I "Forgive" Too Easily

[Gabben]

Hops, I see what you mean.  You don't have to let your love for someone allow them to abuse you.   I have 'loved' all of the Ns I've known for their good qualities and everyone of them has had them, otherwise there would never have been any kind of relationship in the first place.  I can STILL love their good qualities to this day, but it will be from arm's length or farther away.  I think the saying has a lot of validity as a 'test' though.  If all you get from someone is hurt they clearly don't love you and you shouldn't waste much love, if any, on them.  I think it's a good test to do every once in awhile, esp if you have a 'history.'

   One of the hardest issues for me is that I continue to like someone for their good qualities, despite all the jerky things they have done.  I have an ex house mate who is very N and has wanted to stay in touch for the last 20+ years.  I never initiate anything and I cringe every time he calls because I'm very conflicted, but he truly has some likable qualities and I'm not good at rejection.  He doesn't have a small clue about what a jerk he is to people close to him though.   He just got divorced (second marriage) from a very sweet person.  He can list a dozen reasons why the marriage didn't work and everyone last of them was her fault.  The truth was almost the exact reverse. His fragile sense of self can't handle the slightest defect on his part.  I figure I can handle seeing him briefly about once a year and that's what I do.

Bill

Bill,

I think it is wonderful that can see through the N's lies but still stay objective and focus on their good. In the St Francis prayer it says that we are to seek to understand rather than be understood, seek to love rather than to be love etc.. This conflicts with my earlier saying of "don't ever love something that won't love you back."  It is a catch 22 with the N. But I think you have found a way to be accepting, although you know that you don't have to be.
You seem to be able to set good limits and not set your self up. In AA, the Big Book, it says whenever you make decisions based on self you place yourself in a postion to be hurt.

Earlier I said that I have a part in the situation with my N saint therapist and then you said something to the effect that N's are predators. I believe my part in the situation with the saint N therapist was my blind willingness to believe that she could give me the kind of mom respect that I missed out on. I was believing a lie because of my own disillusionments - that was my part. However, I was not aggressive or exploitive or hurtful -  no never.

Lise

[wiltay]

Lise, I learned about setting limits very painfully.  It took many many lessons.  I think I'm only just being able to get a handle on my vulnerabilities and not allow them to be exploited by N-ish people.   IME it's dangerous to 'focus on their good" because then you forget how twisted they really are and before you know it you're regretting it.   I think that basically this type of person is just not good to be around very much.  I agree so much that one must not search for the parent they never had in other people.  This is what I've done myself.  That is when you make yourself so vulnerable to exploitation by an N.   
Bill

[Ami]

Dear Lise and Bill,
  I agree that the "hook-in' for problems is wanting our parent in everyone-----bleh.                   Ami

[Gabben]

I can thank my lucky stars that he still feels 'compassion' for me though!

What, I'm confused, and N feeling compassion...are you being facetious or am I missing something again?

[wiltay]

I'm sorry Lise, I was being facetious, it's the problem with email.  His 'compassion' for me is only a show for other people to manipulate them into seeing things the way he wants them to see it.  He's just playing the saint.

Bill