Author Topic: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM  (Read 6232 times)

mary87

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2007, 06:46:15 AM »
Silent Witnesses are bystanders who do not actively participate in any way, either to  support the aggression or to stop it. Usually, they feel powerless or fearful to help. Many wind up struggling with guilt for their inaction and may find it difficult to make peace within themselves long after the aggression has stopped

To Leah and Lighter - I am sorry this is has happened to you.  I stand as a silent witness also.

Ami

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2007, 07:32:06 AM »
I jumped in in a situation between two people to TRY to be a help for the situation. My point was that in any situation involving people, each person's role is to look at himself
  Is that a type of violation in any way?
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Leah

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Re: What's in a Game?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2007, 08:01:04 AM »
IT'S  ALL  in  the  GAME


Relational Aggression

Relational Aggression, also known as covert bullying, social aggression or female bullying, is a psychological and emotional form of abuse, hiding behind a smokescreen of lies and manipulation. Relational aggression uses relationships to inflict injury upon another. It's characterized by gossip, teasing, slander and exclusion.

It is mean and cruel.

Contrary to common misconception, relational aggression is not exclusive to females. It mirrors the manipulative political philosophy of 15th century Niccolo Machiavelli, who many herald as a political genius, and whose practice is still alive and well among many areas of our culture.

It is not a girl thing. But it is a problem in female relationships (and male, though they may be experienced somewhat differently).



Principle Players of Relational Aggression

Aggressors are those who use a relationship or relationships as a weapon, to bully, intimidate, control and/or punish a targeted person. The aggressor can be an acquaintance of the target or a dear friend. She can be a long-standing enemy or a new rival.

Targets are the ones who stand in the line of fire. They are often the aggressor’s peer, however, relational aggression can cross all socioeconomic and cultural lines, as well as race, age and sex. No one is afforded automatic immunity.

Collaborators are those who actively join the aggressor, to whatever degree. They can start out as active participants and co-instigators, or they can be, initially, bystanders who are drawn into the drama of relational aggression. They are the relationships through which the aggressor channels most of her negativity toward the target.

Silent Witnesses are bystanders who do not actively participate in any way, either to  support the aggression or to stop it. Usually, they feel powerless or fearful to help. Many wind up struggling with guilt for their inaction and may find it difficult to make peace within themselves long after the aggression has stopped.

Enablers are a unique group of bystander, who carry some kind of authority or status within their social network. They can make a difference by virtue of their standing, but don’t. For whatever reasons, they choose to look away or trivialize what little they’re willing to see. This behavior often serves to legitimize the relational aggression, and so in this sense, enablers are not only bystanders but indirect collaborators.



Basic Anatomy

The Drawn Back Bow: Something is said or shared with a third party - a rumor, an assertion, an accusation, a biting remark. It is the springboard from which the damage is done, the precipitating event that becomes the excuse or reason. It can be true or untrue. What matters is the purpose for which it is used.

The Arrow: It affects others - how they look at you and treat you. It's what aggressors hurt you with. Not the information or rumor, itself, as much as the affect it has on other people and their subsequent relationship with you.

The Wound: It affects you - the pain you feel, how you feel about others and how you feel about yourself, as a result of other people's treatment of you. The wound can be little or big. It can be brushed off or eventually healed. For some, it can last a lifetime.

That's why, when someone tells you it doesn't matter what someone else thinks and admonishes you to rise above it, they miss the point, because it's not about someone's opinion or words.

It's about relationships and other people's behavior, because of someone's opinion or words. Sometimes you can walk away. Many times you can't.

This is what relational aggression is all about - inflicting damage through other people.

The rumors and accusations are just a means to that end. Whether childish or serious,  true or false or somewhere in between, rumors and accusations are designed to elicit an emotional response from others, with the intention to incite them to hurt you, in some way.

Relational aggression, also, involves more physical abuse, such as "accidental body slams", taunting, teasing, censuring, alienating, and other means to cause the suffering of another person.

The key trait is that whatever methods are used, it is done in concert with and through others.


Relational aggression affects and hurts everyone - aggressor, target, collaborator and witness, alike.

But bear in mind, relational aggression isn't so much about a specific person, a "bitch" we love to hate, as much as a state of mind; a set of choices we all can make. The roles described above are fluid. It's so easy to go from target to aggressor or silent witness to collaborator in just one breath of a choice.

So be mindful of your choices and make them wisely.


Source: http://www.relationalaggression.net/





Grateful thanks that there are those lurking, albeit cautious to speak out, which is understandable, who have rightly seen the game that has been played here.  Grateful for the knowledge and awareness.

Truth is, I know what is the truth is, of the whole scenario.

All I did, which in hindsight, I regret taking the time and trouble to do ---  was add an article of good knowledge to a thread 'skills/how to'

And I did offer to delete the post, as someone else, of good standing, has frequently suggested to do, for me and for others.

The Lies and Betrayal from someone whom I had supported as a friend, has hurt me, as I am a real person. 

Recently, I have received several affirmative life building uplifting and encouraging postings.  In particular, the one from Lise and from Hops in response to my having truly forgiven my parents, with Hops genuinely saying that she was in awe.

Such precious pearls so sweet with dew to my soul.

Why can't I keep that?

I don't have an anger issue, but I do see the hidden anger related depression here among my friends, and truly, my heart reaches out with sincerity and genuineness.

All threads and posts, I give of my time to read carefully, and post as I feel I am able to contribute, with sincere support and thoughtfulness.


Please, I implore you, all here, do not work to undo all that has been done to date in my recovery and healing process.

After all the years of hard work and labour, singlehandly, researching and studying, seeking and finding, working through, and finally, reaching my rainbows end.

In the New Year I have plans to step out with a purpose on my new pathway wearing my new pair of shoes.

Please, don't make me dig out my old pair of shoes, or, make me wear your pair of shoes --- because they won't fit me.

Please, don't invalidate me as a person, who is standing with a heart of sincere liberty and freedom, who feels an inner peace, with calm and joy.

Please, allow me to be me, Leah, I have waited patiently for years, in hope, of finding me.

Thank you.

God Bless You All and guide you

as He has wonderfully guided me.


No-one can ever take that away from me.


Sincerely yours,

Love, Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

CB123

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2007, 08:10:01 AM »
Love you, Leah.

I have watched you grow so much.  You will grow.  You will wear those new shoes--you will DANCE in them!

Every interaction with every person is another chance to grow.  Take it and RUN with it.

Love,
CB

When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

JanetLG

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2007, 08:18:59 AM »
Leah,

You have every right to work towards being yourself. I hope your 'new shoes' get worn in quickly, and that your 'old shoes' can get thrown to the back of the wardrobe, to lurk among the dust-bunnies! (But then, I bet you don't have dust-bunnies - I do  :( )

I don't want to see this forum go through the traumatic cycle again that it seems to, every few months or so. It is so draining, so hurtful, and so unnecessary. Everyone here has been hurt in the past, and we all need to be given the space to have our 'voice'.

Keep that feeling of inner peace, Leah. It's taken you years to find, and you should never have to let it go again.

Janet

lighter

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2007, 11:25:50 AM »
Leah.... you don't have to put on those old shoes.

You can instead ask yourself why someone is acting or speaking the way they are.....

be glad you're not in that space.....

and continue down you path..... shiny new shoes a tappin: )

People do better when they can.

I love your spirit and it pains me to see you struggle like this.

You can't save people from themselves.....

 they have to do it for themselves.....

I forgot that lesson, myself.



(((Peace)))  I'm not sure I understand why you apologized..... just sorry to see you go.

Come back soon.



Leah

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2007, 11:40:03 AM »
Dear Lighter,

Thank you, but, rest assured, in all honesty, I am not in any pain and peace is truly mine.

And my heart has never ever tried to to save people from themselves, honestly.

Believe me, with my voluntary work training and experience to date I have a proven track record of awareness of the difference.

Peace apologized in context of the entire thread, as she saw and acknowledged a 'Bystander' role which she turned round to one of a commendable witness offering compassionate insightful support with integrity.

As did Mary also.

May I take this opportunity to sincerely thank ((( Peace ))) and ((( Mary ))) for your sight and wisdom and graciousness.

Truly very much appreciated and has been a precious reinstating source of validation to me as a person.

Love, Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Gabben

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2007, 12:23:01 PM »
Hi Leah,

I have to say I feel really confused. It seems that I am being portrayed as a covert aggressor here?

It hit me last night why you might have thought that my thread: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM

was an underhanded play...first because it is in bold letters (you mentioned that it was in bold letter twice and I could not figure out what you were trying to say), well if you look in the link you will see that the article is titled:

SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM is titled in bold and I cut and past it directly into the subject line.

The other thing that hit me is that we had a recent scuffle on the board so I figured you were feeling sensitive and perhaps were reading into my behavior with my posts that perhaps I was passively directing something to you? NOT - as I said before, after I said immediately -- "I am sorry if I hurt you." I moved on and was focusing on NOT persuing any actions despite my feelings and perceptions.

I love this article: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM -- I had been reading it and studying it for few days before hand because it related to MY own personal life and parents. I like to share things that have helped me an brought some relief to my life - that was my motive.

Also, I posted it because of this line in particular:
"Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in awful bills." Minna Antrim -- I thought others would enjoy that too. Perhaps when I post I should explain my motives so that people won't perceive that I am trying to say something to them?

Having an N mom, my childhood was all about "them." And like you Leah my parents were hostile and WERE out to get me. It sometimes has the effect of perceiving the world as attacking and aggressive. Especially if I am feeling sensitive because someone had recently criticized me, such as I had been critical of you...but that does not make me a covert aggressor.
 
You may recall from my story Leah that I was verbally abused for a good deal of my childhood. By the time I hit my teens I could no longer take it. I tried to stand up for myself and I expressed my hurt and anger at my moms rages and verbal assaults - what happend?

I was thrown in Juvy hall and taken to a mental hospital because my mom was claiming that I was mentally ill and abusive.

I guess I am still in the hole reliving that drama, just trying to work through it and I know that under my anger, which as I said before is just a defense to try to control my pain, is an intense about of hurt that I face and keep facing. My favorite saying these days has been the tears will wash my eyes so that I can see better...So I can see that the world is NOT out to get me.

Once again, I think you are OK Leah and I think I am OK -- just the way we are.

I ask people on this board not to portray me as a covert aggressor or bully...because I am NOT one and it hurts.

Peace,
Lise




« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 12:30:16 PM by Gabben »

Leah

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2007, 12:35:05 PM »
Dear Lise,

You have incorrectly perceived my reason for typing 'capitals used' as in SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM.

As my only reason was to convey that the capitals were already in use, nothing more than that, simply a standard procedure.

Otherwise, it could be misconstrued or perceived quite wrongly that I was 'shouting' in my post.

Certainly not a reference to your choice of using capitals in the title of your thread.

Remember, we are engaging in written form.

Hope that helps clarify.

Sincerely yours,

Leah

« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 12:48:37 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

lighter

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2007, 12:38:25 PM »
Leah:  I had the feeling you were pretty well settled in your thoughts..... and feeling secure in them.  

Glad to hear it.


Gabben

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2007, 12:44:40 PM »
Leah:  I had the feeling you were pretty well settled in your thoughts..... and feeling secure in them.  

Glad to hear it.




I also ask people not to portray me as mentally unstable and insecure - because I am NOT that either. That underhand remark hurt too :(

Thank you.


Leah

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2007, 12:51:08 PM »
Dear Lise,

Most certainly, I don't perceive that at all.

I understood Lighter's post to be in response to the responsive post that I had made much earlier.

That is my perception and understanding.

Love, Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

lighter

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2007, 12:59:14 PM »
Leah:  I had the feeling you were pretty well settled in your thoughts..... and feeling secure in them.  

Glad to hear it.




I also ask people not to portray me as mentally unstable and insecure - because I am NOT that either. That underhand remark hurt too :(

Thank you.





Gabben... Please ask for clarification about something before making assumptions, K?  

I didn't have any underhanded meaning intended in that post, I promise.

It was meant for Leah and for Leah only.

Her comments about her shoes concerned me.  

She provided clarification.

 I acknowledged it.

Sometimes that's all there is to a post but I can appreciate misunderstandings in the wake of board drama.

Give me a shot at just treating you like any newcomer to the board.... bc that's exactly what I intend to do.  


This board has a lot to offer everyone and I'd like to extend a warm welcome to you now.

Welcome Gabben.  




Gabben

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2007, 01:16:18 PM »
Hi Lighter,

Thanks for the welcome. I do not believe you and I have really had a chance to talk or meet yet?

Yes, your comment was directed at Leah but don't we all read this board and is this not a hot thread in terms of some emotions running high?? My common sense tells me to tread very carefully in the wake of such high emotions and sensitivy, correct? Perhaps giving some consideration to all involved in the situation...I think that if anyone checks their gut they will see that I have not been passive but rather extremely direct.

I had just spilled my guts out in a previous post above and the only response from you is a one liner to Leah without even an acknowledgement to me. Not that you owe me that, but I AM here.  

It is clear that there are sides being taken -- that also hurts.

I think that if people look closely that will see that I have been forth right and direct to Leah. I have been upfront and honest, as well as kind and WARM...I was taught by a loving boyfriend that it is OK to fight, nothing wrong with it -- but fight fair...no cheap shots.

I'm glad to meet you Lighter I hope that we can get better acquainted and overcome any past stuff...you are here to heal and grow too, I'm sure you know hurt and pain. I have not read your story but when I get a chance I will, if it is posted.

Lise





lighter

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Re: SKILLS FOR DEALING WITH NARCISSISM
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2007, 02:03:44 PM »
Gabben: 
 

I'm sorry if I made you feel attacked or ignored.

I'm stepping past the old stuff and I'd like you to come with, K?

BTW.... you'd be surprised at how folks line up here, with regard to opinions and intensity of feeling.

There aren't 2 sides aligned against each other, though that might have been what was represented to you or seemed the case. 

The same people don't always agree and this past stuff isn't going to happen anymore..... though there will be new differences to take it's place: /

The adventure continues....