Author Topic: For Newbies and Oldbies  (Read 6473 times)

Hopalong

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For Newbies and Oldbies
« on: December 12, 2007, 05:44:33 PM »
Hi everyone,

I am reflecting that perhaps when there is a subject on the board that arose and belongs between two posters, it might be better if it remains between them. In public. In safety. I know there are no "rules" (other than the essential civility and good intention that Doc G ensures...when we fail to). So this is just a thought:

I'm thinking, for example, that if anyone wanted to express understanding and support to either person involved, they might do so privately. Then the two would have the safety of speaking to each other --or not -- (or about each other, as necessary) in this public space, with friends around them...but there wouldn't be the flame-fanning, leaping-to-defense-of, slicing-dicing, victim! bully! accusations, whether using "real" board names or Anonymice, that have occured so egregiously here. I have found the religion-slinging the most unfortunate aspect...Bible verses don't make good spears, imo, and aggressive displays of piety just register as aggression. And often self-righteousness. (We never used to have so muuuuuch piety, here. But with each new group, things do change.)

The people in conflict could work their way to a solution in the safety of the public space. That solution could be No Contact (that can be a wise and responsible choice, depending on what you're dealing with -- how often do we cheer each other on to be strong enough to stay disengaged in our own lives?), a new negotiated boundary, full resolution and ease of all tension, or something else. That's up to them. Personally, I avoid a lot of PMing because to me, I can suddenly feel isolated and "dragged under the stairs" so I'm very cautious about who I trust in that space.

True colors shine, and some intuitive impressions may get confirmed when there's a fight.

I feel badly for new people who urgently need the support of this place, or a place like this, and who may be lurking horrified at the immaturity and lack of restraint displayed in so many posts. And thus, take their feelings of voicelessness away, and lose the hope of participating here. To them, I apologize. (Please revisit us. The board goes through changes and has a core kindness and generosity that can still be there for you.)

I don't think that wit or education or verbal agility relate to character. Nor do volume of posts.

I love this board, and hope that some humility (please don't describe how humble you are) could do a lot to restore the positive atmosphere that normally characterizes this sweet space.

love to all in this roiling season,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

tayana

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 05:50:38 PM »
Hops,

I agree with you, and I'm glad that you made this post.

When I rejoined the board, as I was preparing for a formal break from my FOO, I found this to be a wonderfully supportive place.  I'm not sure I could have gotten through some of the situations that I've gotten through without the wonderful folks here.

Not long after I moved though, the board changed and became a place where I was cautious about posting.  I've noticed it seems a lot of threads erupt in mud-slinging and flames lately.  It makes me very sad, and I'm often reluctant to post at all. 

I do hope this board returns to the wonderful, positive place that was so supportive when I didn't have anyone else to support me.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

reallyME

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 06:18:22 PM »
Hops, I still say, if you're ever in the market for it, you'd make an AWESOME Christian or...maybe even an attorney :)

I LOVE this board, even in spite of mudslinging, naysaying, verbal attacks, martrydom, heroism, satire...it's all so very HUMAN and refreshing!

~Laura

Leah

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Thank You Dr. Grossman
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 06:27:43 PM »


With sincerity, I would like to convey my heartfelt thanks to Dr Richard Grossman for this board

for his time and dedication in making it possible for so many members, visitors, and guests - worldwide

to have a place of expression, with freedom, and with respect, of  Voicelessness and Emotional Survival.


Which, personally, has given me the opportunity to voice my 'new pair of shoes' in which I presently stand

and to receive precious affirmation and validation as a human being, me, Leah.


Sincerely, a big "Thank You"

This space is very much valued and appreciated.


Gratefully,

Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

changing

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 06:37:56 PM »
Thank You Dr. Grossman-

I believe that this board has literally saved my life. I am extremely grateful for what you have done to provide this resource and could never thank you enough. It continues to be a lifeline for me and I never take it for granted. And thank you to the many people who have helped me go through so much. Some of us, like me, have very little in the way of traditional social support in tackling serious problems. This board makes all of the difference to us.You are so very important and so much appreciated.

Love,

Changing

Gabben

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 08:47:18 PM »
Hi Hops,

As a newbie on this board I have some learning to do here. As I read your post I heard your dissapointment, or frustration or some emotions, I can tell the whole thing (not going to bring it up) was uncomfortable to you. I want to acknowledge your feelings and let you know that I am sorry for any pain I caused you. I'm not admitting wrong I am just saying that I've got some growing to do...perhaps one day I'll change my name to "meek" from "gabben", doubtful though.


I understand that you are not religious and I respect that. I also realize that strong religious piety can be uncomfortable to others. What may seem strong to you though is only a inkling to me. However, I will walk the tight rope of consideration to others as best as I can when approaching the subject of my faith, without censoring myself -- because I know that that is not what you are saying.

Lessons learned today, with love,

Thanks,
Lise

 

reallyME

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 09:02:34 PM »
Lise, I love the way you put that..."walk the tightrope of consideration" when it comes to other's faiths...not me...I tend to hang out on the trapeze, dangling frequently in front of people saying "look at me...I'm a follower of the Lord...don't you want to know Him too?" as I swing back n forth.

I am learning how to be content on a more stationary aparatus lately though.

smiles,
~Laur

Overcomer

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 09:40:49 PM »
Good thread Hops.  I love hearing sane input when I need it.  Sometimes I am just out there and need people to tell me to step back or when they tell me "good job!"  As for my faith-it is there.  Like when I thought we were gonna crash at the Dallas airport-I WAS PRAYING!  My mom shoved it down my throat so I had to figure it out ALL BY MYSELF with no pushing.  I feel it.  I got comfort knowing my MIL is now in heaven.  I hate the fighting but I really do love the people!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Hopalong

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 09:56:00 PM »
Thank you, everybody, for the wit and grace.

(Got a dog story for you, Bean, coming right up.)

xxoo all,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Leah

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 10:03:02 PM »
Helpful Reminder List --- for Newbies and Oldies


Abusers can be masters of disguise and covert operations. He or She hones their skills to expert precision, lest people see through the mask to the ruthless ambition and envy beneath.

Above all, the abuser seeks to keep that mask firmly in place so as not to lose the support of those who've been fooled by the outer facade.
 
This list of characteristics describes abusers and gives an awareness of the techniques used by * chameleons * who may be male or female


1. Charming in public -  exuding warmth and charm, an abuser smiles and tells jokes, praises and flatters you, outwardly supports you with a show of approval and reassurance, makes you feel valuable and appears to be  attentive to your needs.

2. Rumor-monger in private -   criticizing you behind your back, he may suggest that you have personal or emotional problems, carefully building a case against you via calculated misinformation passed on to others behind the scenes. He manipulates others into criticizing you and then rewards them for their participation in his plot to undermine your image in every way.

3. Two-faced  -  He pretends to support you while planning to destroy you; then when you challenge him, he suddenly transforms from supportive to bullying. His soft-spoken manner hides his destructive intentions, his flattering words hide his desire to control you, and  his seemingly warm personality hides his take-no-prisoners attitude.

4. Distorts truth and reality -  He misleads people by omitting key facts. He's extremely concerned to preserve an appearance of integrity, all the while withholding significant information. He misleads people by omitting key facts, he quotes hearsay as important and authoritative, then, justifies his opinion by falsely claiming others think the same way.

Master of the half-truth, he miss-states and belittles your viewpoint, asks questions that demean you, then interrupts before you can fully respond, he changes the subject before you can correct his miss-statements, then he adds new false accusations faster than you can respond to the old ones.

5. Hypocritical - His spoken philosophy and behavior don't match, his words creating a positive image which does not match his actions. He describes his mistakes as minor, but your mistakes as serious, or ignores his own mistakes while always highliting yours.  - He calmly demeans you, but is angry because you don't respect him. Not respecting him = pointing out the inconguities and inconsistencies between who he claims to be and what he actually does and says.

6. Evasive - He acts confused by any complaint about his behavior and always shifts the focus to others. He acts like he is the one who is being victimized. He tries to make you feel guilty for hurting him, accusing you of behavior that was far worse than his and asserting that you are the cause of his bad behavior (if he ever does admit to behaving badly).

7. Pompous  - He acts like a know-it-all and never apologizes, unless to prove how rarely he makes a mistake.  He's a prima donna ... condescending in words, tone of voice and mannerisms. Every issue which effects him is high drama and he'll try to demolish the opposition in every discussion to keep the focus on himself.

8. Self-righteous - In order to disguise his corrupt character, he always claims the moral and ethical high ground. He brags about the goodness of his own character while suggesting that others have dubious motives.  He frequently talks of his superior ethical standards, implying that others don't have his high standards and using distorted examples to prove that others are not nearly as superior as he.


9. Obsessed with image - He believes that his image is more important than reality, so he disguises his true emotions and desires. When you see beneath his persona, he will suggest that your actions have hurt his image. Alternatively, he says that your proposed actions (i.e., exposing him) will hurt your own image.


10. Passive-aggressive -  He'll keep you in the dark by sulking, instead of confronting issues.

11. Pretends to care -  While pretending to care about others, he is at his most manipulative and dangerous. Most people are taken in by his apparently positive energy, enthusiasm and charisma, but in reality, they are naively being fooled by an attractive personality which hides a morally and ethically corrupt abuser who is coldly and ruthlessly pursuing his own selfish ends.

His expression of affection is tainted with possessiveness and he compliments you only because it serves his purpose. He has a look of concern, but he doesn't truly respect you.

He pretends to be your friend while tearing you down, destroying your reputation, weakening your position, and exaggerating the importance of your mistakes. 


12. Plays the victim - He exaggerates his pain and suffering, trying to make you feel guilty for causing his pain and claiming that you don't appreciate him.     

He becomes angry and indignant when you try to reason with him, then says he is tired of doing all the compromising.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 10:33:19 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

lighter

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2007, 07:01:46 AM »
Leah.... that list made me sigh so hard my lungs hurt :shock:

The list of 12 little things.... pretty much lays out exactly what one comes up against, when they meet the sheep that says
 "wolf wolf."

Leah

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2007, 07:30:09 AM »
Dear Lighter,

The above list is firmly placed in the front of my 'life' folder, as a 'life' resource, as never again, is my heart's cry, do I want to have to be confronted with, and endure, such like behaviour again.

Prefer my friends to be up front 'warts n all' open and honest, as i am with them, and to each say sorry, when we slip up with each other, as we do, we all do as interactive relational healthy human beings.  Mere mortals  :)

Receiving an email, as I shared couple of weeks ago, from a friend of long ago, who apologized for 'dropping me' in the midst of my despair whilst I was in my own DV and A situation, was heartwarming and pure joy as that friendship is renewed, and now the friendship is on a more real level too, as I had keep silent about my suffering prior to refuge.

Wonderful liberating difference.  Today, my view in my real life is 'quality' of real friends, rather than quantity. 

Love, Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Ami

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2007, 08:08:09 AM »
I guess the "point" in all of this (the board) is to find our precious and lost(usually) voice.If we had different FOO's, we would not need a place like the board to find "ourselves". We would HAVE  a strong "self". My Aunt was commenting on a person. My Aunt said that the person  did not have a strong enough sense of self. My Aunt never had therapy  etc. She just had the intuition to KNOW that you MUST have yourself in this world. If not, you are like a plane flying without  radar.
 It is our compass, our sonar.
  Richard allows us to have a "cyberspace" life we we CAN find our voice. That is the goal of the board,as I see it.Everything else is secondary.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

reallyME

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 09:09:35 AM »
CB, in regards to what you shared about my "trapeze act," triggering some people, I want to assure you that I am also a studier of people, and I would not use the same method with someone who was abused spiritually, as I would with simply someone who needed salvation.  Knowing that something bothers someone, the Bible tells us "if it offends...DO NOT DO IT...do not cause a weaker brother to stumble."

I counsel abuse victims, with the main focus having been SPIRITUAL ABUSE.  I would NEVER purposely trigger someone if I knew something I did was causing it.  That's just CRUEL and WRONG.

Blessya,
~Laura

Leah

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Re: For Newbies and Oldbies
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2007, 09:19:16 AM »
Dear Laura,

With regard to your above post may I ask some questions.

>  How would you know that someone who came onto the board had been 'spiritually abused' ?

>  How would you arrive at the knowledge that someone 'needed' salvation ?

>  How would / will someone know that you * speak * as a Pastor ?

>  Have you / do you always give your Pastoral Support to all here on board - regardless of Christian Denomination ?

These, I feel are valid and most important poignant questions.

Thank you

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO