, he scared me.  I was actually afraid he'd get drunk and kill my mother.  This situation all came to a head when he went hunting, got drunk, and my mother ended up getting locked out of the house.  He was down in the woods with my brother when my mom called him to come unlock the door.  They had a huge fight over it.  But the whole thing started over being locked out.

I'm assuming she called my father and raged at him in front of my son, but I don't know that for sure.  She waited until I got home from work, before the two of them went outside to scream at each other some more.  She ended up getting a gun and threatening suicide.  Well, my father came inside and got me and told me to go outside and get the gun away from her.  I wasn't comfortable with this.  My mother has never been what I would consider emotionally stable.  So I went out to talk to her, and she wouldn't give up the gun.  I told her if she didn't give me the gun I was going to call 911.  I did.

My father was pissed because the cops descended on the house, and my mother was taken to the hospital. My father refused to go to the hospital.  I had to go.  I had to talk to the psychologist, with my mother (whom I was terrified of) in the room with me, and I didn't have the guts to commit her.  She talked her way out of the situation.  She never did go see a psychiatrist like she was supposed to. 

Anyway, my father was angry with me because I had called the cops.  My mother didn't speak to him for about three weeks.  It was a very uncomfortable situation, and I was stuck in the middle of it.   

He's expressed a lot of anger over my mother's irresponsibility with money, her rages, her instability, but he will never, ever do anything about it.  He won't stand up to her.  He just takes her abuse and does what she wants, then complains because nothing he does satisfies her.  Although he's never been overtly cruel to me, he has always been very distant and unaffectionate.  And since I've moved, he just sides with my mother on everything.  My brother has even been shocked over how little support I get from him.
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Hopalong

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2007, 07:30:28 PM »
I hope you'll get Michael away from these people
as soon as you can, Tay...

he deserves a life without those kinds of scars,
and you deserve a new life for healing them.

hugs
Hops
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Ami

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 09:20:33 PM »
Dear Tayana,
    Having come out of denial myself,I can see that people ,virtually,"don't see" what they don't want to see. Denial lets all sorts of"craziness" go by them and they block it out. They can block it out with an addiction,often.
    My F was always "reading" as a way to escape.
  The point is that a person does not face' what they don't want to.They,virtually don't "see" it. It is horrible to see it happening         Love   Ami


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Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
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Bella_French

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 06:28:55 AM »
Dear Sunblue,

My family is similar to your own, in that my father is almost completely controlled by my N- mother (although they have spent a lot of time separated and divorced during their marriage). His co-abuse throughout my childhood and adulthood has ranged from emotional neglect, expressing joint favoritism for certain children, `turning a blind eye' to blatant physical and emotional abuse of his daughters, as well as `changing our history' to protect our mother's lies. He is also her messenger and puts pressure on his children when they do not fullfill our mother's agendas. I call him a `co-abuser' because my mother's agenda's are his agendas, by virtue of the level of control she wields over him.

I don't really know what `perfect fathering' feels like, or if it even exists, but I know that he tried his best. I probably should be angry, but I guess I'm just grateful for the fact that he's there, and that he has not yet passed away. He has also done a lot of nice things for me over the years, such as raising me in good health, in nice places, and driving me places when I needed to travel. Also, he is my step father and he has treated me like his own daughter from the start. He never raises his voice and he is extremely supportive of me. I also like the way he doesn't criticize me, and he has a very positive and upbeat attitude.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think I can really express, with a blanket statement, whether my father loves me or not. I think some of his behavior is deeply loving, and some of it is not because of the relationship he's in. Ami put it very well, i think;  his denial (or maybe its just lack of knowledge?)  prevents him from acknowledging the truth and he is oblivious to his less-than-perfect parenting behavior. I do love him SO much. I really wish he would have had a better life with a  different woman, and that his first wife had not have died so suddenly. But then I wouldn't have known him, so I have no complaints about how things turned out.

I am grateful now for the moments we have; in a few years when he is gone, there will be none at all.

X bella


« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 05:43:53 PM by Bella_French »

gratitude28

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Re: Non-N parents and choices
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 07:24:10 AM »
Hi SUn,
Having just seen my parents, I looked for some of these answers, and saw some ways that the problems are dealt with and brought about. When my mother does something rotten, she seems to be affectionate towards my dad. My dad's family was very messed up. I don't think he ever had affection from anyone. He believes their marriage is strong - they have been together for over 40 years. She seems to know when to be extra nice so that he does not feel as angry towards her.
Still, I have to say, my dad is able to put his foot down in most situations with her, I have said before here, I think this is the reason I ended up with a nice man and not as low as I might have been if she were able to completely tear me down. He believes I am a good person and a great mother, and she has been unable to destroy that. The reason they came here was for my dad to watch my son play football. She tried to convince him to leave before the game! He told her no way - she backed off. There are lines he won't let her cross and for that I am very lucky. He doesn't hear the little things she does... I wish he would. She knows how to be sneaky. So even if he guesses... how do you confront someone with what you suspect? I don't know. I am still processing everything and trying to figure it all out (as if you could!!). I am also lucky in that my dad makes an effort to hang behind a bit and say goodbye after her or have a few seconds with just me and the kids. I need to think about things more and see if I can decipher some more tricks - but I can assure you, it is a full system of checks and balances.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams