Author Topic: Acceptance Again  (Read 2721 times)

steve

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Acceptance Again
« on: November 06, 2007, 07:33:33 PM »
Hello all:

I want to take a stab at this again. Voicing myself on here seems to help. So here it goes.

I will make this as general as possible so transplant your "ghosts" wherever you see fit.

Here I sit today, finally coming out of my nightmare. I have vented for the last time and am ready to move on. What have I done?

I have forsaken my "ghost", namely my "relationship" with my father. I am not saying that I will no longer have a relationship with him, but instead, I will not let that old "relationship" have me (own me, possess me). But how do I reach this point?

Lets start at the beginning. As a young child I took this relationship to be true, absolute, very important. I had to, it is called survival.

But eventually you begin to realize that something is not right. You question yourself and ask what is wrong? You conclude that either there is something wrong with you or there is something wrong with your father. Feeling inferior, you conclude, there is something wrong with me. Now starts low self esteem, no confidence, self doubt, ... You all know the tributaries all to well.

It may take some time but eventually you come to realize that wait, there is not something wrong with me but there is something wrong with him. So all of a sudden you lay the blame on him and then for a while feel some relief until the old spooks come back to haunt you and out goes your self esteem, your confidence, your courage, .... And for the life of you, you can not figure out why and now either you are really "defective" or something else is going on. Why have I slipped back in to the hole when I know it is not me? This is illogical and depression sets in. Enjoy the ride, now it is all dark, grey is all you see, negative is your only perspective, it is all over.

What else could it be? I have tried everything. I blamed myself and that didn't work. I blamed him and that didn't work. So what else could there be.

So I thought some more and said to myself, let me look at this entity I call my father. He has a body, a mind, and he experiences emotions. At this level, I have come to realize that the emotions he feels and the thoughts he has are defective. He is not illogical, but he is emotionally challenged which affects his thinking. So, he is basically what he is. It is really all he can be. He can be no different. He has a handicap, as do we all, and he does not know how to get out of it. So what does that make him? It makes him weak, but he will survive nonetheless. I can not help his condition and I can not control his emotions. He will find a way to manage, just as we all do. But his way is very limiting and that is just the world he live in. That is life.

So, do I judge his body: no. Do I judge his emotions: no, there is nothing to judge, he just got dealt a bad hand. Do I judge his mind: no, because he is enslaved to his emotions and his defects. Do I judge his courage: no, because he only has just as much courage as he can possibly have. OK, so I am kinda stuck here. Or so it seems.

I have been looking in the wrong places for my answers. Always looking outside me to get the solution. Not anymore, for outside me is just that, outside me. I need to look in. Look at myself and say, look, stop letting this "relationship" own you. Tear it down, use your courage. That is all it takes. Be courageous and realize that the "relationship" is just an idea, it is a creation of mine. I leave it up and standing strong because I do not have the courage to tear it down. Or do I?

Tearing it down and courage all of a sudden appear very simple. This "relationship" lives entirely independent of me. It is a part of me, but i own it. It only means whatever I want it to mean and only does so when it has value for me.

So, it is time to make the nightmare in to the real. I have to take the courage to say that I and I alone determine my life and I will not let myself be enslaved by a fantasy, a ghost, a spook, no, I am stronger than that. I can take him for what he is and can be a compassionate individual, which is something I am. But I can also give no weight, no value, no significance, no POWER, to the relationship over me, the entire me. So what is this relationship that I am crushing? I need to know before I can crush it. In a sense, it is not so much "the" relationship that I am crushing, but instead, the power it has over me. I have myself in my eyes now because I take the courage to stand strong. I will no longer be weak and use the "relationship" as a crutch. It is crushed, my father continues as before, and I am BORN!

Steve

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 07:41:15 PM »
BRAVO----- Steve. What a wonderful voice you have.               Love   Ami


(((((((((((((Steve)))))))))))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

finding peace

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 08:00:46 PM »
Hi Steve,

Just wanted to say that I love your posts. 

I am heading towards the same place I think - haven't quite gotten there. 

We are masters of our destiny - in all ways.  It is up to us to determine how we perceive our reality. 

I think as children, life is so much out of our control, we carry this with us to adulthood – not knowing that it does not have to be this way.  In a sense we are trained reactionaries instead of actionaries.

An analogy I often think of is the movie the Matrix.  I am coming to believe that in a lot of ways life is like the Matrix.  So often we go through life living a program that has been created for us.  It isn’t until we begin to read the code that we start to break free, and ultimately, I hope, begin to bend reality (in our minds) to how we want to perceive it.

There is a quote in the Matrix by a little boy.  He is bending a spoon with his mind and he is speaking to Neo – he says:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. 
There is no spoon.
Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

I love this quote, it encapsulates to me that everything we see, how we think, how we feel – all are within our control.  It is up to us what we do with it.

Peace


« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 08:12:40 PM by finding peace »
- Life is a journey not a destination

Hopalong

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 12:44:55 AM »
 :D :D :D :D

Boy, when you get it you really get it, Steve.

Kudos and new happiness to you!

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 07:20:22 AM »
Dear Steve,
  .I think that you and I are at a similar place in our healing.
  I am ready to face the truth about my life and myself--whatever that truth is. I never would(or could) face it before. When I chose to deny my perceptions at age 14, I got sicker and sicker. Peck writes about this in his second book. He says that there is always a  lie that is the foundation for all the others. Once you chose to believe that first lie, you get sicker and sicker as you keep taking on new lies. At some point, you are a "mess". You are living in a fantasy world of lies. They are piled high. You could be 'emotionally, physically or mentally ill (or all three). By the time that you are a "mess", you have taken on so many lies that you are buried. This is where I was when I found the board. I have faced many of them .I am almost down to the bottom with my M.It took me a year( and Vaknin's book) to face how my M really is. Little by little I faced all the mini -shocks until I am almost at the end.
 This is how we heal( according to Peck). Also, the Bible says ,"You shall know the truth and the truth will MAKE you free". The "truth" is the healer.all we have to do is face it, the truth ,in itself, heals us.
  I think that you are expressing truth about your F and how you internalized him---in your life.
  You have faced many truths ,already. You are seeing that your F and his influence does not have to be INSIDE you. It can be outside you. You are seeing that it is a choice for you ---who and what you let in to your mind.
  You are seeing that you can be a separate person from him. He is getting smaller and smaller in your mind.you and your own power are getting bigger and bigger.
  I think that you are taking your power back from where you "sent "it as Caroline Myss  would say. She talks about how we send our power out from us and then get "sick". In order to heal, we need to call it back. I bet that you would love her, Steve.
  Steve, thank you for writing.It is always a delight for  many people when you share with us. Love to You   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

steve

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 11:46:28 AM »
Ami

Thanks for your kind words, they are much appreciated and enjoyed.

You speak of me meeting these writers that you speak of, but more than all I would rather meet you. You are of more interest to ME, than they are, because you have experienced and felt things that I have. Together we could share something, from them I could only gain knowledge. You as a person are more important than any idea.

This is where I would like to make a clarification in what you wrote. You speak of me seeing a truth, a truth about my father. Or perhaps, it is a truth about our relationship. Or perhaps it is a truth about the power of the relationship.

But I beg to differ. Instead, what I see are untruths, for truths are nothing but absolutes, and as such they make us slaves. Do not look for truths but instead look for yourself. If you search for ideas, they become more important than you. They take on a power. If you want to face truths, you are just setting up another "ghost" that will rule you. No, just look at yourself, ask of yourself, and most important ask yourself. Do not ask others, but take information from them as you please. But in the end, you need to put yourself at the center, make yourself the ultimate valuation, and make all untruths answerable to yourself.

For when the untruth is ultimately face to face with myself, it is an unworthy opponent. It can never defeat me, I can only defeat myself. All untruths are nothing but fodder, and they can only have value for me in how I choose and nothing more. If they have a temporary value for me, I make them my own, and when they no longer serve me, I toss them away. The important thing is that I own them and do with them as I will.

When I, and I mean the very capital I, stand before any untruths, I see a power of infinite proportions. There is no entity, no power, nothing other than myself that has any value. The untruths are like a speck of dust in a forgotten corner of the universe. They are for me to do as I wish, they are my own, I possess them, they do not possess me.

So, all you need to do is see yourself. See your body, your mind, your emotions, or anything else that is you. Bring yourself to revelation and declare to yourself (no need to declare it to anyone else, because that is superfluous) that you exist and that you are the most important thing to yourself. Everything else must bow down before you and become your servant.

This may sound dark and ominous, but it need not be so. We are animals, but we are also intelligent animals. In all our naturalness, we are not really that terrible, that dark, that cruel, like some would have you believe. We are what we are and there is no doubt that the social is also an important part of us. We know how to act and we know how to behave almost instinctively. Some do it better than others. There are aberrations, the psychopaths for example, but they are just that, exceptions. We must deal with them as we have to. But in general, we enjoy being with others, we enjoy experiencing them, we enjoy consuming them. And to do this we must act in ways that brings us that enjoyment. Again, some do it better than others, but I will place confidence in one thing. Those who have themselves squarely between their eyes certainly do not become delusional. They act in the most proper steps. They are not led by their ideas and fantasies but instead are led by themselves, that person, that individual, who is just as unique as anyone else, and that individual is all of you and the ultimate importance.

So find that person again, throw off all your clamping shells, bring yourself out and proclaim to yourself, I am it, I am the most important, everything I come in to contact needs to pass through my value function. When you do this you no longer get caught us in the illusions of fame, of success, of recognition, of acknowledgement, of praise. For all that is hollow, because at the end of anything that may exist or happen, ultimately the only judgement that matters is mine. And I see myself as "perfect" and so it is. I will make errors no doubt, and I will learn, but I can not be any more than I am at this point in time. I accept myself totally and unconditionally!

Steve

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 01:47:27 PM »
Dear Steve,
 You post has so much of value to offer me.I love to see your name on the list of posters. I think that where we differ is that I believe that the Bible is the absolute truth. For me, I want to shed all beliefs that do not line up with the Bible and put them on the garbage heap.
  For me, I have so many lies and distortions to shed . Under them all is "me" as God made me. I must love myself if I am to follow the Bible. I am insulting God to think of myself poorly. He loved me enough to suffer greatly for me. I am throwing it all back in His face when I reject myself.
  The love story between God and me(us) is the greatest love story. No man or person could love me(us) the way that He did.
  When I suffer so badly from my M, I am not "following" God  in the right way. I am putting what my M said about me in front of what God said.
  So, for me I am trying to undo the brainwashing from my M.
  WE have a different central "core " belief. I hope that we can still learn and share with each other. I value your contribution so very much                  Love   Ami
 
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

steve

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 08:45:38 AM »
Ami

I think your religious beliefs cause you a great deal of difficulty. So, instead of trying to point those out I will use them as a tool, and perhaps this will help you also use that tool.

Jesus said that Gad loves everyone, both sinners and non-sinners alike. That to be good was not a reward to heaven and that we should love all just the same. Taking the teachings of the bible then, and I mean some deep profound teachings as opposed to the pathetic remarks of a few monks, we see that Jesus was saying that we should not judge, we should not hate, we should love all, even if they are evil in our eyes.

Initially this may cause you a dilemma, as if you are to turn the other cheek always and to keep being abused. But I differ in this conclusion. Go on loving everyone just as before, love those who are good to you and love those who hurt you. If you are a true believer of the bible, you have to do this. And this may seem difficult for those of us who are continuously abused. But you have stated that this is your intention.

But now, here comes the insight. Yes, I would say to you, go on loving that person that hurt you, but now, separate that person from the relationship. Look at that relationship as a distinct entity and hate that relationship. Crush it and make it disappear in its present form. Do not look at your M as a confluence of both person and relationship. The relationship is malignant and can be forsaken but the person is extent and you can love them. Blame the relationship, and the nice part is that it can be whatever you wish it to be, but continue on loving as you believe. In this manner you can keep your faith and more importantly, keep your sanity also.

The basic premise of my argument is that we can let that hurt disappear without having to let the person go. I hope this helps,

Steve

Hopalong

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 10:17:23 AM »
Magnificent thinking, Steve:

Quote
go on loving that person that hurt you, but now, separate that person from the relationship. Look at that relationship as a distinct entity and hate that relationship. Crush it and make it disappear in its present form.


I only disagree with your next conclusion, the hopeful one about not letting the person go. You've been able to do this with your father, but many many victims of Ns may have a different conclusion.

I think about this as in NEVER seeing a person again when it's necessary for your sanity and wellbing, or maintaining NC (as we say here, No Contact) for as long as it's right. In some cases, that may mean forever.

In a sermon on forgiveness that changed my life, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in S. Africa was discussed. But the minister took care to point out that forgiveness does not have to mean reconciliation [IOW, contact]. It can take place solely within us, when NC is necessary. And that's okay.

In my personal opinion, I think Ami has healed more with NC than anything else. In some cases, any contact at all for some time (and in some cases, permanently) is so toxic to the mind that it must be simply closed out. Like you would avoid venom, or some other natural thing. You don't hate nature because it includes rattlesnakes, you're just better off if you spend your time with a friendly dog.

Thanks for this wonderful contribution, Steve.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2007, 10:57:52 AM »
]But now, here comes the insight. Yes, I would say to you, go on loving that person that hurt you, but now, separate that person from the relationship. Look at that relationship as a distinct entity and hate that relationship. Crush it and make it disappear in its present form. Do not look at your M as a confluence of both person and relationship. The relationship is malignant and can be forsaken but the person is extent and you can love them.



Brilliant, as always, my  friend.                            Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2007, 11:02:03 AM »
Dear Hops,
  Thank you for caring so much about me. I am still NC and you are right that I need to be.
  Hops,I can "forgive" her ,but cannot have any contact with her b/c she is like an actual poison .
  In theory, a person who is so "centered" and together COULD deal with her BUT that is not me.
                                 Love    Ami
 (((((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Leah

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2007, 11:16:30 AM »


Quote
Jesus said that Gad loves everyone, both sinners and non-sinners alike. That to be good was not a reward to heaven and that we should love all just the same. Taking the teachings of the bible then, and I mean some deep profound teachings as opposed to the pathetic remarks of a few monks, we see that Jesus was saying that we should not judge, we should not hate, we should love all, even if they are evil in our eyes.


Dear Steve,

Wonderful insightful posting - truly a breath of fresh air!

All my life, I was held captive and bound by the teaching of "Thou Shalt Not Judge"

Until a couple of years ago, when I read and discovered what Jesus was ACTUALLY saying .... please allow me to gracefully share;

"Judge not, that you may be not judged" ... (Matthew 7:1-6)

Which actually means "Condemn not, that you may not be condemned"

Quite true, for I am not a JUDGE

A Judge in a court of law weighs up the facts - discerns what is false and what is true - then delivers Judgement as he condemns as is necessary.

However, Jesus was pointing out that there is only one Judge - God.

Here Jesus warned against condemning the actions or motives of others.  Only God has the right to condemn since only He has the full knowledge of a person's actions or motives.  (John 5:22, Romans 14:4,10).


On the other hand, He has commanded us to "judge righteous judgement" (John 7:24) to Discern and Decide (to recognize) with wisdom; what is false, and harmful to our mind, body and soul - our wellbeing.

We are to judge; to discern, to weigh up what is right or wrong, in all matters, and then with knowledgeable wisdom, decide whether or not it is necessary to avoid those who are involved. 

But, we must not condemn - God will do that.


I graciously thank you for my voice.

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Leah

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2007, 11:30:42 AM »

Forgiveness in one's heart for another truly brings with it a precious gift of inner peace and serenity.

As we forgive so we are forgiven also.  Such peace.

The opposite is true:  Root of Bitterness, which takes hold and damages the body, mind and soul.  My NM won't ever forgive anyone and her body has continually worsened over the years with ill health of which I have no doubt was birthed by Bitterness.  A few years ago I implored her to forgive someone which fell upon 'deaf ears' and a 'hard heart'


All my transgressors have my forgiveness and the gift of peace and serenity in my heart truly is so very precious to me.

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

steve

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2007, 11:34:03 AM »
When I say you can accept and live with the person that has hurt you, it follows from coming to that conclusion. You can also decide to distance yourself entirely and that is probably very healthy in many cases. In my case, I have decided to maintain contact and this is how I will proceed from this point forward.

As for the religious angles, I was just trying to make the case appropriate for Ami. I do not look to the bible or any religion for guidance, but I am still willing to soak up any knowledge or insight they may have.

Steve

Ami

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Re: Acceptance Again
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2007, 11:48:46 AM »
Thank you so much for that Leah.                    Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung